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Old 08-19-2017, 12:10 AM   #11
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Default Re: DEF Adblue Diesel Exhaust Fluid 10 Starts

Quote:
Originally Posted by vnvet View Post
The death of DEF system. 45 mins. later he comes back and says, "your van is really angry"... Oh really ?
Twelve codes, entire SCR system is dead and maybe the CAT also but won't know without replacing all the other parts. $5,299.29 PLUS another $1,700.00 if the CAT is fried...
I find this very hard to believe.

No such thing as "entire system dead".

I think they are preying on folks not truly understanding how the systems work and the publicity that they are trouble prone to bilk you out of thousands.

Since you probably paid for the diagnosis, I would ask for the actual Xentry quick test results printout with the "Freeze Frame" data. Post it here.
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Old 08-19-2017, 06:12 AM   #12
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Default Re: DEF Adblue Diesel Exhaust Fluid 10 Starts

It seems like a number of people reporting the DEF issue have 2014 I4s -- has anyone else noticed this? I'll add myself to that list... I just picked up a 2014 I4 last week and yesterday received the CEL/DEF warning combo. Put in 3.5 gals of Ad Blue today and the light is still on. Also isn't topped off, even after that much fluid. Back to the store tomorrow AM for another jug.
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Old 08-19-2017, 01:04 PM   #13
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Default Re: DEF Adblue Diesel Exhaust Fluid 10 Starts

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Originally Posted by vnvet View Post
The death of DEF system.

Right after my oil change and warm up, the CHK/DEF displayed. Not ever having it display in the ten months and 18,000 miles I've owned it was quite a surprise. The most I ever put in it at any one time to "keep it topped off" was a little over a gallon in 3,000 miles. Of the five gallons I purchased, I had half jug left (1.25G) and put it in thinking that's should do it. Nope.

Went and got another jug (2.5) and put it in. Light still on. Went and got yet another jug. Each and every time I would fill it, the fluid would come up to the cap causing me to think it was full. As I looked at the fill tube closer from above, I then crawled under to examine it and it is apparent that the tube doesn't go straight downward to the tank.
So I moved the van to an steeper incline on the driveway ass down and added one more gallon of the second jug without any gurgling and false indicating it was full by fluid not going all the way into the tank like a fuel filling tube does. Of the second jug, I got about 1/2 of it in or, one gallon. All & all, I added four gallons to the five gallon tank.

OK. Finally full. Needless to say, I was very surprised that there was NO warning I was that low on DEF. And of course, I had other four letter expletive thoughts about MB design to fail engineering.

Drove to work and back and a couple other errands roughly 90+ miles and several starts. CHK/DEF still on so called the dealership and asked WTF ? Serv.Mgr. asked how many miles drove after fluid adding. I told him. He said I needed to drive 100 miles and it would reset. OK....

Next day drove to work another 30+ miles with a another four start/stops on the way. Parked it, light still on. Called dealership again and said it is still on. He asked if I drove it 100 miles without stopping. NO ! He said "you need to do that." I replied, you never said 100 non-stop miles. He replied, oops, my bad, I thought I told you that.... Great.. So I figured I'll leave work early and hit the freeway for the 100.

After that conversation a few minutes later I got back in to park in another location closer to unloading zone. Key on, TEN STARTS.. WTF ? I called him back and told him. He said, oh man, you better get it in here ASAP. Got it in that afternoon and they scoped it.

45 mins. later he comes back and says, "your van is really angry"... Oh really ?
Twelve codes, entire SCR system is dead and maybe the CAT also but won't know without replacing all the other parts. $5,299.29 PLUS another $1,700.00 if the CAT is fried...

The only reason I'm providing this is a warning what one could expect should one have the misfortune of their "DEF tank level sensor" malfunctioning as I was told mine did, among other "possible early warning" failures associated with the electrical components of the SCR system needed in order to provide critical data of the system monitoring status.

Prior to me owing the van, it was a fleet rig driven daily 300 freeway miles round trip by a transport company. I have 3-1/2 pages of owner/dealer maint. records of MB scheduled maintenance in the 3 years and 200K miles it was previously owned showing SCR parts replaced and other repairs.

I figured, all the crap that could go wrong and went wrong had been taken care of and I should not have to deal with those for some time.

NOT!
Interesting chain of events.
Who on earth stated your system is angry?

