Alarming 4x4 review - is this an outlier?

SOLBRTs

Member
FWIW

My 2011 144 low 2WD with Michelin LTX M&S was much better in the snow than my 2017 144 hi 4x4 with Cooper ATP M&S (not as good as the Michelins for sure)which left me in the embarrassing position of being pulled out of 8-10 inches of snow by a beater Toyota 4x4 (to their credit they were nice enough to help me out and barely snickered at all). Tried everything hi-low, ASR on off, etc. etc. Between all the tires spinning and brakes locking and unlocking I thought I was going to rip the van apart. My 2WD would have powered through that. Had a 2WD Metris in between the Sprinters and also, not a bit of trouble in the snow. Got the 4x4 Sprinter specifically for snow and now questioning the decision especially now that THIS is coming

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ca...44/mercedes-benz-metris-new-weekender-camper/

YMMV
 

Michlb

Active member
Between all the tires spinning and brakes locking and unlocking I thought I was going to rip the van apart. My 2WD would have powered through that.

The wild thing that I keep seeing is that for the many many passionately satisfied 4x4 customers, there are the few horror stories. It feels like that in this completely software-driven machine without any diff locks, the vast number of situations are well covered, but then there is this weird combination of spinning wheels, the computer just can’t make sense of and helplessly brakes and spins without moving much.

It is true that the simple 2WD system may get you stuck, but at least you know reliably what you can and cannot do.
 

SOLBRTs

Member
Grew up in the snow spent a few years living at ski resorts so I’m not a snow novice and I know dedicated snow tires are the most important part of any snow driving equation. Not sure how the 4x4 is for off-road because that’s not something I do but snow performance is unimpressive.
 

Michlb

Active member
I know dedicated snow tires are the most important part of any snow driving equation. Not sure how the 4x4 is for off-road because that’s not something I do but snow performance is unimpressive.

We are exactly on the same ski lift (or not, since I’m mostly skinning). The only reason for me to look at 4x4 is snow performance.

I’ve got Blizzaks and 400 lbs in the back of my 2WD. I’m satisfied. I will keep looking for stories like yours to eventually make the decision whether to sell and upgrade. Maybe I will at some point have the opportunity to drive a 4x4 in snow.
 

IPT

Active member
I live in Alaska and have the 2018 4x4 with dedicated winter tires (Nokian's, studded). I actually started a thread about my not being impressed with the 4x4 after my first outing (https://www.sprinter-source.com/forum/showthread.php?t=71838).

That was a brand new unloaded passenger van. Since then I added some weight in the back and have more seat time. That said, I'm still not overly impressed. I almost got stuck in 12 inches of snow trying to start from a dead stop. Once I backed up a little bit and had a tiny running start for the front tires to mash down the snow with a little momentum I was good to go. That said, I have a steep driveway. There are plenty of times I can't get out in 2wd. The traction control is an issue, because it does bog you down and stalls momentum. I think sometimes and in some situations you are much better off with it off. I think some controlled wheel spin while maintaining momentum is fine. All of that said, at the end of the day if I put it in 4wd, I climb out without slippage or any issue. Even if I start on the incline where the slipping 2wd attempt left me. As for noise, I honestly don't notice much if any difference at all.

The 4x4 for me in not an option, it's a necessity. As I mentioned, I literally cannot get out of my driveway sometimes without it. With it, I have yet to have an issue, even under very icy (near glare ice) conditions. A friend had an older 2wd Sprinter and in the winter I could often see his van parked at the bottom of a local hill since he couldn't make it up (even with several hundred lbs of weight in the rear and dedicated winter tires). Since he got the 4x4 model I haven't seen it parked down there once.

So, I guess it depends on your needs and expectations. I live in a world of snow and ice 4-6 months out of the year and have a steep driveway. For my needs the van has been excellent, and I can't imagine having only 2wd. I think my 4wd Trailblazer did a lot better, but I can't load that up, have a heater in it, sleep in it, turn my seats around, or stand up to change my 3 year old's clothes (or mine for that matter). It's all about tradeoffs, and truth is for my needs this one was an easy and useful tradeoff. I'd love to have a jacked up U-Joint true 4x4 Van, but that's a whole other beast and not a road I wanted to venture down (Though I think they are bad a$$). YMMV.
 
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4wheeldog

2018 144" Tall Revel
I live in Alaska and have the 2018 4x4 with dedicated winter tires (Nokian's, studded). I actually started a thread about my not being impressed with the 4x4 after my first outing (https://www.sprinter-source.com/forum/showthread.php?t=71838).

That was a brand new unloaded passenger van. Since then I added some weight in the back and have more seat time. That said, I'm still not overly impressed. I almost got stuck in 12 inches of snow trying to start from a dead stop. Once I backed up a little bit and had a tiny running start for the front tires to mash down the snow with a little momentum I was good to go. That said, I have a steep driveway. There are plenty of times I can't get out in 2wd. The traction control is an issue, because it does bog you down and stalls momentum. I think sometimes and in some situations you are much better off with it off. I think some controlled wheel spin while maintaining momentum is fine. All of that said, at the end of the day if I put it in 4wd, I climb out without slippage or any issue. Even if I start on the incline where the slipping 2wd attempt left me. As for noise, I honestly don't notice much if any difference at all.

