washington post /sprinter advice

05highroof

New member
Thought some of you might a kick out of this article I found in the Washington Post. Pat Goss is their automobile columnist with some 40 years experience as a auto mechanic / garage owner.


Bonifay, Fla.: My 2004 Dodge Sprinter (MD diesel van) with 40,000 miles on it has broken down three times since Memorial Day - lost crankcase pulley, resonator, and finally turbo charger. Am I safe for awhile, or should I get rid of it for a U.S. diesel van? If so, which one?

Pat Goss: Oh my! You are probably safe for a while but if you are uneasy with the vehicle (I know I would be) then a domestic might be in order but I would buy gas power rather than diesel due to numerous diesel problems. We service some fleets of vans and to a fleet they have switched to gas engines. Their numbers show they can get more miles out of two gas engines per van at a lower cost than a single diesel.
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abittenbinder

Doktor A (864-623-9110)
You probably recognize Pat Goss from the Motorweek TV show. Shame on him for lumping MBenz diesel engines with US made diesels, in coming to that conclusion. Doktor A
 

Altered Sprinter

Happy Little Vegemite
You probably recognize Pat Goss from the Motorweek TV show. Shame on him for lumping MBenz diesel engines with US made diesels, in coming to that conclusion. Doktor A
Yep one negative = attitude overrides..12 positives = advantages.. I would think the magazines sponsors pay quite a bit of money for negative thoughts, towards imported technologies.:shifty:
Well here is a positive statement...........................................................................
Daimler AG increases sales world-Wide over 2006-2007 to a massive 169% increase on volume sales , the only country to report downward sales on Sprinters was the USA , but that is because of local economics, not the Sprinter as such.

Another positive as to alternative vehicles with Diesel ...Look at the recalls on oppositions vehicles, as opposed to the Sprinter, OK the Sprinter, it's not a perfect 100% fault free unit. But Daimler is the one laughing it's corporate head off, all the way to the bank,as the worlds most profitable automotive manufacture.

Positive thought for the oppositions think tank... Daimler has always invested back, profits derived from sales...towards further development on all products...that the diversity, of Daimler's divisions! "Have_Interests in" ...'ALWAYS' looking to the future instead of burying it's head in the corrupted encrusted quick sands of yesterdays history.

Negative thought, show me one N/American manufacture in the automotive industry that has done this in the last twenty five years:thinking: I can only think of the GM electric car, that had the potential and foresight to resolve energy needs , and who killed that one. 'I may well ask'! it was not a directive from GM so much, but as to the disincentives of large oil organizations,and the feds who wanted taxpayers money to be spent on the Hummer.

In the last financial year Australia sold one million new vehicles 50% were Diesel :clapping:That speaks for itself... People are not conned that easily down under.

Grrrr' so Mr Pat Goss........ My answer to your negative comment, read this one.
Diesel Dominates. and take a long hard look at the 42 MPG rocket pocket Diesel 4-in-lines with double cam 32 V twin-inline turbos, one runs full time! the other when you need the extra power. And just for added input VW with Turbo and supercharger, all hooked on new technology with double clutch sequential seven speed auto trans, and PIEZO fuel injection automatically adjusting for fuel pressure, to each individual piston only when you need it. they are knocking on your door..Now today, sooooo' smooth, sooooo' quiet,,,soooo' clean with Blutec, non vibrating,Heck they run on Viagra, with double balancing shafts, Yep two of them, eat your heart! out Mr Goss:lol: 'hello :thumbup:Mr Benz'... strikes again... On ya' 'Bike mate.
Richard
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contractor

New member
You probably recognize Pat Goss from the Motorweek TV show. Shame on him for lumping MBenz diesel engines with US made diesels, in coming to that conclusion. Doktor A
It's too bad the american car manufacturers don't focus on diesel to reduce our usage of oil. I believe the latest GM commercial talks about the promise of electric, hybrid, and H2 technologies but nothing about bio-diesel?
Europeans have been focusing on diesel instead of the hybrid. The VW TDI can get a whopping 48 MPG with their diesel (and lots of power).
Reliability can always be improved ... the Japanese are wonderful at this. Yet, I don't believe Toyota even makes a diesel:thinking:
 

jdcaples

Not Suitable w/220v Gen
Yet, I don't believe Toyota even makes a diesel:thinking:

Toyota makes a diesel.... your - and my - residency precludes our ownership (at least at a reasonable price).

