Wow! Test Drive of a 2019 519-3500 V6-7speed

HighPockets

Active member
sailquik - I chose the OM651 based on the perception that it's more reliable than the 6 cyl in the NCV3 vans, but more power would certainly be welcome, providing it's reliable.
I have wondered about that perception. Many of those engines run hundreds of thousands of miles and MB uses the same engine with two turbos as an airplane engine. Mine runs flawlessly now that I have taken the polution control stuff off. I love to start off at an intersection going up a grade and when it goes into second gear I accelerate quickly to feel the torque of the engine and look in the rearview mirror to see all the traffic I just left behind.

On the automatic braking my '10 Lexus HS250h has it. If I am off in another world driving on interstate I feel it when it starts breaking for the vehicle ahead. The distance varies with the speed you are going. This gives me notice it is time to change lanes if the situation is right. Light pressing on the accelerator overcomes the breaking action. I have had the car nose dive by the auto breaking but I have never had the guts to rely on it all the way. Only problem is when I am driving another vehicle and put it on cruise "I" have to be on higher alert.

Gene
 

Boxster1971

2023 Sprinter 2500 144wb AWD
Several of us with the 2014-2016 OM-651 2.143 liter 4 cylinder were waiting for it to be re-certified by the EPA or the newer OM-654 to be tested and approved for the USA, but that is not going to happen!
So, I’m going to go with the OM-642 3.0 liter V6
and 7G-Tronic transmission.
I had exceptional service with no issues at all with the OM-642’s I drove before, the only issue was the antiquated 5G-Tronic/NAG-1 transmission and the 2019 OM-642/7G-Tronic fixes that issue!
Roger


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Roger - thanks for the info on the new Sprinter. I noticed you said that the a 4-cylinder turbo diesel was "not going to happen". Did you get some clue on this from your "favorite brand manager"? Is it possible that a smaller diesel might be available later in 2020? I was thinking of a new Sprinter in 2020.
 
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sailquik

Well-known member
Hi Mike,
Well, I have no solid data that the OM-654 (The next generation 4 cylinder diesel from Mercedes Benz) won't at some point be
approved, but they are no longer putting the OM-651 in the cars and SUVS (that I'm aware of) and MB USA seems to have given up
on getting EPA Certification for the OM-651/OM-654 series small 4 cylinder diesels for cars/SUV's/Sprinters.
And yes, my friendly brand manager has been adamant that MBUSA/MBVANS USA are not interested in bringing any small diesels into
compliance and having them certified by the US EPA.
And, it seems we are back to no suspension seats due to NHTSA certification of the various air bag occupant protection systems.
What works, and is approved in my 2014 apparently cannot be certified safe in the 2019.
Sure hope this changes but it seems that the MB USA and MB Vans USA folks that moved from NJ to Atlanta still have no clue what
the Sprinter buying (and to some degree the rest of the MB vehicle lines) public really want, and it seems every little variant has
to have separate EPA Certification/NHTSA crash testing and approvals.
Hope this helps,
Roger
 
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Boxster1971

2023 Sprinter 2500 144wb AWD
Hi Mike,
Well, I have no solid data that the OM-654 (The next generation 4 cylinder diesel from Mercedes Benz) won't at some point be
approved, but they are no longer putting the OM-651 in the cars and SUVS (that I'm aware of) and MB USA seems to have given up
on getting EPA Certification for the OM-651/OM-654 series small 4 cylinder diesels for cars/SUV's/Sprinters.
And yes, my friendly brand manager has been adamant that MBUSA/MBVANS USA are not interested in bringing any small diesels into
compliance and having them certified by the US EPA.
And, it seems we are back to no suspension seats due to NHTSA certification of the various air bag occupant protection systems.
What works, and is approved in my 2014 apparently cannot be certified safe in the 2019.
Sure hope this changes but it seems that the MB USA and MB Vans USA folks that moved from NJ to Atlanta still have no clue what
the Sprinter buying (and to some degree the rest of the MB vehicle lines) public really want, and it seems every little variant has
to have separate EPA Certification/NHTSA crash testing and approvals.
Hope this helps,
Roger
Thanks Roger - I think we can blame VW for this whole mess. It upset the dynamics of automotive industry relationship with the world-wide regulators.

As a result a conservative company like Mercedes-Benz has become very cautious about anything that could potentially upset the regulators and open them to financial risks.

