Engine oil - NCV3 OM642 V6

220629

Well-known member
Where is this going?

One article by an oil testing professional doesn't negate all of the testing Mercedes Benz has done over decades. Everyone loves to quote the Operator Manuals and BeVo if someone suggests straying from the doctrines. Is that to change?

So now some comments by one person have the forum questioning the MB recommended oils that have given multiple hundreds of thousands miles engine life. It isn't like our Sprinter engines are grenading.

What I got from the article.

If your manufacturer recommends thinner oil than what you may be comfortable with, don't sweat it. The thin oils work fine.

What I didn't get from the article.

Do not use the 5w-40 MB proper spec oil anymore because it will ruin your engine. (It has been fine for the life of many, many vans.)

:cheers: vic

P.S. - To be clear, my comments above are about viscosity, not additives. I still don't feel MB229.51 or MB229.52 oil is the best choice for my T1N, but that's an additive package thing.
 

vnvet

Member
After much discussion with a 50 yr. MB veteran mechanic and shop owner, my next oil change will be using Amsoil 20/50 Vtwin motorcycle . He likes Redline 20/60 motorcycle oil but he agreed that Amsoil is an excellent choice.
 

showkey

Well-known member
After much discussion with a 50 yr. MB veteran mechanic and shop owner, my next oil change will be using Amsoil 20/50 Vtwin motorcycle . He likes Redline 20/60 motorcycle oil but he agreed that Amsoil is an excellent choice.

:dripsarcasm:

And the reason is ??????
One can only hope the above is a joke and this thread has gone off the tracks.
50 years exp makes him well past his prime :bash:

It's not cost or emissions compliance or easy cold starting or cold weather flow. 20/50 has the consistency of thick ice cream at 0*F. While nobody has posted any oil related engine failures. 20/50 cold start just might shear the oil pump drive or some other crazy issue.

I think I going the other way 0w-20

For those that think $6.00 for 229.51 is too cheap.......amzoil has a solution

[/URL][/IMG]
 
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sajohnson

'09 View/08 3500 chassis
Where is this going?

One article by an oil testing professional doesn't negate all of the testing Mercedes Benz has done over decades. Everyone loves to quote the Operator Manuals and BeVo if someone suggests straying from the doctrines. Is that to change?

So now some comments by one person have the forum questioning the MB recommended oils that have given multiple hundreds of thousands miles engine life. It isn't like our Sprinter engines are grenading.

What I got from the article.

If your manufacturer recommends thinner oil than what you may be comfortable with, don't sweat it. The thin oils work fine.

What I didn't get from the article.

Do not use the 5w-40 MB proper spec oil anymore because it will ruin your engine. (It has been fine for the life of many, many vans.)

:cheers: vic

P.S. - To be clear, my comments above are about viscosity, not additives. I still don't feel MB229.51 or MB229.52 oil is the best choice for my T1N, but that's an additive package thing.
I may have missed something.

That article by the Blackstone employee was promoting the use of thinner motor oils -- like the MB 229.52.

Your take-away from the article is the same as mine.

Are there people who claim it negates all of the testing MB has done? It would seem to support it.
 

4wheels

Well-known member
Just got a picture from my expediter buddy .
He got it from his br-in-law and there is 700k ! He used oil from Walmart - 5w40 Mobil . Yes , it is not 229.51 and yes his dpf is drilled . Check engine is on. Original engine and going strong , he said . 2008 year.

Looks like 5w40 is the way to go with V6 ( like it was originally designed )

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using Tapatalk
 

Old Crows

Calypso 2014 View Profile
Probably doesnt hurt to mix. .51 & .52 are very similar if you look at the Lubrizol spyder graphs. No idea what viscosity you would end up with. 7.5W32???
:bow::thinking::bounce::lol::rolleyes::idunno:

Most of today's engines can be "back speced" to a lighter grade oil with out a problem. It will probably help them. IIRC, about 7 years ago Toyota back speced all but a few of there engines to 0W20. There were a couple of odd ducks that were specifically exempted from it.

If Mother changed the BEVO to .51/.52, either OK for your motor.