I would give that shop especially a dealership a wide berth.
The system is locked out due to an emissions fault!

The reasons can be manyfold.
First & foremost from the middle of 2013 MB changed their operating system for much of this Blurrtech system and all the available scan tools up to that date available in NA won't access it!
That's why its dead to the un-informed and those that want you to believe that!
Even all this clone Xentry stuff you have been buying from China won't access it.
MB has stopped that gravy train to DIY fixing their products with more factory based SCN coding programs and adaptation that will your head spin as you try to grasp what is wrong and how to fix it without having to take it to a dealer..This is not for you Youtube graduates or even involved DIY'rs carrying an Autel like a gunslinger --you simply can't access the system--BUT its not dead that it is certain, nor is it angry!
Back to my often funny snide remarks about MB products I make on these forum!--Why are you doing trying to fix it? That is not for you to attempt --all this maintenance & repairs is a MB dealer's job! Your job is just to put fuel in it and drive it OH forgot! must also mention gloat over that Star badge up front!

YOU MUSTN'T TRY TO FIX IT!

Now I am talking Blurrtechs here, so generally CD16 stuff not earlier CD14 engines but some stuff applies somewhat when referring to Cats and DPF's.

I will overview it otherwise this post will be a diatribe.
When the Adblurr light mysteriously comes on and won't go out there is most likely a DPF, Fluid treatment or Cat issue and consequently there is a series of steps and adaptions that are involved to get the light to go off. In many cases this involves a series of scan tool adaptions & road tests to get the rig to go through drive cycles to make it work and re-set itself. Most scan tools out there will not let you get within a mile of doing this!

So backing up a bit!
The DPF and the differential pressure sensor . Well at first for Blurrtechs ONLY! There is a little known socket change for about $25 plus some hoses make up a kit which when installed with a new Diff pressure sensor at about $90, changes the DPF soot and ash figures quite dramatically [B]after you have done an adaptation/teach in!. Only achieved with a factory style scan tool.

Makes me wonder how of you many folk have changed their DPF etc at great cost when they didn't need to! $$$$$$$!

The same applies to the SS lines--blow them clear with a shop line when DISCONNECTED --BUT DON"T FFS just blast shop air into the line from the DPF end!!!! You will wreck the piezo style guts of the diff pressure sensor. Hence back pressure figures get sent to the PCM and Adblue module --lights come on eventually! This apples to ALL such systems not on MB's OK!
In many cases the slip nut on the DPF are corroded out! I often fit new lines because they won't seal properly in service.

Cleaning Cats --I will say for the most part this is doesn't work--its a new 'un or nothing! In fact in the Blurrtech the cat section up front of the DPF filter in the DPF (carcass of the DPF) is so small that it can rarely be cleaned effectively!
A new Blurrtech DPF is $1350 and don't let overcharging Dealers allow you to believe otherwise!
The same goes for the CD14 engine that price with a core for the barrel shaped DPF is $650. One dealer here in the Denver metro wants $1500 for it --No wonder they have a new shop to pay for!
Rip of pricing for sure!--Frankly MB USA & MB dealers nationwide ARE the problem for the most part with these systems not the solution when boiled down.


VNVet where are you at this juncture this van of yours?
Dead in the water or fixed?
Dennis
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Old 08-19-2017, 05:38 PM   #14
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Default Re: DEF Adblue Diesel Exhaust Fluid 10 Starts

Quote:
Originally Posted by lindenengineering View Post
Interesting chain of events.
Who on earth stated your system is angry?
I would give that shop especially a dealership a wide berth.

The system is locked out due to an emissions fault!

The reasons can be manyfold.
First & foremost from the middle of 2013 MB changed their operating system for much of this Blurrtech system and all the available scan tools up to that date available in NA won't access it!
That's why its dead to the un-informed and those that want you to believe that!
Even all this clone Xentry stuff you have been buying from China won't access it.
MB has stopped that gravy train to DIY fixing their products with more factory based SCN coding programs and adaptation that will your head spin as you try to grasp what is wrong and how to fix it without having to take it to a dealer..This is not for you Youtube graduates or even involved DIY'rs carrying an Autel like a gunslinger --you simply can't access the system--BUT its not dead that it is certain, nor is it angry!
Back to my often funny snide remarks about MB products I make on these forum!--Why are you doing trying to fix it? That is not for you to attempt --all this maintenance & repairs is a MB dealer's job! Your job is just to put fuel in it and drive it OH forgot! must also mention gloat over that Star badge up front!