The 4x4 for me in not an option, it's a necessity. As I mentioned, I literally cannot get out of my driveway sometimes without it. With it, I have yet to have an issue, even under very icy (near glare ice) conditions. A friend had an older 2wd Sprinter and in the winter I could often see his van parked at the bottom of a local hill since he couldn't make it up (even with several hundred lbs of weight in the rear and dedicated winter tires). Since he got the 4x4 model I haven't seen it parked down there once.

So, I guess it depends on your needs and expectations. I live in a world of snow and ice 4-6 months out of the year and have a steep driveway. For my needs the van has been excellent, and I can't imagine having only 2wd. I think my 4wd Trailblazer did a lot better, but I can't load that up, have a heater in it, sleep in it, turn my seats around, or stand up to change my 3 year old's clothes (or mine for that matter). It's all about tradeoffs, and truth is for my needs this one was an easy and useful tradeoff. I'd love to have a jacked up U-Joint true 4x4 Van, but that's a whole other beast and not a road I wanted to venture down (Though I think they are bad a$$). YMMV.
I have the opposite driveway situation......Very steep, but uphill going toward the house.
My '18 chassis Winnebago Revel makes it possible to go home, along with a lot of other things made easier or possible with the 4x4. As with your situation, 4 or 5 months a year we would not be able to use the MH. And I do agree that the traction control is sometimes a bit counter productive, at least it seems to be. But it has worked very well on ice and in snow. Only time we got stuck was in deep mud. And it did pull itself out, with the use of sand boards.
 

Midwestdrifter

Engineer In Residence
Never tried it myself, but in a pinch, you could try pulling the ABS motor/pump fuse (40A?). That would disable all traction control functions until a restart. I would bet the performance would be worse due to the lack of intervention, but may be worth a try in a safe situation.
 

radair603

Member
Not much to add except when I can't get up my steep driveway in 2wd, it always makes it when I shift into 4wd. Like the Alaskans above, it is a necessity for me even with studded snow tires. It's a long winter in the northeast.

No offense to Ken, as I love his detail and documentation, but an anti-4wd article written by someone who doesn't own a 4wd van has to be taken with a grain of salt. I do not regret my decision in the least.
 

Michlb

Active member
No offense to Ken, as I love his detail and documentation, but an anti-4wd article written by someone who doesn't own a 4wd van has to be taken with a grain of salt. I do not regret my decision in the least.

Most of what Ken said is right. The way I read it is that “here is some information for you to make an informed decision”. I still wish I would have spent the money. For me it really came down to “do I really want a $75,000 van if the 4x4 is not perfect”. What I feel lis wrong is the claim about noise and higher consumption. Nobody has confirmed this yet. I do have to say this influenced my decision. But in the end, it was still my decision.
 
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Most of what Ken said is right. The way I read it is that “here is some information for you to make an informed decision”. I still wish I would have spent the money. For me it really came down to “do I really want a $75,000 van if the 4x4 is not perfect”. What I feel lis wrong is the claim about noise and higher consumption. Nobody has confirmed this yet. I do have to say this influenced my decision. But in the end, it was still my decision.
For me it wasn't the higher base price as many of us customize our vans putting loads of $$$$$ in to them anyway. Aftermarket 4x4 was an option that I could never afford to add later. I knew from previous experience driving in blizzards traveling through West Virginia, Kansas and Colorado that 4x4 had to be beneficial over 2 wd. If I was traveling in southern states I'd likely not care.

We've been blessed with great snow traction in all of our sprinter snow driving in the Rockies. I'm guessing our 3500XD 144 weights about 8500 lbs to max of 9000 lbs with dogs and luggage loaded. I think the weight is perfect for the dually setup with BFG K02's. I can't imagine how good the traction would be with dedicated snows like blizzaks. I've felt the ABS kick in a few times coming to a quick stop but nothing scary or out of control. I'm sure the blizzaks would make it feel like being on rails. As many owners have spoken repeatedly about, weight is critical to stability as well as getting rid of the stock tires. The only negative I can think of is the way you need to shift it to get into 4WD - thinking ahead a few hundred miles and just engaging it when there really isn't need is the best option. Minor issue as the fact you can drive with 4WD engaged on all road surfaces is fantastic, just be prepared to pay for it a bit at the pump.

If you live on steep hilly terrain with gravel and dirt roads the 4x4 will also help dramatically. I have a friend who previously drove a front wheel drive 2018 Ram ProMaster with K02's. He loved the Ram as long as the grade wasn't too steep, he drove in snow and mud all the time.
However, he's now rocking his new new 144 VS30 4x4 and driving up steep mountain roads he couldn't make it up in his ProMaster. Here's a video he took:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DqGg2XPHV2g
 

Michlb

Active member
For me it wasn't the higher base price as many of us customize our vans putting loads of $$$$$ in to them anyway.