Been running 5W30 in Calypso for awhile....not many thousands of miles...hasn't blown up yet. It does crank and start quicker. Seems to be a ittle smoother & quicker reving but no hard data...
 
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sajohnson

'09 View/08 3500 chassis
In post #140, I wrote:

"I've been reluctant to use the newer MB 229.52 oil because it is so thin. I know I'm not the only one.

I still have a small mountain of 229.51 Valvoline. If I do decide to use the 229.52 oil, can the two be mixed, or should I use up the Valvoline (or sell it)?"

~~~~~

The Blackstone guy's experience and observations support the use of lighter weight engine oils -- which is what MB is recommending.

My first thought when I saw his piece was that he's just one person -- and that's true, but because he has worked for Blackstone for so long he would seem to be a good source of solid, objective, science-based information. He has no incentive to push any particular brand or weight of oil. In fact, I don't think Blackstone ever mentions brand names.

If he disagreed with MB, and said that Blackstone found that the thinner oils cause accelerated wear, I would still go with what MB approved oil, but I would be more inclined to follow my instinct and stick with 229.51.

Since his professional experience supports the use of thinner oils like MB 229.52, that pushes me more in that direction.

That's all.

I would never say that, "One article by an oil testing professional negates all of the testing Mercedes Benz has done over decades." Did anyone suggest that?

I agree that the author did indicate, "If your manufacturer recommends thinner oil than what you may be comfortable with, don't sweat it. The thin oils work fine."

It is absolutely true that, "It isn't like our Sprinter engines are grenading."

However, I do not believe the Blackstone guy said, " Do not use the 5w-40 MB proper spec oil anymore because it will ruin your engine." I'm not sure where that came from.

If thinner oil will actually reduce wear (less wear on startup) and increases mpg (very slightly) then the only reason I can see to not use is if there is increased oil consumption.
 

sajohnson

'09 View/08 3500 chassis
Probably doesnt hurt to mix. .51 & .52 are very similar if you look at the Lubrizol spyder graphs. No idea what viscosity you would end up with. 7.5W32???
:bow::thinking::bounce::lol::rolleyes::idunno:

Most of today's engines can be "back speced" to a lighter grade oil with out a problem. It will probably help them. IIRC, about 7 years ago Toyota back speced all but a few of there engines to 0W20. There were a couple of odd ducks that were specifically exempted from it.

If Mother changed the BEVO to .51/.52, either OK for your motor.

Been running 5W30 in Calypso for awhile....not many thousands of miles...hasn't blown up yet. It does crank and start quicker. Seems to be a ittle smoother & quicker reving but no hard data...
Now you've got me curious as to which models Toyota did not back spec, and why.

Obviously a Toyota gas engine is not a MB diesel, but I'd feel better if it was across-the-board.

MB has said it's OK to use the lighter weight 229.52 oil in older V6 engines, right? (Just confirming -- you said, "If Mother...")
 

Old Crows

Calypso 2014 View Profile
https://www.google.com/search?q=tgm...AUICCgC&biw=960&bih=600#imgrc=Og9FflmscplVRM:

You may tease out the outliers in the TGMO chart.

You have to call up the BEVO list for 229.52 and carefully read across the list for NA OM-264s.

To me, Its pretty clear that when the Benz store no longer shelves 5W40 and only has 5W30 for their diesel line, they have "decided" that back specing to earlier V6s is OK. Not sure they would stock 0W30 in Texas.

I don't know what they use for T1Ns.

Viscosity is viscosity and should not matter gas or diesel. The "formulation" of the oil makes a difference for gas or diesel.
 
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Old Crows

Calypso 2014 View Profile
After much discussion with a 50 yr. MB veteran mechanic and shop owner, my next oil change will be using Amsoil 20/50 Vtwin motorcycle . He likes Redline 20/60 motorcycle oil but he agreed that Amsoil is an excellent choice.
:popcorn::popcorn::popcorn::popcorn:
 

220629

Well-known member
In post #140, I wrote:

"I've been reluctant to use the newer MB 229.52 oil because it is so thin. I know I'm not the only one.

I still have a small mountain of 229.51 Valvoline. If I do decide to use the 229.52 oil, can the two be mixed, or should I use up the Valvoline (or sell it)?"