YOU MUSTN'T TRY TO FIX IT!

Now I am talking Blurrtechs here, so generally CD16 stuff not earlier CD14 engines but some stuff applies somewhat when referring to Cats and DPF's.

I will overview it otherwise this post will be a diatribe.
When the Adblurr light mysteriously comes on and won't go out there is most likely a DPF, Fluid treatment or Cat issue and consequently there is a series of steps and adaptions that are involved to get the light to go off. In many cases this involves a series of scan tool adaptions & road tests to get the rig to go through drive cycles to make it work and re-set itself. Most scan tools out there will not let you get within a mile of doing this!

So backing up a bit!
The DPF and the differential pressure sensor . Well at first for Blurrtechs ONLY! There is a little known socket change for about $25 plus some hoses make up a kit which when installed with a new Diff pressure sensor at about $90, changes the DPF soot and ash figures quite dramatically [B]after you have done an adaptation/teach in!. Only achieved with a factory style scan tool.

Makes me wonder how of you many folk have changed their DPF etc at great cost when they didn't need to! $$$$$$$!

The same applies to the SS lines--blow them clear with a shop line when DISCONNECTED --BUT DON"T FFS just blast shop air into the line from the DPF end!!!! You will wreck the piezo style guts of the diff pressure sensor. Hence back pressure figures get sent to the PCM and Adblue module --lights come on eventually! This apples to ALL such systems not on MB's OK!
In many cases the slip nut on the DPF are corroded out! I often fit new lines because they won't seal properly in service.

Cleaning Cats --I will say for the most part this is doesn't work--its a new 'un or nothing! In fact in the Blurrtech the cat section up front of the DPF filter in the DPF (carcass of the DPF) is so small that it can rarely be cleaned effectively!
A new Blurrtech DPF is $1350 and don't let overcharging Dealers allow you to believe otherwise!
The same goes for the CD14 engine that price with a core for the barrel shaped DPF is $650. One dealer here in the Denver metro wants $1500 for it --No wonder they have a new shop to pay for!
Rip of pricing for sure!--Frankly MB USA & MB dealers nationwide ARE the problem for the most part with these systems not the solution when boiled down.


VNVet where are you at this juncture this van of yours?
Dead in the water or fixed?
Dennis
Who on earth stated your system is angry?
The Service Manager at a very large MB/Sprinter stealership.

I would give that shop especially a dealership a wide berth.
I have. I cancelled the appointment for repairs and have taken other measures to ensure that it will never happen again.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf REPAIR INV. DEF.pdf (239.0 KB, 191 views)
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Old 08-19-2017, 06:16 PM   #15
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Default Re: DEF Adblue Diesel Exhaust Fluid 10 Starts

A shot gun job in the making.
There is no mechanic' s notes to go with this I suppose & what was actually diagnosed as defective--Just pay up and shut up!

Try to get a second opinion.
What a mess!
Dennis
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Old 08-19-2017, 06:56 PM   #16
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Default Re: DEF Adblue Diesel Exhaust Fluid 10 Starts

Quote:
Originally Posted by lindenengineering View Post
A shot gun job in the making.
There is no mechanic' s notes to go with this I suppose & what was actually diagnosed as defective--Just pay up and shut up!

Try to get a second opinion.
What a mess!
Dennis
As mentioned, I've taken other measures to ensure it never happens again.

Thanks Dennis
Attached Files
File Type: pdf CODES SCR.pdf (211.7 KB, 182 views)
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Old 08-19-2017, 11:21 PM   #17
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Default Re: DEF Adblue Diesel Exhaust Fluid 10 Starts

Quote:
Originally Posted by lindenengineering View Post
Even all this clone Xentry stuff you have been buying from China won't access it.
Dennis,
Can you elaborate on this? My clone Xentry stuff appears to be able to do everything except resetting a countdown (it CAN add 5 starts to it, though--I don't know how often). It certainly can do live monitoring of all sensors as far as I can see. All of the adaptations appear to be available as well. I have been following your advice about not messing with anything that I don't fully understand, so I don't know if the adaptations would actually work, but they sure look like they would. Am I in for a surprise if I ever attempt something deep?
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Old 08-20-2017, 04:26 AM   #18
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Default Re: DEF Adblue Diesel Exhaust Fluid 10 Starts

Quote:
Originally Posted by lindenengineering View Post
Interesting chain of events.
Who on earth stated your system is angry?

