Best suspension upgrades for westie

MrTomacco

Mr. Tommaco
When I got the extra rear leaf they told me that they did not recommend air bags because the vehicle was not reinforced where the air bag connected to the body.

Rob
 

Kiltym

Active member
Update regarding the install of the Bilstein B6 24-167161 rear shocks on our Westy.

As I posted, I had a bushing insert made to make the bottom hole 12mm from the original 14mm.

The concern was then about the extended and compressed length of the B6 vs many other 2500 shocks I looked up.

I posted an image of 3 different OEM shocks and their lengths that have been used on the 2500 (https://sprinter-source.com/forum/showpost.php?p=625047&postcount=96). When I had my shock removed, the center hole to center hole extended length was the 21.5" as reported on another thread.

This means the stock shock is 21.5 -> 13.8". Which is what my research had shown was used on the 16" wheel 2500.

The B6 is 21.65" -> 14.4".

Most other after-market shocks in use on the 2500 are ~20" -> 13". This size matches more closely to the OEM shock used with 15" wheels.

I felt the sizing of the B6 is probably fine and had them installed. The only "issue" would be if the shocks bottom out, which I don't know yet, but think they will be fine as it is only ~ 1/2" difference.

On my short drive back from having them installed, there is a noticeable improvement on the side to side motion of the van. Don't have anything to compare to except the OEM, but they seem pretty good to me.

Once I drive on them on some more varied terrain, I will post an update.

What a long journey/project!
 

512Westy

Member
An update with my rig concerning suspension...
Once we started doing the 6 month summer road trips, we needed extra room, accomplished with a storage box on the trailer hitch. This was accomplished with the addition on the Fiamma bike rack bolted onto the rear door, opening up the hitch. Consequently, some added weight was pushed out way back of the rear axle and ended up lowering our rear bumper a couple inches. This last winter, a local suspension guy in Bend, recommended new heavier leaf spring. He got the heaviest spring available and then added a second helper spring. This raised the body about three inches so we may be an inch higher. (may lower as time passes and fatigue sets in) The handling was vastly improved. Seems like a new van. never better. Was about $2,000 which is high given what was actually done, and that i likely could have done this myself, but now i'm not complaining cause I guess i'm paying some for his knowledge. Still not as good as PNWsquid's rig but didn't have to drive it to S cali and raise it 2". His is still the bomb, imho
 

onemanvan

Active member
Iv'e been following this and similar threads for the past 10 years... Obviously I'm not the only Westy owner who is unimpressed with the handling ( gross understatement ? :) The only change I've made is replacing the stock Michelin LT tires with XPS Rib ( no discernible difference in handling ).

The combination of height and relatively short wheelbase are both a blessing and a curse. A blessing because of maneuverability and efficient floorplan. A curse because it's vulnerable to cross winds.

The old VW bug's and bus's - and Chevy Corvair - all suffered from similar poor handling because the engines were in the rear.

When the ratio of weight between the front and rear ( center of gravity ) is shifted to the rear the front wheels will lose the ability to control the vehicle. Try steering a motorcycle while pulling a wheelie:)

The addition of a heavy air conditioner on the roof , a heavy generator under the floor, a 3 gallon water heater, 9 gallon black tank, 200 amp 110VAC to 12VDC power supply for the air condtioner and heavy spare tire and carrier on the rear door all move the CG to the rear. Thanks a lot Airstream:-(

Several Westy owners who have removed the roof air conditioner and generator have commented that the handling was much improved. Moving the spare tire from the rear door to it's original location under the floor where the generator was could only help.

I also notice a difference in handling between driving with empty holding tanks vs full ( worse when full ).

I weigh my Westy every year during my 4 months long summer travels at various public weigh stations along my route. It's always about the same - IE: 4,800 rear and 3,500 front.

It would be interesting know what the front/rear DRY weights are on a James Cook Westy vs NAFTA Westy and what the difference in handling is?