~~~~~

The Blackstone guy's experience and observations support the use of lighter weight engine oils -- which is what MB is recommending.

My first thought when I saw his piece was that he's just one person -- and that's true, but because he has worked for Blackstone for so long he would seem to be a good source of solid, objective, science-based information. He has no incentive to push any particular brand or weight of oil. In fact, I don't think Blackstone ever mentions brand names.

If he disagreed with MB, and said that Blackstone found that the thinner oils cause accelerated wear, I would still go with what MB approved oil, but I would be more inclined to follow my instinct and stick with 229.51.

Since his professional experience supports the use of thinner oils like MB 229.52, that pushes me more in that direction.

That's all.

I would never say that, "One article by an oil testing professional negates all of the testing Mercedes Benz has done over decades." Did anyone suggest that?

I agree that the author did indicate, "If your manufacturer recommends thinner oil than what you may be comfortable with, don't sweat it. The thin oils work fine."

It is absolutely true that, "It isn't like our Sprinter engines are grenading."

However, I do not believe the Blackstone guy said, " Do not use the 5w-40 MB proper spec oil anymore because it will ruin your engine." I'm not sure where that came from.

If thinner oil will actually reduce wear (less wear on startup) and increases mpg (very slightly) then the only reason I can see to not use is if there is increased oil consumption.
It's an oil thread.

Carry on.

vic
 

sajohnson

'09 View/08 3500 chassis
https://www.google.com/search?q=tgm...AUICCgC&biw=960&bih=600#imgrc=Og9FflmscplVRM:

You may tease out the outliers in the TGMO chart.

You have to call up the BEVO list for 229.52 and carefully read across the list for NA OM-264s.

To me, Its pretty clear that when the Benz store no longer shelves 5W40 and only has 5W30 for their diesel line, they have "decided" that back specing to earlier V6s is OK. Not sure they would stock 0W30 in Texas.

I don't know what they use for T1Ns.

Viscosity is viscosity and should not matter gas or diesel. The "formulation" of the oil makes a difference for gas or diesel.
In my post above, I could have been more clear when I said:

"Obviously a Toyota gas engine is not a MB diesel, but I'd feel better if it was across-the-board."

I was essentially just stating the obvious -- that just because Toyota back speced most of their engines, it does not necessarily follow that other mfrs will back spec theirs. On top of that, there may be some difference between gasoline and diesel engines that would affect whether they can be back speced -- like a much higher compression ratio in a diesel, and in the case of our engines, the fact that they are being force-fed with up to 2 atmospheres of air pressure from the turbo.

The fact that not all Toyota engines were back speced indicates that unfortunately it isn't as straightforward as it might be. Most engines can be back speced but some can't, and only the mfr can make that determination.

I suppose that's a moot point though, because as you said, "... the Benz store no longer shelves 5W40 and only has 5W30 for their diesel line...".

I wasn't aware of that.

According to our "Dodge" owner's manual, both 0W-30 and 5W-30 are approved for all temperature use, as are 0W-40, 5W-40, and 5W-50.

I'm thinking I'll try the 229.52 5W-30 and keep an eye on oil consumption.

PS: I checked out the TGMO chart, it's interesting, but I'm not sure what you wanted me to look at.
 
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vnvet

Member
:dripsarcasm:

And the reason is ??????
One can only hope the above is a joke and this thread has gone off the tracks.
50 years exp makes him well past his prime :bash:

It's not cost or emissions compliance or easy cold starting or cold weather flow. 20/50 has the consistency of thick ice cream at 0*F. While nobody has posted any oil related engine failures. 20/50 cold start just might shear the oil pump drive or some other crazy issue.

I think I going the other way 0w-20

For those that think $6.00 for 229.51 is too cheap.......amzoil has a solution

[/URL][/IMG]
Ignorance, arrogance and insults. Lots of it on the arm chair forums.
I personally don't give a rats ass which lubricants anyone uses, nor am I on here to push any product. 42 years using Amsoil and my own proven testimonials works for me. Being a dealer (not a reseller) saves me money from retail. $8.10 for 20/50 Diesel, $9.40 for 20/50 Vtwin.

