Quality FLA are much more robust and longer lasting compared to the crap usually sold as Starters, including the likes of Optima.
Just need to keep the water topped up is all.
Dead battery at 10.5 volts
- Thread starter My Sprinter's A Lemon
- Start date
Just need to keep the water topped up is all.
My Sprinter's A Lemon
Member
Any issues with water in extremely freezing weather?
Nautamaran
2004 140” HRC 2500 (Crewed)
Not if the battery is kept charged and not over-watered. The battery acid will have a specific gravity (concentration) around 1.250 at full charge. At that concentration it won’t freeze, but as a battery discharges the acid looses sulphur and leaves the water behind, and as the specific gravity drops the solution’s freezing point rises, eventually allowing the battery to freeze. If that happens the ice crystals will destroy the structure of the paste on the plates and the battery is TOAST. Deeply discharging a “starting” class battery can also have a physical effect on the lead paste since the lead plates are usually not arranged to allow for the physical swelling and “treeing” that can occur as the sulphites produced by deep discharge crystallize and collect throughout the paste.
Deep cycle battery design allows for this buildup, making the plates heavier and physically larger.
AGM batteries deal with it through brute force, compressing the plates against glass cloth separators so that they stay put, with a side benefit of improved conductivity and discharge recovery.
Off gassing will occur when any lead/acid battery is over-charged and the water breaks down into hydrogen and oxygen gas, and this depletes the water and reduces the acid’s level. In a classic FLA design the water can simply be replaced through the removable caps, but AGMs are sealed, making replacement of the water impossible, so that over charging permanently drops the acid level and can dry the cells out, damaging t he battery. The AGM construction method can also require a higher charging current than conventional FLA cells to reach a fully charged state, so the charging profile needs to be designed accordingly.
-dave
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It's not water anymore once in the batt.
But yes both AGM and FLA are massively affected by 20-below temps.
The problems with AGM come from them being sealed, sensitive to overcharging, need more precise voltage regulation, want high C-rate input, generally just need more coddling to get long life.
Then again, quality FLA Starters have nearly disappeared outside the NA market, and certainly aren't much cheaper than quality AGM anymore.
But yes both AGM and FLA are massively affected by 20-below temps.
The problems with AGM come from them being sealed, sensitive to overcharging, need more precise voltage regulation, want high C-rate input, generally just need more coddling to get long life.
Then again, quality FLA Starters have nearly disappeared outside the NA market, and certainly aren't much cheaper than quality AGM anymore.
Garandman
Active member
Not our experience.
The Optima rap dates back to when they were purchased by Johnson Controls and opened their Mexican factory in 2009. Their initial production wasn't good but they cleaned that up a year or two later.
The Optima in my WRX is 7 years old. That said, we only used Optima because they were lighter (34 vs 44 lbs). For other applications Odyssey is our first choice and East Penn's Intimidator second. We have AGM's in four cars, two snowmobiles, a boat and two motorcycles. The other motorcycles have Lithium. Our tractor is the only vehicle with FLA.
B
billintomahawk
Guest
I was going to ask this question over in RV Conversions but I'll put it out here since it's all about my T1N and this thread has morphed a little.
I have parked my van for November and December to keep it out of the salt which is already being used on our northern Wisconsin roads.
The van is high and dry, windshield and hood covered with a tarp. I have a two battery system, starter and house. Starter I believe is an AGM, house is a FLA deep cycle under the passengers seat. The are linked through a heavy duty marine on/off switch and 2AWG cable. I have a Battery Tender Plus smart charger connected to the starter battery that is maintaining the system at 13.3V. after putting the system through the smart cycle(14.5V+).
Is there anything else I should do for electrical system maintenance short of pulling both batteries and bringing them inside?
For starting the vehicle when it is time to go traveling for the winter I have a headbolt heater that gives summer like starts after being plugged in for an hour or two. I plan to leave Wisconsin 1/1/2020.
TIA
bill in tomahawk
I have parked my van for November and December to keep it out of the salt which is already being used on our northern Wisconsin roads.
The van is high and dry, windshield and hood covered with a tarp. I have a two battery system, starter and house. Starter I believe is an AGM, house is a FLA deep cycle under the passengers seat. The are linked through a heavy duty marine on/off switch and 2AWG cable. I have a Battery Tender Plus smart charger connected to the starter battery that is maintaining the system at 13.3V. after putting the system through the smart cycle(14.5V+).
Is there anything else I should do for electrical system maintenance short of pulling both batteries and bringing them inside?
For starting the vehicle when it is time to go traveling for the winter I have a headbolt heater that gives summer like starts after being plugged in for an hour or two. I plan to leave Wisconsin 1/1/2020.
TIA
bill in tomahawk
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Nautamaran
2004 140” HRC 2500 (Crewed)
Bill, since you are running different battery types I would isolate them from each other and run separate float chargers. Be VERY careful about float-charging an AGM battery: once it comes up to full voltage and charge the charger should be shutting off, not continuing to push current through the charged battery. A good smart-charger will monitor the battery voltage and switch on as required to bring the voltage back up.
-dave
-dave
Midwestdrifter
Engineer In Residence
AGM can be float charged, just like any lead battery. Obviously use the correct float voltage. For chargers without current feedback, I find that a float stage is critical to getting the last few percent charge in. Typically most chargers do not absorb long enough to get to 100%, so the float helps with that.
For a battery on float/backup service, drop 0.2V off the float voltage. This reduces negative effects from extending float charging.
For a battery on float/backup service, drop 0.2V off the float voltage. This reduces negative effects from extending float charging.
Nautamaran
2004 140” HRC 2500 (Crewed)
I perhaps spoke too conservatively? My caution is aimed at those who might use an ancient transformer charger that will merrily hold too high a float voltage and push current through a battery until it bubbles itself bone dry... I witness this during spring launch season, with boat owners who have conscientiously put their shiny new batteries on a low-end trickle charger in the fall, and come back four months later to find them bone dry and ruined. Over charging never ends well, but sealed types like gell or AGM are less tolerant of that sort of blunder?
-dave
-dave
Midwestdrifter
Engineer In Residence
Sure, float charging at 14V+ will kill any battery. AGM may die faster.
2 years means either the battery was a bottom of the line piece of junk, or there is likely something else wrong and your new battery will soon suffer the same demise, except likely sooner.
Most auto parts stores these days have a charging system tester capable of measuring parasitic drain, charge current and voltage, starter draw, etc. It's usually a free test, as they are selling replacement parts. Quality of testers can vary, some are junk, so try a couple different places and/or ask around until you find a good one - one with a current clamp.