Perhaps the moral of the story is:

"An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure"

OR

"If it ain't broke don't fix it" ( Yes Airstream - I'm talking about you! )

John...
 
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OldWest

2004 T1N Westfalia
1. GVWR (and Axles), Weights in Other Countries

I thought I heard the Sprinters were uprated in weight capacity for the USA market (don't know if DaimlerChrysler made any modifications to increase the weight other than changing label and bigger wheels/tires). More thorough discussion here:

Different Variations:

https://sprinter-source.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2096&highlight=Gvwr+europe

3500 Discussion:

https://sprinter-source.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16167&highlight=Gvwr+europe

Composite Front Spring (we have steel one):

https://sprinter-source.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2023&highlight=Gvwr+europe

Other posters have also found same thing re putting more weight upfront for better handling. But then have issue of not overloading front suspension.

In Australia, owners of lots of Class C RVs complained that they were driving on the bumperstops (no gap) but Mercedes said it was designed that way so no gap needed!

Also interesting re how much weight and where located as to height. In windy conditions, normally want more weight but not if weight is up high. So solution is to drive with full fresh water tank (not too high?) and empty holding tanks?

2. Tire Pressure

Also some differences as to air pressure. Some say need the differential between 55 psi in front and 79/80 psi in rear for best handling while others have found higher psi in front for stiffer sidewalls is better.

3. Tire Size

Several posters have found better handling by going up in size from 225/75/16 to 245/75/16.

4. XPS Ribs

Surprised you didn't notice some difference with XPS Ribs. I did and so have some others. General idea was that the stiffer sidewalls would reduce squirmy tire movement. Have they been broken in?

So difficult to determine what works as each person has different experiences.

Some folks like the stock Westy's handling!
 

Kiltym

Active member
Quick update on the B6 shocks I installed.

Took a 500 mile trip last weekend. Mostly secondary highways and packed dirt/gravel.

The shocks are a huge improvement. There is no more "push" from trucks/buses when passing. Going over uneven terrain is much less jarring as we used to rock back and forth a lot. Have not sensed anything like bottoming out on the shocks so I think the length is good. We also have the roadmaster springs installed (were installed when we bought our Westy), and so far, the combination of the two I am quite happy with. It was quite windy on the 4 hour drive home, and although I could still feel the wind and needed to compensate with the steering wheel, the sudden gusts and movement that would ensue was basically gone. Again, nothing to compare to however, only what it used to feel like on ours.

I suspect any of the good shocks out there will be a bit improvement.
 

OldWest

2004 T1N Westfalia
I wonder how your new Bilsteins compare to the ones Europarts-SD.com is selling specifically for the Airstream Westfalia and other single rear wheel motorhomes (but specifically NOT for passenger and cargo vans)???? Length is slightly longer. Also, same rear shock for T1N and NCV3. Photo is of the yellow/blue Bilstein.

http://europarts-sd.com/shockabsorber-rearbisteinrialta1995-2005-1-1.asp

»Struts & Shock Absorbers
Bilstein-OEM German Supplier

Rear BILSTEIN Shock Absorber-2500 MOTORHOME 2002-2018
MFG: Bilstein

Only for 2500 models.
Heavy duty (High Pressure Gas) for Sprinter based motor home with single wheel rear axle, e.g. Airstream Westfalia

OVERALL LENGTH OF THIS SHOCK ABSORBER IS APPROXIMATELY 560 mm or 22 inches.

Dealer List $152.00
Europarts Price:$109.88
Savings:$42.12 (28%)
Qty:
1

Detailed Description
Sprinter 2002-2006
Sprinter II 2007-2018
These shocks are not for cargo vans, nor passenger vans. They are only for Sprinter 2500 based motor homes.
Bilstein Heavy Duty
Internals: mono tube, high pressure gas
 
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OldWest

2004 T1N Westfalia
Airstream Westfalia (NAFTA version of the Westfalia James Cook) are only on the 2500 single rear wheel Sprinters.
 