Hopefully, like most folks here, I'm here gain knowledge and share resources based on ones own experience as well as, from others more experienced on what it takes to keep our Sprinters going.

The facts are out on the product for anyone to view, UNLIKE MB not publishing any data on theirs. That is from MB people, not me.

You can insult and poke fun however, I surmise the author below has light years more experience than you on the subject.

http://www.stephensservice.com/bluetec-diesel-issuesproblems/

http://www.amsoil.com/performancetests.aspx

http://wpc.1c96.edgecastcdn.net/001...sting Archives/g2578-2010-archived/index.html
 

Attachments

showkey

Well-known member
Now there is a BIG surprise.........or at least the answer..........a dealer pushing the product, totally contrary to the manufacturer specs........Specifically weight recommendations and emissions requirements.

At least we know it was not a spoof or joke.
 
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vnvet

Member
Now there is a BIG surprise.........or at least the answer..........a dealer pushing the product, totally contrary to the manufacturer specs........Specifically weight recommendations and emissions requirements.

I assume you are referring to Stephensen Service as I am not pushing or trying to sell any products nor am I required to as previously stated.
 

showkey

Well-known member
After much discussion with a 50 yr. MB veteran mechanic and shop owner, my next oil change will be using Amsoil 20/50 Vtwin motorcycle . He likes Redline 20/60 motorcycle oil but he agreed that Amsoil is an excellent choice.
The ship as sailed ........but.......To be a little more credible and less of a sales pitch or teaser..........

This post could have ended with........I am an amsoil dealer
 
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220629

Well-known member
You can support pretty much whatever you want to with internet searches.


Stephen's Service is on the thicker oil is needed end of the spectrum.

http://www.stephensservice.com/bluetec-diesel-issuesproblems/


The Blackstone article supports that thinner oil has some advantages.

View attachment Feb_17_Engine_Newsletter.pdf


The Stephen's advice might have me concerned if our MB Sprinter engines had many posts indicating similar problems. Because we don't see those posts I tend to discount the information as related to Sprinters. I have no clue as to other MB products.

The Blackstone information would now have me feeling better about using MB229.51 or MB229.52 Xw-30 weight oil in my NCV3 Sprinter. Prior to that article I was leaning toward the previously more common Xw-40 as being a better choice. Now I'd be less concerned.

For typical Sprinter use any and all approved for the service fluids should be equally effective regardless of brand label.

I am not an Amsoil dealer. I didn't even stay at a Holiday Inn Express.

:2cents: vic
 

vnvet

Member
You can support pretty much whatever you want to with internet searches.


Stephen's Service is on the thicker oil is needed end of the spectrum.

http://www.stephensservice.com/bluetec-diesel-issuesproblems/


The Blackstone article supports that thinner oil has some advantages.

View attachment 83411


The Stephen's advice might have me concerned if our MB Sprinter engines had many posts indicating similar problems. Because we don't see those posts I tend to discount the information as related to Sprinters. I have no clue as to other MB products.

The Blackstone information would now have me feeling better about using MB229.51 or MB229.52 Xw-30 weight oil in my NCV3 Sprinter. Prior to that article I was leaning toward the previously more common Xw-40 as being a better choice. Now I'd be less concerned.

For typical Sprinter use any and all approved for the service fluids should be equally effective regardless of brand label.

I am not an Amsoil dealer. I didn't even stay at a Holiday Inn Express.

:2cents: vic

I hear they have a good Continental breakfast. But again, it's just hearsay..:rolleyes:
 

Rob S

2018 Navion 24G IQ on 2016 Sprinter
I can tell you that for my last two changes, MB has installed 0-W30 229.52 in my 2007 Dodge ie 2008 Navion, and there has been no increase in my near zero oil consumption with 106k miles on the clock.

Being an RV it is mostly driven in Summer highway miles last trip through BC Kootenays, Alberta and Northwest US states so lots of hot days and mountain passes.
 

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