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Old 02-26-2020, 11:34 PM   #11
smiller
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Default Re: Swirl flap mechanicals

Quote:
Originally Posted by showkey View Post
The real issue is EGR is recirculating dirty, sooty, oily and just plain nasty crap back into the intake.
True enough, exhaust gas soot combined with PCV oil mist had got to be almost a perfect recipe for causing the crap buildup that is at the root of these problems.

The diesel emissions puzzle seems to be a series of fixes to fixes... EGR lowers peak combustion temperature to help control NOx, but lower combustion temperatures increase particulate output so you need a DPF to help fix the fix, and so on. SCR systems might help a bit in that they reduce the amount of EGR required, but they in turn generate a host of new and expensive problems on their own. Some systems are better than others in terms of reliability but they all are extremely complex, requiring a lot of knowledge/technical understanding and expensive parts to maintain. Unfortunately from many of the accounts I see here dealers often aren't so good at the knowledge part but are pretty good at swapping expensive parts.

I don't have to worry about EGR/EKAS issues on my current Sprinter and hoping to see a good service life, but sadly I have to say that I wouldn't buy another modern diesel-powered vehicle unless I banked significant funds for the certain expensive repairs down the line and included those in the real cost of ownership. If you're determined to own a new-ish diesel vehicle then service contracts can help (about the only situation I would ever consider one), but they often exclude coverage for emissions systems making them worthless in that regard.

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Last edited by smiller; 02-26-2020 at 11:39 PM.
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Old 02-27-2020, 12:23 AM   #12
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Default Re: Swirl flap mechanicals

So gentlemen, the bottom line is what exactly? Is it a worthwhile mod assuming that everything in this engineering horror show is working?
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Old 02-27-2020, 01:09 AM   #13
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Default Re: Swirl flap mechanicals

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Originally Posted by dharmasprint View Post
So gentlemen, the bottom line is what exactly? Is it a worthwhile mod assuming that everything in this engineering horror show is working?
Are you asking for the opinion of the people that actually own modified vehicles or do modification? Or you simply want the opinion of people that simply talk about it but never owned a modified vehicle or do modification by themselves?
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Old 02-27-2020, 02:22 AM   #14
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Default Re: Swirl flap mechanicals

If anyone here had actual experience using that particular repair kit then I'm sure they would have mentioned it. As to whether it's worth a go or not, depends on some of the things discussed in the thread, such as it the linkage that is foobar or are the flap valves actually stuck in place, etc. But it doesn't look that expensive so I guess it would be worth having on hand when you go in. In the OP you said 'Among the codes...' What other codes are present?
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Old 02-27-2020, 02:24 AM   #15
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Default Re: Swirl flap mechanicals

OK I will chime in.
The earlier CD14 engine was horrible for linkage wear. The driver's side was worst affected on left hookers.
I put that down to the fact that the left bank was closer to the turbo casing than the RHT passenger side, and heat was attacking the rearmost pivot since it wore much more aggressively than the rest! Especially when compared with the right side manifold set.

Of course with that came with oil cooler /HE leaking issue leaking fiasco, and the dumbbell seals fiasco, so we were often pulling it all up again to attend to that problem as well!

Now add the turbo impeller and shaft collapse issues and top end intervention was a very commonplace shop task.

The manifolds in those days were $1150 & $1350 a pair at least they (MB) slung in the new swirl valve motor arr' for that heady price....

Then the CD16 Blurrtech variant came on the scene in 2010 and the same old cooler sealing problems AND the perennial turbo collapse issues came with it.

Now what did change was the engine wiring harness configuration and the introduction of a big silicon rubber wedge plug molded around the harness & it sat in a cavity aft of the EKAS manifold. A bit of a cheap and cheerful addition to the build and it did shield the EKAS linkage system from the heat.
Suddenly we were seeing removed manifolds being used again, simply because the wear issue had been largely reduced. Then it became obvious that Pierborg, the manufacturer had in fact improved the materials used with the linkage & pivots. Of course these issues are largely eradicated today as the items mentioned are far more reliable by product improvement.
Consequently and due to the enhanced reliability we have never actually implemented that modification due to product cut improvements again.

I have to state that the CD14 engine was really a dirty bugger, and carbon build up with oily soot a common observation. Not alone of course! The Ford 6 Litre diesel family suffered with very the same issues in 2008 & 2009.