MillionMileSprinter

Millionmilesprinter.com
It seems like the conversions are at the max of the weight limit for 2500. I wonder if it were built on a 3500 chassis, suspension and axles if it would make a big difference?
 

Kiltym

Active member
I wonder how your new Bilsteins compare to the ones Europarts-SD.com is selling specifically for the Airstream Westfalia and other single rear wheel motorhomes (but specifically NOT for passenger and cargo vans)???? Length is slightly longer. Also, same rear shock for T1N and NCV3. Photo is of the yellow/blue Bilstein.
I spoke with Steve at Eurpoarts throughout my whole project to sort this issue out.

The shocks he has listed for the 2500 are the same shocks I installed. He even measured and confirmed the 14/14mm holes to be sure however and I let him know they will not fit as-is. He suggested the reducer bushing.

The measurement he has is "approx". It is what I posted previously regarding the 167161.
 

OldWest

2004 T1N Westfalia
Thanks. Good to know that they're the same Bilsteins. Did you post what bushings you got and where? Thanks.

The 3500 chassis may have been a better choice for the Westy given its height, limited carrying capacity (especially after the addition of rooftop AC, generator, etc.), etc. Don't.know if anyone has ever converted a 2500 to a 3500. Old 15 passenger domestic vans with rollover propensity had an aftermarket dual rear wheel safety fix with addtl wheels outside van body--

https://vanangels.wordpress.com/dual-wheels/
 

Kiltym

Active member
Thanks. Good to know that they're the same Bilsteins. Did you post what bushings you got and where? Thanks.
I had some bushing inserts/sleeves/reducer manufactured out of aluminum by a friend with a machine shop. The had an OD of 14mm and an ID of 12mm, and length of 39mm. I then inserted (with force) into the existing hole on the shock so it has the 12mm hole for the bolt.

Another user on here (non-Westy) found some online from China/eBay and was going to order, but I do not know the results.

These would probably work, need two per shock: https://www.ebay.com/itm/IKON-KONI-...ash=item1ec3d1225e:g:0WUAAOSw2gxY0cBz&vxp=mtr
 
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OldWest

2004 T1N Westfalia
Thanks. Copied and pasted the ebay info in case the listing disappears:

IKON / KONI shock bush reducer sleeve 12mm x 14mm x 19mm (part# 70-52-11-427-0)
$3.00
$2.95
Shipping
May 14
Est. Delivery
Quantity :

About this item
Condition:
New.
Quantity:
6 sold
2 available
Manufacturer Part Number:
70-52-11-427-0
Warranty:
Yes
Brand:
Ikon
Country/Region of Manufacture:
Australia
Placement on Vehicle:
Rear

Genuine IKON / KONI motorcycle replacement steel reducer sleeve to fit inside rubber bushing.
Generic pic used
Dimensions: 12mm I.D.
14mm O.D.
19mm Long

part# 70-52-11-427-0

IKON / KONI shock bush reducer sleeve 12mm x 14mm x 19mm (part# 70-52-11-427-0)
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OldWest

2004 T1N Westfalia
Variety of different helper springs available. Different set-up methods. Some look like an extra leaf spring along the total length while others touch only partially with bumper stops at the end, etc. There is also a complete multi-leaf replacement which may be available.

1. Deaver Springs

One Westy owner had custom helper springs added by Deaver Springs and did not replace original rear springs.

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/...westfalia/info

I need to clarify- Deaver Spring made and installed a full length Helper Spring set. The original spring is retained and now it has two leaves per side. This requires custom made longer U-bolts.
My installation was done 6/7/12 on invoice 62794 with a cost at that time of $577. They note “AAL plus 1” 2.5 in wide.
Their product solved 95 percent of Westy’s handling issues. The previous owner has installed koni shocks and HD sway bars but was still scary to drive in the wind or even past semi trucks. I can’t image how bad they must drive without these suspension upgrades.
Now it is a pleasure to drive on trips up to 70-75 mph.
Hope that helps. They know what they are doing - it is a lost art. They started over 100 years ago making “buggy” and now car/truck springs!!!
Roger

2. Upscale Auto/Sprinterstore Helper Spring

https://www.sprinterstore.com/product/sprinterupgrades-spring-assist-suspension/

Believe one or more Westy owners have this or something similar from Sprinterstore, and also added Road master Active Suspension.

