E-Bike Fever

glasseye

glasseye

Well-known member
I didn’t realize you had the extra height of 4WD to contend with. Encouraging news for my 72 year old body.

Sure looks good in there. Oh, the fun to be had! Good work on the photos-in-the-forum issue. It’s an opaque procedure at first. :thumbup:
 
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calbiker

Well-known member
Moab is building 100's of miles of new trails. What I've seen, they all have no e-bikes signs. It's obvious when someone had an e-bike on the trail there. The trails are only 12 - 18" wide. E-bikes travel faster and in many places can't stay on the trail. The trails get wider and some places have major cuts - which can only be made by an e-bike. E-bikes also have a lot more torque and will erode the trails faster. I think they are great, but should only be allowed on motorcycle/jeep trails.

Jakelake said:
As an additional note. In Park City, Utah it is not illegal to ride an E bike on mountain bike trails but The Mountain Trails Foundation, which has developed several hundred miles of single track trails in Park City, has requested E bikes stay off the trails.
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TheHerd

New member
If you want to make statements about how bad eMTB are, then please present some facts or sources. Otherwise they are just opinions, and there are already plenty of negative ones from the bicycling ‘purisits’ Out there. If we are talking about opinions, then I think those who are so adamentally against e-bikes are more concerned about their Strava KOM times getting beat, than soil erosion. I do volunteer Mountian trail building in my local area. I can attest that my eMTB (Levo) with it’s wider 2.8 tires, do not erode the soil noticeably more than my regular mtb. There is more surface area displacement (think of a big boat), and the weight helps in the loose soil by packing it down. But that’s just my personal observation.

Now if we are talking scientific facts, studies, and sources. Here you can read about it, e-Mountian Bikes hardly make a difference in soil erosion, and in some cases, do better at less soil damage in different types of soil than a standard Mountian bike!

IMBA Study of Soil Erosion
https://b.3cdn.net/bikes/c3fe8a28f1a0f32317_g3m6bdt7g.pdf

International Mountian Bike Association updated their position on eMTB.
https://www.imba.com/blog/imba-updates-emtb-position-statement
 

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The Grand Tour

The Grand Tour

Banned
TheHerd said:
If you want to make statements about how bad eMTB are, then please present some facts or sources.
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I provided PLENTY of facts and hot-linked the sources.

And my comments were not about violating park policy by using off-road e-bikes on off-road bicycle trails. My comments were about illegally using e-bikes on public roads and other places that are open to cars.
 
glasseye

glasseye

Well-known member
calbiker said:
E-bikes travel faster and in many places can't stay on the trail. The trails get wider and some places have major cuts - which can only be made by an e-bike.
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I'd like to see some hard data on the statement that "E-bikes travel faster" when you're discussing off-road use. From what I've seen of downhill bicycle runs, nothing could move faster - they're already at the limits imposed by Newtonian physics and the repair capabilities of the health care system.

In fact, on downhill runs, where the speeds and terrain damage are the highest, I'd suspect the E-bike riders would be a little more restrained, due to the weight and cost of their rides. As Vic would say, "I have no data".


E-bikes also have a lot more torque and will erode the trails faster. I think they are great, but should only be allowed on motorcycle/jeep trails.
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I've seen no data that demonstrates that E-bikes create more trail damage than pedal bikes. Have any tests been done? I'm also unsure of the statement that "E-bikes have a lot more torque". More time-sustainable torque, yes. But more intensity to the point of trail damage? I think we're seeing opinions here, not facts. I'd like to see some evidence.

The low-pressure, fat, wide tires enabled by E-bike technology will undoubtedly impact the terrain less than narrower, higher pressure tires. Anyone who's ridden a trials motorcycle will attest to this.

New technologies always result in disruption and the downsides of new tech aren't always obvious at first. Drones are the classic example of this and we're only now seeing the results of this tech, both good and bad. What's needed is time, observation and education, not impetuous, ill-informed regulation.

Here's one place I intend riding. Duck Lake, a half hour ride from home. Those fat tires will smooth out that washboard just fine. :thumbup:

Duck Lake Sunset 1024 px.jpg
 
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calbiker

Well-known member
Nice photo!

I'm not talking about downhill biking, but cross country biking. Quit work at 51 to ride the best trails out West. Been doing it a long time. Just this past summer in Moab I see a lot more trail damage made from very fat tires. Cryptobiotic soil gets scars that remain visible for 30 years. Moab now views e-bikes same as motorcycles. They are allowed where motorcycles are allowed.

I also do some trail motorcycle riding. Uphill trails have major groves due to to rear wheel torque. E-bikes don't have as much torque, but still they have significantly more torque than what's produced from pedals. Electric motor torque at stall is extremely high.

glasseye said:
I'd like to see some hard data on the statement that "E-bikes travel faster" when you're discussing off-road use. From what I've seen of downhill bicycle runs, nothing could move faster - they're already at the limits imposed by Newtonian physics and the repair capabilities of the health care system.
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The Grand Tour

The Grand Tour

Banned
calbiker said:
Just this past summer in Moab I see a lot more trail damage made from very fat tires. Cryptobiotic soil gets scars that remain visible for 30 years. Moab now views e-bikes same as motorcycles. They are allowed where motorcycles are allowed.

I also do some trail motorcycle riding. Uphill trails have major groves due to to rear wheel torque. E-bikes don't have as much torque, but still they have significantly more torque than what's produced from pedals. Electric motor torque at stall is extremely high.
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Bingo.
 
glasseye

glasseye

Well-known member
I learned of the fragility of cryptobiotic soil from my first desert adventures in the 70s. Even walking on it will destroy it.

That's very frustrating for a landscape photographer when you know that the perfect place for the camera is "just across this little bare patch". :idunno:

I never succumb to this temptation, eschewing even the smallest of foot prints on any surface, wherever possible. Sand is my only exception. Wind is an excellent footprints eraser.

Equating E-bikes to motorcycles is a false comparison that will unfairly and unnecessarily restrict the use of this new and liberating technology. Each will do damage, as will bicycles, sandals and bare feet. It's in the hands of the operator.

I'm not talking about downhill biking, but cross country biking.
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Why restrict the comparison? Damage is damage.
 
glasseye

glasseye

Well-known member
Hosh said:
New, liberating

Invented 130 years ago https://www.electric-bicycle-guide.com/electric-bicycle-history.html
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But impractical until now.

Oh to be free of fossil fuels, google “lithium mine images” and think about land reclamation opportunities
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I hear you on the battery issue. Unfortunately also true for nearly any electronic device these days.

My fascination with E-bikes has very little to do with climate change and a lot to do with convenience, exercise and fun.
 
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Jakelake

New member
There is a huge difference in a Lithium Ion battery and a Lithium Iron Phosphate battery. LiFePO4 batteries are used almost exclusively in the Ebikes today and you should not buy one with a Lithium Ion battery.
 
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