We have found that a regular BG purge, say every 60,000 to 80,000 miles keeps the upper area cleaned out and free of choking carbon deposits . Beneficial on CD14 for sure!
Dennis

ps about two years ago a new turbo impeller was introduced & that eliminated the sudden and abrupt turbine failures . The thing is now made from a solid billet machine piece instead of an extruded unit.
Phew "after all them yurs they got it right!"
The 5 axis machine must have cost someone millions of dollars to form that impeller!
Dennis
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Old 02-27-2020, 03:08 AM   #16
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Default Re: Swirl flap mechanicals

Quote:
Originally Posted by smiller View Post
If anyone here had actual experience using that particular repair kit then I'm sure they would have mentioned it. As to whether it's worth a go or not, depends on some of the things discussed in the thread, such as it the linkage that is foobar or are the flap valves actually stuck in place, etc. But it doesn't look that expensive so I guess it would be worth having on hand when you go in. In the OP you said 'Among the codes...' What other codes are present?
Other codes are related to glow plugs, of which as many as 4 maybe dead and at least 1 of the NOx sensors and possibly the forward O2 sensor. The engine is the V6 blooper tech and has 220,000 km km the clock.

The van is asleep for the winter but I expect to start poking around the engine come April, assuming that the snow melts on time...... .
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Old 02-27-2020, 01:24 PM   #17
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Default Re: Swirl flap mechanicals

Quote:
Originally Posted by smiller View Post
If anyone here had actual experience using that particular repair kit then I'm sure they would have mentioned it. As to whether it's worth a go or not, depends on some of the things discussed in the thread, such as it the linkage that is foobar or are the flap valves actually stuck in place, etc. But it doesn't look that expensive so I guess it would be worth having on hand when you go in. In the OP you said 'Among the codes...' What other codes are present?
Specifically I have never installed one for the reason I have explained in my last text posting, (i.e product improvement) but that's not to say I haven't seen it applied to an engine we have had to repair.
First of all, for me running a shop business its essential to make sure the EKAS manifolding is in good shape and likely to live through the unrelated warranty period of say oil cooler/HE repair without faulting out, otherwise it will be a comeback.
In short comebacks are costly, and I have calculated that even a simple comeback costs the business a $175 minimum overhead.

We have fixed countless numbers of these engines with EKAS related issues or having discovered during tear down, that they won't go the distance without further wear related failures . So we have to go back to the customer and explain that further replacement costs are involved in the execution of a successful repair being a matter of expediency.

So I can remember now in the mist of time, two such modified EKAS systems which were pulled out and found to have been modified using these linkage arrangements.
I remember the arms were really very worn on fulcrum holes on one and the other had sheered off the arm at the base off #1 cylinder inlet port probably due to a seizure.

I suppose was installing the metal linkages a matter of expediency to recover an largely worn set of EKAS linkages and save $2500 being a salient question.
For a possible answer?
Probably since it worked for a while and then failed with a new owner having to foot the bill for new manifolds.

Since we BG purge such engines before teardown there is a strong evidence to suggest a flow bias exists within the manifold set .The passenger side getting the better air flow on (LHD units ) and #1 cylinder the front left side being the worst.
Since the A side EKAS always seems to fail first by propensity, the answer to some of this probably lies somewhere with air flow since it ends up being a dirty bugger, when having to fix it if it does short trip cycles as an operating norm .
Dennis.

Last edited by lindenengineering; 02-27-2020 at 01:27 PM.
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Old 02-27-2020, 01:47 PM   #18
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Default Re: Swirl flap mechanicals

Which BG formula are you using to do the cleaning? I still have the pressure vessel I used for induction cleaning the Audi engine.
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Old 02-27-2020, 02:43 PM   #19
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Default Re: Swirl flap mechanicals

The expectation that any product injected into the fuel system.......goes through the combustion process, exhausted, gore through the EGR is still going to be solvent capable of dissolving and cleaning and removing built up carbon that been Accumulating for 150,00 miles ?????

There is another post where member metered large amounts of solvent directing into the intake manifold in an attempt to clean the swirl valves. Todd from Wisconsin was the OP.

https://sprinter-source.com/forum/sh...valve+cleaning

Yes, I know some gas engines with direct injection need the intake valves cleaned.......solvents or blasting is often the fix. That’s far different from Diesel EGR carbon which far greater in volume and magnitude.
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Last edited by showkey; 02-27-2020 at 02:49 PM.
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Old 02-27-2020, 03:07 PM   #20
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Default Re: Swirl flap mechanicals

The liquid is BG ISC.
If you have the pressure sensor vessel, then you will need the injector, and the dispenser pipe work, plus of course manifold adapter & air metering air sleeve of some sort which is is supplied in the BG kit .
The big secret is the injector timer which injects fluid every 3 or 12 second pulses.

Essential for engine protection when running & purging.
We also put BG EPR in the engine oil before starting the purge to clean out the lower side of the engine.
Often the crankcase oil comes out like liquid tar on the real dirty buggers we have seen.
Dennis

Last edited by lindenengineering; 02-27-2020 at 03:11 PM.
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