They dropped most diesels in USA market after their certifications got questioned and market share was small. Now the Sprinter OM-642 3.0 liter V-6 is the only Mercedes diesel in the USA/CAN market. We have to face the realities that our market is too small and highly regulated, thus causing financial business decisions by Mercedes-Benz that we might not like.

I'm just glad they have added a better transmission to the V-6 diesel.
 

rvator

New member
Must be a lucky week for 2019 test drives.... Got to drive a 140" WB with the V6 this past weekend. Really impressed with the performance and how it was much quieter then I had anticipated.

Put in my order in on the waitlist for custom orders. Can't wait.....
 

zither99

Active member
Again, I drove the vans, both the new 2019 and the old 2018 the same day (less than one hour between test drives). The dealer did not allow me to do highway driving - it was in the city only, but I was able to accelerate the van to about 65-70 mills. The new transmission is better - NO doubts. But the whole van is basically the same....It's acting like the old one.
Your observations seem in line with what the van actually is, basically some new sheet-metal and updated interior. Oh, and electric steering on the 2WD vans...

I'm sure 5spd and 7spd trannies have some similar ratios so they will accelerate the same. The only benefit I could see is the 7spd is faster shifting and maybe a bit more economical since with the 5spd the van runs at 3000rpm at higher highway speeds.

based on my 2014 sprinter observations, the 4cyl diesel in the sprinter shakes like a tractor at idle compared to the smooth V6, so some will definitely feel more refinement.
 

sailquik

Well-known member
zither99
Well, the BIG difference between the 5G-Tronic/NAG-1 5 speed "not very automatic" transmission, and the 7G-Tronic 7 speed FULLY automatic
transmission is that the 7G-Tronic actually downshifts when it needs to.
The 5G-Tronic "not very automatic" depends on the driver and a Scan Gauge II (or similar performance monitoring device) to manually downshift.
The driver does the manual down shifting, and Scan Gauge II gives the driver the necessary information about WHEN to manually downshift.
I was almost always downshifting the 2006 T1N 2,7 liter 5 cylinder/5G-Tronic-NAG-1 transmission for head wnds, uphill grades, when I was
towing @ >12,000 lbs.
Same thing with the 2010/2011/2012 NCV3 Sprinters with the OM-642 3.0 liter V6/5G-Tronic-NAG-1 transmission.
Then I got the OM-651 2.143 liter 4 cylinder (2 stage turbo-charging) and the 7G-Tronic FULLY AUTOMATIC 7 speed transmission.
I almost never have to downshift manually.... the 7G-Tronic just shifts down, and then back up again so I'm pretty much always
in the optimum gear and RPM range.

If you drive a Sprinter with the 5G-Tronic and you aren't manually downshifting fairly frequently you are not getting the best performance
or the best fuel mileage.
Particularly if your Sprinter is an RV conversion cab/chassis or you are heavily loaded/towing anything heavy.
Hope this helps,
Roger
 
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zither99

Active member
zither99
Well, the BIG difference between the 5G-Tronic/NAG-1 5 speed "not very automatic" transmission, and the 7G-Tronic 7 speed FULLY automatic
transmission is that the 7G-Tronic actually downshifts when it needs to.
The 5G-Tronic "not very automatic" depends on the driver and a Scan Gauge II (or similar performance monitoring device) to manually downshift.
The driver does the manual down shifting, and Scan Gauge II gives the driver the necessary information about WHEN to manually downshift.
I was almost always downshifting the 2006 T1N 2,7 liter 5 cylinder/5G-Tronic-NAG-1 transmission for head wnds, uphill grades, when I was
towing @ >12,000 lbs.
Same thing with the 2010/2011/2012 NCV3 Sprinters with the OM-642 3.0 liter V6/5G-Tronic-NAG-1 transmission.
Then I got the OM-651 2.143 liter 4 cylinder (2 stage turbo-charging) and the 7G-Tronic FULLY AUTOMATIC 7 speed transmission.
I almost never have to downshift manually.... the 7G-Tronic just shifts down, and then back up again so I'm pretty much always
in the optimum gear and RPM range.

If you drive a Sprinter with the 5G-Tronic and you aren't manually downshifting fairly frequently you are not getting the best performance
or the best fuel mileage.
Particularly if your Sprinter is an RV conversion cab/chassis or you are heavily loaded/towing anything heavy.
Hope this helps,
Roger
I noticed this the other day driving on the freeway. I downshifted to 4th gear and the Engine load and fuel consumption on the ScanGaugeII dropped! I thought to myself, "That Roger was right..."
 