....

The only negative I can think of is the way you need to shift it to get into 4WD - thinking ahead a few hundred miles and just engaging it when there really isn't need is the best option. Minor issue as the fact you can drive with 4WD engaged on all road surfaces is fantastic, just be prepared to pay for it a bit at the pump.
^^^ this! Even though my build-out is minimal, I have already spent $20k on contractors and materials. The additional 10ish for 4x4 become a rounding error as time goes by.


Nice video! And even if I would never have to use my van like your friend, the important thing to remember is that there is no downside to having a 4x4 even if you don’t use it. No noise, and no higher consumption, at least not as long as you drive only the rear wheels.

So, even if the 4x4 is not perfect, it is better than not having it.
 

IPT

Active member
Just to add a bit, we had freezing snow and rain last night making for icy roads today. When I left this am it was snowing on top of it. Ran in 4wd all morning. As for any noise difference, it was barely discernable. There is a very subtle gear whine that I only noticed now that I was paying attention to it (actually sounded soothing to me!). As for performance today, fantastic. No issue up and out of the driveway not getting started from a dead stop at lights with glazed over icy conditions. I know in nicer conditions in 2WD I would feel the vans traction control kick in due to wheel spin and it took a while to get up to speed. Did I get stuck at a light, no, but it did take a bit to get going. In 4wd, a total non-issue. Might as well of been on dry pavement as far as the van performance went.
 

Michlb

Active member
In 4wd, a total non-issue. Might as well of been on dry pavement as far as the van performance went.

Would have been so nice to have such objective comparisons available when I bought my RWD instead of 4x4. Crying ...
 

aksotar

2017 4x4 144 Cargo
if you need other people to tell you if you need a 4x4 then you’re better off not having one...
you’d most likely just get stuck and bad mouth them...
 

4wheeldog

2018 144" Tall Revel
if you need other people to tell you if you need a 4x4 then you’re better off not having one...
you’d most likely just get stuck and bad mouth them...
Yeah. In any dicey situation, I always ask myself "Self, what could possibly go wrong?"
In slippery or loose conditions, 4wd definitely gives you better odds.
 

OffroadHamster

Well-known member

Arrive here in a 4runner and camp as comfortably and with as many creature comforts, and I will trade my van for a 4runner. Its not about going impossible places, its about going places impossible for 99% of campers/travelers/rv'ers etc. About getting just far enough away to be alone (or nearly alone). About not listening to some assholes generator, argument with his wife, or conflict with Johnny Law.

Sprinter has its limitations. Its not a Land Cruiser. And a Land Cruiser is not a backpack and pair of trail runners. And the backpack and trail runners are not a pack raft. Decide where you want to go, and how much you want to bring and select your ride appropriately.

Finally, enjoy the adventure in whatever form you can get it.

Finally Finally: Learn to operate whatever conveyance you have. Ive pulled a Land Cruiser out of a snow ditch it had no business being in. Ive also made tough guys in Jeeps at the top of a climb blush after bouncing by in a little Subaru as well as helped my buddy pull a 2500 dodge out of some mud with an even smaller Subaru. Know what your vehicle is capable of, and how to make it do what it is capable of safely and efficiently.
 
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Wrinkledpants

2017 144WB 4x4

Arrive here in a 4runner and camp as comfortably and with as many creature comforts, and I will trade my van for a 4runner. Its not about going impossible places, its about going places impossible for 99% of campers/travelers/rv'ers etc. About getting just far enough away to be alone (or nearly alone). About not listening to some assholes generator, argument with his wife, or conflict with Johnny Law.

Sprinter has its limitations. Its not a Land Cruiser. And a Land Cruiser is not a backpack and pair of trail runners. And the backpack and trail runners are not a pack raft. Decide where you want to go, and how much you want to bring and select your ride appropriately.

Finally, enjoy the adventure in whatever form you can get it.

Finally Finally: Learn to operate whatever conveyance you have. Ive pulled a Land Cruiser out of a snow ditch it had no business being in. Ive also made tough guys in Jeeps at the top of a climb blush after bouncing by in a little Subaru as well as helped my buddy pull a 2500 dodge out of some mud with an even smaller Subaru. Know what your vehicle is capable of, and how to make it do what it is capable of safely and efficiently.
4x4 Sprinters are the worst. Can't handle even dust on a paved road. Everyone that owns one should stay home. You definitely won't make it to a BLM camp spot.

Thanks,

-All of the West
 

Midwestdrifter

Engineer In Residence
Just as important as 4x4 is gaining experience, and carrying the correct tools. Shovel, air compressor, (chains, traction mats etc, as applicable to region). The correct tires at the right pressure for the conditions is absolutely critical. I have watched 2WD crush 4x4s with the wrong tires and an inexperienced driver. I have also seen a 4x4 with skilled driver navigate terrain that would surprise and amaze.
 

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