Engine type Diesel
Engine capacity (cc) 4461
Engine description V8/DOHC/4V
Forced induction system Turbo
Maximum Power 195kW @ 3400rpm
Maximum Torque 650Nm @ 1600rpm

Toyota Landcruiser. Available Down Under.

-Jon
 
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Altered Sprinter

Happy Little Vegemite
Toyota land cruiser, Tropper, one ton vans,and pick ups, Diesel very popular The Diesel is an older engine and will struggle to accept a euro 4 DPF for 2008 , they are registered in a lower class for emission standards,Oh what a Feeling.. Toyota. will find a way, they are twice as noisy than the Mercedes Sprinter and only last about half the life span of the Mercs But 500 thousand Kilometers before serious work is required, advantage thirty percent cheaper than a Mercedes as a work horse in the van section, they dominate the sales over all competition but with the Yen losing ground as to it being linked to the US dollar Toyota is in trouble down under as to having a competitive lead, I like them .
Toyota's have extremely high resale valuations, better than the Sprinters. however Toyota has proven itself down under, especially with the 4X4 section
Richard
 

topless

Wichita, KS
The discussion about diesel vs gas is conducted mostly on the gas side by people who have no direct experience with modern turbo diesels.
I was one of the first people on RV.net to buy a Sprinter rv conversion and the debate from uninformed people was , and continues to be, amazing. People who never even rode in a Sprinter couldn't believe it made enough power to do anything. I quit even trying to explain how a turbo makes up for displacement, especially in high altitudes.
For a couple of years, a number of them refused to accept that a big van could get low 20's mpg.
It has turned now, but it got so contentious that fuel discussions are banned on the B van forum. lol, the non-diesel folks lost their cool because they had no facts to back up their statements.
Blame GM and their horrible diesels of the late 70's-early 80's for the publics dislike of diesel cars.
It didn't help with the U.S. not going to ULSD until last year and the cost of diesel being 30-50 cents higher per gallon than regular unleaded.
 

Altered Sprinter

Happy Little Vegemite
The discussion about diesel vs gas is conducted mostly on the gas side by people who have no direct experience with modern turbo diesels.
I was one of the first people on RV.net to buy a Sprinter rv conversion and the debate from uninformed people was , and continues to be, amazing. People who never even rode in a Sprinter couldn't believe it made enough power to do anything. I quit even trying to explain how a turbo makes up for displacement, especially in high altitudes.
For a couple of years, a number of them refused to accept that a big van could get low 20's mpg.
It has turned now, but it got so contentious that fuel discussions are banned on the B van forum. lol, the non-diesel folks lost their cool because they had no facts to back up their statements.
Blame GM and their horrible diesels of the late 70's-early 80's for the publics dislike of diesel cars.
It didn't help with the U.S. not going to ULSD until last year and the cost of diesel being 30-50 cents higher per gallon than regular unleaded.
Thank you topless an excellent evaluation as to modern Diesel engines, factual and non biased:clapping:
Richard
 

SprintED

New member
Check out the Jan edition of Popular Mechanics....nice article about 75 mpg diesel VW Polo Bluemotion and how it it out performs the Prius on MPG by 38% and puts out less emissions. Also chats about all the diesels coming to America this year and next. But not the Polo...it cant meet the California emission regs...how stupid is that????

Although my particular (isolated) experience with a less than reliable sprinter should have me agreeing with Mr. Goss...but he is out to lunch IMHO. Over 50% of the vehicles sold in Europe are diesel and the sooner we do the same...the sooner we can start burning less fuel as a continent.

