Mod Idea: Toilet Alternatives

O

OldWest

2004 T1N Westfalia
1. NAFTA Thetford Bravura with Black Tank

Works.

Typical American RV plumbing setup with a black holding tank and 3" discharge hose. Uses freshwater to flush.

The Thetford Bravura looks good.

For most folks, system works.

Disadvantages.

Black tank may be too small (7-10 gallons depending on source). Some folks report only a few days use before full (maybe hold footpedal down too long). Black tank eats up valuable storage space. Some folks don't like discharge hose.

For drycampers/boondockers, frequency of emptying and lack of convenient dump stations are problems.
 
O

OldWest

2004 T1N Westfalia
2. Thetford Cassette Toilet (C400; C403 replacement)

The European James Cook version of our Westies (like most European RVs) used a bench Thetford cassette toilet. The newer replacement version is same fit but slightly curved/sloped on top.

The removable cassette (waste) tank is accessed with Sprinter rear van doors open. The area below the bathroom is open for storage (versus black tank).The toilet also opens up more space in bathroom as the cassette toilet bench style is shallower than the American version Bravura. The cassette toilet can be ordered in either a model which uses its own water supply or a model which plumbs into freshwater tank.

The advantage of the removable cassette tank is the ability to discharge into any toilet. Thus, dumping options are vastly increased. The cassette toilet is good for 50-60 flushes. (Europeans are apparently more flexible re discharging graywater versus often more stringent American discharge of graywater into approved dump stations--varies by locale.)

The prior now defunct James Cook forum (there is a new James Cook Friends forum) has some discussion and a proposal for retrofitting our Westies back to the European cassette version. It would require cutting an opening in rear bathroom wall toward Sprinter back doors and a different shower pan. The costs were high and the proposal apparently never got off the ground.

Now, several folks have done this modification on their own. See Autocamp and Discus (maybe more). Autocamp has a detailed write-up on his blog:

http://eat-drink-men-women.blogspot.com/2013/05/tatyanas-cassette-toilet.html?m=1

The retrofit is quite extensive, requiring modification of the shower pan and a cutout in the rear wall. The end result is a more spacious bathroom, more storage space beneath bathroom, greater flexibility in dumping, etc.

A big disadvantage is the weight of a full cassette tank. While the cassette tank does have wheels, one still needs to remove and lower to ground. A full tank could weigh 40 pounds or so, which may be an issue for some folks.
 
O

OldWest

2004 T1N Westfalia
3. Porta-Potti/Thetford Curve

For folks who want the flexibility of a cassette toilet but do not want to undertake a full retrofit conversion, the replacement of the Bravura toilet with a Porta-Potti like the Thetford Curve may be an option.

The original shower pan remains and, if needed, a larger platform can be mounted onto the original toilet mount (as suggested by Foster in the thread on composting toilets). Autocamp previously reported that the area beneath the original toilet platform is solid plywood built to conform to the toilet stand.

One poster has done this, although no info on which Porta-Potti. The Thetford Curve is quite attractive, should fit (slightly smaller than Bravura but not as shallow as Thetford bench cassette), has optional permanent installation plate, own water tank, 50-60 flushes, etc.

http://www.thetford.com/product/porta-potti-curve/

It is also much cheaper at $125 or so and readily available than the Thetford bench toilet at $600-800 and more difficult to source.

The disadvantages of the Thetford Curve include the weight of the disposal tank, need to fill up the freshwater tank (all through the interior living space), no venting (may or may not be necessary), etc.

For those who may require time to fabricate a DIY composting toilet, this may be a good temporary solution while retrofitting.
 
O

OldWest

2004 T1N Westfalia
4. Urine Separating Composting Toilet

For boondockers who do not have access to dump stations and toilets, cassette toilets/Porta-Pottis still require too frequent emptying and inconvenient or unavailable disposal sites. Also, composting toilets are most ecologically friendly as waterless and no sewage disposal/treatment plants needed.

Composting toilets offer several weeks or more of use. There are generally two types of composting toilets: the older outhouse/pit version where everything is mixed and the newer urine diverting separation toilets. For most effective use, an exhaust fan is used to dry out the solid wastes.

Urine diverting toilets separate liquids from solids during use. This cuts down odors and also reduces the solid wastes volume and weight.

There are several commercially available urine diverting toilets available. These may be installed without modifying shower pan (may need a larger platform base on top of shower pan toilet base). For actual retrofits, see the thread on composting toilets:

http://www.sprinter-source.com/forum/showthread.php?t=42394

Separett Weekend. Beautiful but may be too big for out bathrooms. Has rear exhaust fan. Does not require stirring. Liquids can be plumbed into graywater tank. Solid wastes are contained within a disposable composting bag. http://www.separett.eu/weekend-eu

Air Head. Fits within bathroom space. Has a handle to stir solid wastes, which eventually are scooped out. Liquid wastes are contained in a removable bottle.