I would give that shop especially a dealership a wide berth.
The system is locked out due to an emissions fault!

The reasons can be manyfold.
First & foremost from the middle of 2013 MB changed their operating system for much of this Blurrtech system and all the available scan tools up to that date available in NA won't access it!
That's why its dead to the un-informed and those that want you to believe that!
Even all this clone Xentry stuff you have been buying from China won't access it.
MB has stopped that gravy train to DIY fixing their products with more factory based SCN coding programs and adaptation that will your head spin as you try to grasp what is wrong and how to fix it without having to take it to a dealer..This is not for you Youtube graduates or even involved DIY'rs carrying an Autel like a gunslinger --you simply can't access the system--BUT its not dead that it is certain, nor is it angry!
Back to my often funny snide remarks about MB products I make on these forum!--Why are you doing trying to fix it? That is not for you to attempt --all this maintenance & repairs is a MB dealer's job! Your job is just to put fuel in it and drive it OH forgot! must also mention gloat over that Star badge up front!

YOU MUSTN'T TRY TO FIX IT!

Now I am talking Blurrtechs here, so generally CD16 stuff not earlier CD14 engines but some stuff applies somewhat when referring to Cats and DPF's.

I will overview it otherwise this post will be a diatribe.
When the Adblurr light mysteriously comes on and won't go out there is most likely a DPF, Fluid treatment or Cat issue and consequently there is a series of steps and adaptions that are involved to get the light to go off. In many cases this involves a series of scan tool adaptions & road tests to get the rig to go through drive cycles to make it work and re-set itself. Most scan tools out there will not let you get within a mile of doing this!

So backing up a bit!
The DPF and the differential pressure sensor . Well at first for Blurrtechs ONLY! There is a little known socket change for about $25 plus some hoses make up a kit which when installed with a new Diff pressure sensor at about $90, changes the DPF soot and ash figures quite dramatically [B]after you have done an adaptation/teach in!. Only achieved with a factory style scan tool.

Makes me wonder how of you many folk have changed their DPF etc at great cost when they didn't need to! $$$$$$$!

The same applies to the SS lines--blow them clear with a shop line when DISCONNECTED --BUT DON"T FFS just blast shop air into the line from the DPF end!!!! You will wreck the piezo style guts of the diff pressure sensor. Hence back pressure figures get sent to the PCM and Adblue module --lights come on eventually! This apples to ALL such systems not on MB's OK!
In many cases the slip nut on the DPF are corroded out! I often fit new lines because they won't seal properly in service.

Cleaning Cats --I will say for the most part this is doesn't work--its a new 'un or nothing! In fact in the Blurrtech the cat section up front of the DPF filter in the DPF (carcass of the DPF) is so small that it can rarely be cleaned effectively!
A new Blurrtech DPF is $1350 and don't let overcharging Dealers allow you to believe otherwise!
The same goes for the CD14 engine that price with a core for the barrel shaped DPF is $650. One dealer here in the Denver metro wants $1500 for it --No wonder they have a new shop to pay for!
Rip of pricing for sure!--Frankly MB USA & MB dealers nationwide ARE the problem for the most part with these systems not the solution when boiled down.


VNVet where are you at this juncture this van of yours?
Dead in the water or fixed?
Dennis
Yep!
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Old 08-24-2017, 04:56 PM   #19
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Default Re: DEF Adblue Diesel Exhaust Fluid 10 Starts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxster1971 View Post
How do you know when the DEF level is just below 50%? From looking at the 2016 Owners manual the current Sprinters only have the same indications of DEF level as my 2012. Basically you get a warning when the DEF level is less than 1.5 gallons. That is well below the 50% level.

I have my DEF filled at each oil/filter change, then add a 2.5 gallon container 5,000 mile after the service. After 80,000 miles I've never had a DEF warning.
Can a ScanGuage 2 give you your DEF level?
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Old 08-24-2017, 09:29 PM   #20
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Default Re: DEF Adblue Diesel Exhaust Fluid 10 Starts

I've never heard of anybody on this forum mention a Scan Gauge can read DEF levels. Consensus is to keep the tank full during storage and top-off every 2 fill ups. I do and have not experienced any issues.

Last edited by Bobnoxious; 08-24-2017 at 09:32 PM.
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