"If 33% of US drivers switched to diesel, the country would reduce its oil consumption by about 1.5 million barrels a day, cutting oil imports by more than 10%" Popular Mechanics - Jan 2008

"This is going to be remembered as the decade when we transformed diesel" Margo Oge, EPA
 
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contractor

New member
Check out the Jan edition of Popular Mechanics....nice article about 75 mpg diesel VW Polo Bluemotion and how it it out performs the Prius on MPG by 38% and puts out less emissions. Also chats about all the diesels coming to America this year and next. But not the Polo...it cant meet the California emission regs...how stupid is that????

Although my particular (isolated) experience with a less than reliable sprinter should have me agreeing with Mr. Goss...but he is out to lunch IMHO. Over 50% of the vehicles sold in Europe are diesel and the sooner we do the same...the sooner we can start burning less fuel as a continent.

"If 33% of US drivers switched to diesel, the country would reduce its oil consumption by about 1.5 million barrels a day, cutting oil imports by more than 10%" Popular Mechanics - Jan 2008

"This is going to be remembered as the decade when we transformed diesel" Margo Oge, EPA
Thank you for the informative post.
This may also be remembered as the decade missed by the US auto manufacturers since designs lag trends by years. I do not even hear about the promise of diesel in any commercials.
 

seabumb

New member
Peugeot is one of the leading small diesel engine manufactures in the world and their vehicles were one common if not popular in the U.S. but when EPA changed the regulations on diesel Peugeot decided the U.S. was not a market for them because of the mind set of the American citizen towards diesels. I believe this was in the early 80's. My family owned 2 or 3 diesel Peugeots then and a couple of diesel Isuzu's small trucks (fantastic FE on from both companies.)

The following is an blurb on the Mini Cooper diesel (2nd version - 1st was too weak) that is a rave everywhere in the world except the U.S., where it is wanted but will not arrive. I believe the engine is made by Peugeot but they may have made the 1st diesel version.

http://www.motoringfile.com/2007/05/30/bring-the-mini-cooper-diesel-to-the-us/
MotoringFile » Archive » Bring the MINI Cooper Diesel to the US

GMC/Chevy and Dodge both experimented with Diesel Hybrids around 2000/2001 and the 'test' group found the vehicle to be extremely efficient and they were very well received with the fleets testing them wanting more [I am too lazy to research the articles that I have archived somewhere but it should be easy to find on the Internet]. Now it seems that Chevy will be making them for the U.S. government, who, ironically, most likely had an economic hand in preventing them from coming out to the general public years ago.

http://trucks.about.com/cs/militarytrucks/a/gm_miltary.htm
GM Fuel Efficient Hybrid Military Truck - Light Tactical Trucks


Almost everyone here is probably well aware that VW made excellent diesel engines, the Rabbit being the best example at about 80mpg overall in the '70's (when I worked in a Honda service department in the early 80s it was a rare find to get a used Rabbit diesel and they were never sold on the lot, employees ALWAYS bought them), but they had to pull the diesels from the market to meet new standards but will return, along with Toyota, BMW, Honda, and others foreign manufacturers.

http://www.autosavant.net/2007/10/honda-accord-diesel-and-new-hybrid.html
AUTOSAVANT: Honda Accord Diesel and New Hybrid Coming for 2009 Model Year

At least in U.K., companies are getting realistic about their research, the famous London Taxi company chose last year to start replacing their fleet entirely with the VM Motori SpA, diesels (many great articles on the very high efficiency of this engine pushing those heavy taxi's around.) http://www.vmmotori.it/en/03/00/dettaglio.jsp?id=92
VM Motori S.p.A.

And even the mid-to-large truck market is improving, on the foreign side, at least:

http://www.treehugger.com/files/2006/07/milestone_hybri.php
Mitsubishi Releases Diesel Hybrid Truck in Japan : TreeHugger

There is a picture forming here...

"Why is the U.S. falling so far behind in the area of diesel, well, in the entire automotive area?"

But there is a very thin ray of hope fightings its way through the clouds, and GM, see this ray, decides they should at least start to consider that maybe, someday, the U.S. may be ready...

http://www.autoobserver.com/2007/07/gm-diesel-deal-.html
GM Buys 50% of Penske’s VM Motori Diesel Maker - AutoObserver

Ok, this could just be GM trying to fight off their competition by buying them out, but I want to think positive.