The Air Head requires an exhaust fan. For a complete self-contained solution which fits, may be best option. Is expensive at $1,000 or so. Personal dislikes are the price, stirring and later scooping to empty, and the aesthetics.. http://airheadtoilet.com/

Natures Head. Closest competitor to Air Head but slightly too large (deep) for Westy. See Foster's comments in composting toilet thread: http://www.sprinter-source.com/forum/showpost.php?p=472285&postcount=6

Nature's Head is owned by former employees of Air Head.. http://www.natureshead.net/

C-Head. A cheaper alternative to the Air Head and Nature's Head is the C-Head. http://c-head.com/

But the C-Head has a much smaller capacity and may be too large in depth. Also, moves farther away in the beauty contest.
 
O

OldWest

2004 T1N Westfalia
O

OldWest

2004 T1N Westfalia
6. DIY Design Ideas

The Thetford bench cassette toilet dimensions are perfect for our Westies. Make sense as Westies were designed with them originally.

For a DIY, would need to modify shower pan (don't want water underneath the bench).

80/20 T-Slots could be used to make the framework. The top would hold the bowl and toilet seat. The top might extend out beyond the bench like the Thetford or the bench could be a perfect rectangle.

If don't want to modify shower pan, then make a DIY version in the shape of the shower pan toilet base. The end result would look like a Kohler Hatbox toilet where the top and base are the same size (cylindrical).

http://www.us.kohler.com/us/catalog/productDetails.jsp?productId=423609

As the showerpan toilet base is about 16" deepnand 12" wide, the DIY hatbox would need to be slightly wider and overhang the base. The hatbox cylindrical design should be easier to make as could be a single flat metal sheet rolled into shape (Airstream aluminum).
 
O

OldWest

2004 T1N Westfalia
7. Air Head Modification

Not sure, but the Air Head might be modifiable to reduce the depth by moving the liquid receptacle to side. Then toilet seat would be deepest part of Air Head and folks without wide stances would have more footroom.

Also, maybe make a one piece cover panel to make Air Head look more like one piece.
 
O

OldWest

2004 T1N Westfalia
4. Addition

There's another urine diverting toilet available:

http://www.simploo.co.uk/

It looks about the same size as the Separett Weekend. The Simploo does have the option of a self-contained urine bottle while the Separett Weekend only has a drain.
 
O

onemanvan

Active member
Don't know if this alternative has been mentioned before. Have not researched in detail if it's even a viable alternative.

However:

1) If this model has the same 'footprint' as the Bravura - such that it will sit nicely on the existing toilet 'pedestal'.
My 'rough' measurements indicate the footprints are close. IE: 330 X 381 (Bravura) vs 345 X 390 (C220 S)

2) If a 'path' can be forged between the rear of the toilet and the van exterior.
There're a lot of wires, hoses, etc. running through that cavity!

Then for anyone who prefers a cassette toilet it might be worth considering...

The main advantage is it does not require modifying the existing shower pan.
The main disadvantage is it would require cutting an access door in the driver side exterior of the van.

Thetford C220 S/CS ( cassette toilet )

Note: In the dimensional diagram they show a 'box' at the rear of the toilet. The CS model has the box whereas the S model does not. I think this is supposed to represent the space required for the 'plumbing' that protrudes from the rear of the toilet. There might be enough space between the shower wall and the van sheet metal to 'accommodate' these 'protrusions' IE: 105mm required vs 127 available.
 

Attachments

O

OldWest

2004 T1N Westfalia
1. DIY Urine Diverting Toilets Using Premade Toilet

On eBay, there are several portable indoor outdoor toilet pedestal etc. Which might be modifiable into a urine diverting composting toilet.

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&_nkw=Portable+toilet+indoor+outdoor+caravan&rt=nc

https://www.ebay.com/itm/E06-Outdoo...206898?hash=item5d7a621572:g:UNAAAOSwIFtaPLWO

Would need to buy and fit a urine diverter from Kildwick or Separett.

The advantage of using these eBay portable toilets is the pre-made toilet exterior and seat.

A bit more lovely like the Separett Weekend but not as deep in depth (18.8").

These are open on the bottom (for use outdoors as a vault toilet), with two buckets (one closed and one for use with a vault hole?). Some of these models also had a pushbutton or something on the back of the seat which the closed lid pushes down--don't know what that does.

2. Smallest Urine Diverting Toilet on Market

Of course, there is the newest Koodle urine diverting toilet which is a possibility. Kildwick also has a new range of air ventilation, including activated charcoal.

http://www.kildwick.com/product/kildwick-koodle-mini-separating-compost-toilet/
 
O

OldWest

2004 T1N Westfalia
OneManVan's posting of the Thetford C220 is interesting. The toilet bowl swivels, so perhaps the toilet could be installed with the cartridge removed from the rear Sprinter doors like the original James Cook. Of course, you'd have to modify the shower pan base but that'd probably be less intimidating than cutting a hole.in the Sprinter van body.

Another possibility would be to turn into a composting toilet, with removable wastes concealed behind the rear Sprinter doors. This toilet looks like more space for a urine diverter to fit versus the Thetford bench cassette toilet.
 