3. Upscale Auto/Sprinterstore Multi-Leaf Replacement

For heavily loaded Sprinters, they offer a multi-leaf replacemenr.

https://www.sprinterstore.com/product/sprinter-pleasure-way-suspension-system-kit-free-shipping/
 
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OldWest

2004 T1N Westfalia
Update Correction Clarification on Deaver Springs (I described incorrectly as a helper spring.):

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/sprinter_westfalia/conversations/messages/14557?guccounter=1

Hello again. You got my curiosity going so I crawled under Westy.
I would think a helper spring would come into play at the “bottom” of the spring action.
What Deaver Spring made and installed is a true second leaf. It is full length, curved to match the Factory unit , has four steel clips per side to keep in place and glide pads between the two. Like a true multi leaf spring - not just a helper unit.
As such the suspense is “progressive”, smooth and much more stable.
Hope this help people.
Roger
 

sprinter_wy

New member
I have benefited from reading this thread so I wanted to share my experience with our suspension upgrade.

Old/original and totally worn shocks (160k+ miles) were replaced with red Konis (front and rear, same part numbers as in posts above. Had to wait a few months as the front struts were all sold out in US and in Germany. The factory made some more in May 2018). I set the preload on 50% on all shocks and struts.

In addition we had Sumos installed (front and rear, again part numbers are in the thread above).

Result:
1. MUCH better in crosswinds (and we get some STRONG ones here in Wyoming).
2. More stable when passing/being passed by semis. 70-75mph is now relatively relaxing. It's still 11 feet tall, but its quite tolerable now ;-)
3. body roll going in and out of parking lots (diagonally) is less prounounced, but the difference is not night and day.
4. dirt roads/wash board: at 50% preload this feels about the same as the old, soft shocks. So, no loss here, but a huge gain in stability (see 1 and 2 above).
 

jujupang

Member
Variety of different helper springs available. Different set-up methods. Some look like an extra leaf spring along the total length while others touch only partially with bumper stops at the end, etc. There is also a complete multi-leaf replacement which may be available.

1. Deaver Springs

One Westy owner had custom helper springs added by Deaver Springs and did not replace original rear springs.

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/...westfalia/info

I need to clarify- Deaver Spring made and installed a full length Helper Spring set. The original spring is retained and now it has two leaves per side. This requires custom made longer U-bolts.
My installation was done 6/7/12 on invoice 62794 with a cost at that time of $577. They note “AAL plus 1” 2.5 in wide.
Their product solved 95 percent of Westy’s handling issues. The previous owner has installed koni shocks and HD sway bars but was still scary to drive in the wind or even past semi trucks. I can’t image how bad they must drive without these suspension upgrades.
Now it is a pleasure to drive on trips up to 70-75 mph.
Hope that helps. They know what they are doing - it is a lost art. They started over 100 years ago making “buggy” and now car/truck springs!!!
Roger

2. Upscale Auto/Sprinterstore Helper Spring

https://www.sprinterstore.com/product/sprinterupgrades-spring-assist-suspension/

Believe one or more Westy owners have this or something similar from Sprinterstore, and also added Road master Active Suspension.

3. Upscale Auto/Sprinterstore Multi-Leaf Replacement

For heavily loaded Sprinters, they offer a multi-leaf replacemenr.

https://www.sprinterstore.com/product/sprinter-pleasure-way-suspension-system-kit-free-shipping/
 

jujupang

Member
I had the Sprinterstore helperspring installed years ago, felt like it made absolutely no difference. The Roadmaster Active Suspension addition was effective and I found it to be very helpful, remember you’re still driving a “aerodynamic?” Brick through crosswinds and with bigger trucks.
 

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