My three :2cents:
 

BaywoodBill

pre-Yuppiedom
This may also be remembered as the decade missed by the US auto manufacturers
Decade? How about the past 40 or 50 years? Ever since the Volkswagen bug swept the country and (at first) earned nothing but ridicule from most folks [I remember my frequent comment in those days to the effect that if you get a string of cars driving along here would come a Volkswagen at 70 mph -- top speed -- and pass them all and there was a curve on highway 101 that I called Volkswagen gulch because about 2 or 3 times a year a Volkswagen driver would mess up and die], the US auto industry has not really studied the market. Yet, to be fair, they have been fairly hamstrung by labor contracts including pension and health care costs [not to mention Ralph Nader who so vigorously attacked GM over the Corvair which was no more unsafe or unstable than a Volkswagen], in comparison with the competition. Yet that doesn't obscure the failure to modernize plants and reduce costs of production (again hampered by labor contracts) more vigrorously instead of falling into the wishful dream that the world would not change.
 

SprintED

New member
Ditto on the decade...

IMHO last good vehicles made by NA Auto MFGs were in the late 60's...Sure they would not out handle a Bug but they were for the most part good solid reliable cars.

We own a 1966 4dr chevelle with a 235 CI straight six with a powerglide 2 speed auto...gets 25 mpg on the highway AND our 1964 version with 3 on a tree almost gets 30 mpg on the highway....

Why a 2007 chev impala that gets 30 mpg is supposed to be such a great acheivement is beyond me...Yes I understand about how emissions outputs on new cars are sooooo much lower, but come on! - certainly NA engineers can do better than that in 40+ years.

I just laugh when people go off about hybrid cars like the Prius and how they get 50 mpg...my buddy gets 55+ in his TDI Jetta and there is no doubt in my mind as to which car looks, rides, performs, handles better!

Ed
 

topless

Wichita, KS
What I really want is a twin turbo 600 hp diesel with AWD that runs 11's in the 1/4 mile. Screw the gas mileage, diesels don't detonate and need race gas like my gasoline cars do. Diesel costs more than pump gas but it's a bargain compared to race gas.
 

BaywoodBill

pre-Yuppiedom
Ditto on the decade...

IMHO last good vehicles made by NA Auto MFGs were in the late 60's...Sure they would not out handle a Bug but they were for the most part good solid reliable cars.
Heck, SprintEd, the late 60s were 4 decades ago. The cars were good for what they were but they began losing market share, too. While the (especially) Japanese manufacturers were developing ultra-efficient assembly lines with robotic welders and positioners and while they were planning the strategy to make better cars than the US, the US manufacturers were in the mode I described... paralized by ancient plants, burdensome labor contracts, and status quo thinking.
 

seabumb

New member
My first vehicle, a 1963 Corvair VAN that consistently managed over 30mpg. The several Corvair cars we had did even better, obviously. Ok, so that vehicle series had other issues and old Ralph just had to have something to make himself famous, but still, the FE was there. Oh, and did I mention they were really fun to drive?
 

InnoVAN

New member
This original question and answer sure sounds like a plant. I mean, the guy is quite vague about his Sprinter, tells of some scary sounding problems, and of course has to throw in that 40,000 mile mark. It seems like a great time to jump in with a diesel bashing statement. Just doesn't seem like a rational car guy with any brains if that's his opinion, or more likely it's the position he is paid to take up.

It is the WP, home of the lobbyists.
 

Altered Sprinter

Happy Little Vegemite
This original question and answer sure sounds like a plant. I mean, the guy is quite vague about his Sprinter, tells of some scary sounding problems, and of course has to throw in that 40,000 mile mark. It seems like a great time to jump in with a diesel bashing statement. Just doesn't seem like a rational car guy with any brains if that's his opinion, or more likely it's the position he is paid to take up.

It is the WP, home of the lobbyists.
EGGZACTUALLY.. paid by those, who the most fear! Total corporate failure,
Richard
 

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