Gpaw68

2015 144 4cyl high roof
I was at the Tampa RV show and there was a 2019 chassis cab at the Freightliner booth. I asked about the 4 cyl and the factory rep said yes it will come back but not until 2020.
I did like the new seats that have the thigh extensions.
 
D

Deleted member 50714

Guest
Can the 4-cylinder diesel be idled for extended periods of time without...consequences?
All actions have consequences. It's important to define "idle." There is "normal idle" under 1,000 rpms and high idle, anywhere from 1400 to 1800 rpms, depending on idle option.

IMHO, I have no data, extended normal idle may have detrimental consequences, such as, increased DPF soot and ash load and more frequent DPF regenerations thus shorter DPF service life. Same for high idle but maybe to a to a lessor degree.
 

IdleUp

Member
I spent 40 min talking to the rep at the Tampa show and for the most part, the specs are the same as the 18. He said there was not enough milage difference to mention, so we have a 7 speed that really contributes little to the overall economy.

The best improvements are in the cab with the nice wide display and heated moveable seats.

Overall MB steped back in the past with their styling, it just goofy and cheap looking and nothing you would expect from a company like MB. Sort of reminds me of the big mistake Tesla made on there over-priced goofy looking Tesla X where they have the same nothing look headlight and grille assemble. Of course the X is where they put those wonderful Exotic gull wing doors in the wrong place, so they ended up on the back seat where no body ever uses them or can even see them work. Earth to Elon are you there? . . . . . LOL

Anyhow, good news for the 2018's they will be grabbed up because they still look like an expensive MB vehicle unlike the 2019 with its basic and cartoon looking front end.

Here's a few images guys of the cut-away at the show below.

Regards - Mike
 

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sailquik

Well-known member
Idle Up,
With a Scan Gauge II (or similar) performance monitoring package, and the super slick paddle shifter there may be a significant mileage difference with the 7G-Tronic and the newly remapped/very different tune and best mileage/best performance RPM Range.
Talking to a sales rep at an RV show won’t result in much real world information!
Was the rep with an RV up-fitter company, or from Mercedes Benz MB Vans USA?

Has the rep driven one of the new Sprinters fully up fit and loaded with a Scan Gauge II and actually used all the gears and features offered by the 7G-Tronic/re mapped OM-642 3.0 liter V6?
Roger


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 
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IdleUp

Member
I've been at this for a while and this guy had his head screwed on right- He went on for 10 minutes talking about all the test and ratio changes etc, etc etc, but they could not get enough results to warrant any increase in milage. Remember Guys multi-speed transmissions will produce more milage under two conditions - one you use the high gear as an over-drive or road gear, which MB does not. Another point is the final gear ratios are the same. Second - when pulling full gross weight all the time to have a gear for every situation. The Sprinter seldom runs fully loaded and even if it does its for short periods of time.

Hey Sail do they still make a gauge set that mounts to the windshield column or is Scan Gauge II the only option.


Thanks Mike
 

sailquik

Well-known member
Mike/IdleUp,
You can still buy analog gauges (and gauge panels) that are made to fit on a Sprinter "A" pillar, however
they are usually analog (with numbers and a needle).
Analog gauges do not read to the accuracy and do not normally offer the wide range of different performance
parameters that the digital gauge packages (like the Scan Gauge II) offer.
I have never seen a % engine Load (LOD) analog or round gauge and that is (to me anyway) by far the most important
parameter.
How much did the "rep" tell you about how much the best/most powerful/best performance/best fuel mileage RPM range of the
new remapped (fuel and boost maps have definitely changed) 2019 OM-642 3.0 Liter V6.
It looks like (from my limited time in the test Sprinter 519/3500 with the 4.187 rear differential ratio) that there is a significant
improvement in fuel mileage possible with manual downshifting to lock the engine/trans into a particular RPM range at certain speeds.
Pretty sure the 7G-Tronic ratios in the 2019's are the same as the 7G-Tronic ratios in the 2014-2016 OM-651 4 Cylinder Sprinters.
Manually downshifting my 2014 OM-651/7G-Tronic can get me a little increase in fuel mileage, and with ~ 20 more horsepower the
potential is there to improve the mileage with the new 2019 modifications to the OM-642.
Roger
 
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