GeorgeRa

GeorgeRa

2013 Sprinter DIY 144WB, Portland OR
We have 402C and like it lot. We carry a spare cassette so our total volume is 2 x 5 = 10 gal. A difference between 402 cassette and Curve or other Porta-Pottis is ventilation, during cassette insertion vents opens downward, Porta-Pottis don’t have ventilation and their content can get pressurized.

Our design is copied from Safari-Condo design and serves as additional seat or a potoman.
In addition to already mentioned advantages there is one over a black tank system - it is much easier to clean, no plumbing, just rinse it a couple three times and it is pristine clean. For us storing the van inside garage it is important. In previous the house/garage I experienced odor with the camper and the trailer, trailer was occasional but the camper reeked and I never figured out why.

I never even considered the “composting” toilet, they are not really composting but content separators, my vision of discharging #1 and #2 plus post processing cranking just makes me gag, it is me.
 

Attachments

O

OldWest

2004 T1N Westfalia
George:

You did a beautiful job with your conversion and the pottoman looks great too. If you already posted on how you made the pottoman (80/20, dimensions, etc.), a link would be great. Thanks.

I don't have one of the composting separation toilets yet, but the combination of an exhaust fan and drying materials (and no urine) reduce the smell to an earthy one (so folks say). Also, much lighter to dispose versus a heavy cassette toilet. Another Westy owner gives high thumbs up, especially for the long disposal periods.

Our Westies were originally designed with the Thetford bench cassette toilet but then modified for the American market with a black tank and Bravura toilet (eats up valuable storage space).

For sensitive stomachs--don't watch the Martian movie (Matt Damon is stranded on Mars and has to grow his own food --potatoes), and don't plan any space travel.

http://www.newsweek.com/astronauts-living-space-can-eat-bacteria-feed-human-waste-791883
 
GeorgeRa

GeorgeRa

2013 Sprinter DIY 144WB, Portland OR

Attachments

O

OldWest

2004 T1N Westfalia
GeorgeRa's pottoman framework design could also be used to make a bench composting toilet in lieu of the Thetford bench toilet in our Westy bathroom.

Could rest the bench on top of the shower pan lips and the toilet riser (or make a stronger platform like Foster did) or redo the shower pan back to European James Cook like AutoCamp and Discus did.
 
GeorgeRa

GeorgeRa

2013 Sprinter DIY 144WB, Portland OR
Yes, best would be to redesign to fit particulate toilet dimensions. There is an option to go with 1" 8020 instead. Our is very strong, as a matter of fact I added a handle to the upholstered lid to facilitate climbing into the van. Our upholstered lid has change a little, we added more foam and reduced its width to improve staying up.
 

Attachments

GeorgeRa

GeorgeRa

2013 Sprinter DIY 144WB, Portland OR
I had to do some routine personal maintenance in OHSU hospital in Portland and notices a very interesting toilet for DIY job. See the pictures. U water seal not the best for RV, perhaps it could be modified.
 

Attachments

O

OldWest

2004 T1N Westfalia
New toilet idea from Canadian/University of British Columbia students. A urine diverting composting toilet made of mushrooms. You bury the solids container when full. MYCOmmunity toilet.

https://www.fastcodesign.com/90177041/the-toilet-of-the-future-is-made-of-mushrooms

06.22.18
The toilet of the future is made of mushrooms
After it’s completely filled, you bury it in the ground.
1/9 [Image: University of British Columbia]
BY KATHARINE SCHWAB1 MINUTE READ
According to the World Health Organization, 2.5 billion people lack access to modern sanitation services. But a group of students from University of British Columbia has created a toilet out of mushrooms that could solve some of the most pressing problems when it comes to clean, safe sanitation–when the toilet is full, you can plant it the ground where the entire thing becomes fertilizer.

ADVERTISEMENT
The project, called MYCOmmunity Toilet, is the winner of the 2018 Biodesign Challenge, which awards innovative student research at the intersection
Students Valerine Chandrakesuma, Joe Ho, Kateryna Levdokymenko, Jay Martiniuk, and Patrick Lewis Wilkie designed the toilet specifically for refugee camps, where there’s a lack of water and existing sanitation solutions–namely, portable toilets–are expensive to maintain. Because of the smell, the toilets are often placed in a single central location away from living quarters, but that makes them unsafe for women and children to visit at night.

Instead, the MYCOmmunity Toilet consists of a mycelium tank that is small enough to sit inside each individual dwelling. The design of the receptacle divides liquid and solid waste. The urine is treated with either urease enzyme capsules to neutralize the formation of ammonia and begin decomposition of the urine. Feces are covered with a layer of sawdust, coconut husk, or some other kind of local organic waste to prevent the smell and encourage composting to begin. The team says the toilet is designed to be used for about 30 days for a household of five or six people.

Then, when it’s full, the toilet is buried in the ground or left somewhere out of the way for another 30 days to allow the composting process–aided by the mushroom spores–to finish. Each toilet includes local seeds, which can be planted on top of the toilet, allowing plants or crops to grow from the human waste.

[End quote]

For RVers, you could be Johnny Appleseed, or stay in one place and grow potatoes like The Martian.
Click to expand...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Top Bottom