Might my 2003 2500 sprinter have a fuel tank issue?

Long time lurker here. On mobile. I've had my sprinter for 6 yrs and put on 150k miles myself. One issue I've had in past on occasion, and is big problem now, is it suddenly dies at road speed. But it just starts up again after a quick prayer so not a big deal in the past

But the last time it ran for 3 seconds and died. Had to toe it home and I'm now working on it.

I've changed the fuel filter but could not vacuum prime it successfully until I blew low air pressure back towards the fuel tank through the rubber fuel line at the filter.

When I stopped blowing fuel surged towards the filter and I quickly got it placed in the filter and tightened up the clamp. I was able to prime and no bubbles!

It started and idled for 2 minutes then died. It acts as if fuel starved. It won't keep running. I started to drop fuel tank and when opened the fuel cap air rushed in. So I thought it might now run with cap off. Nope.

Is there something easily plugging the line in the fuel tank? Ideas before I pull the fuel tank and look?

Any warnings for me?

Are you sure you were able to prime all the way up to the low pressure fuel pump? And then are you sure all your connections at the FF are good, especially where the water in fuel filter sensor is? I just went through a no start with a 2003 yesterday which was caused by installing a non Mercedes/OEM fuel filter. Very small air leak at the WIF sensor.

After you tried to start, were there still no bubbles all the way up to the pump at the front of the motor?

Here's how I got through it (copied from https://sprinter-source.com/forum/showpost.php?p=656368&postcount=6):

1. Make sure you have the appropriate Fuel Filter properly fitted. MBZ, Hengst, maybe Mann. And make sure all the o-rings are not cracked and or split. and use grease around the o-rings to make sure they go on properly and seal. Install all the fittings other than the fuel entrance portal for this procedure.
2. Acquire (i happened to have on in my garage) one of those cheapO fluid pumps that have variable nozzles types and have a 1/4 - 1/2" tube coming out the end. I think I got mine at NAPA once upon a time to do a rear differential oil change for like $8.
3. Disconnect the exit Voss connector at the low pressure fuel pump at the front of the motor. Disconnect it by pushing the plastic c-clip in, not pulling it out, then gently wiggle the connection out after the c-clip has been pushed in. note - the reason for doing this is so the air has someplace to go. if you don't do this step then the vacuum system keeps the diesel from working to the low pressure pump
4. At the fuel filter, connect the blow (compared to suck) end of your liquid pump onto the fuel filter fuel entrance connection. I didn't need to make this a clamped connection (since we're pushing fuel compared to pulling)
5. At the fuel line that goes to the fuel tank, connect the suck end of the your liquid pump.
6. Before pumping, consider what you're trying to accomplish here.. you're trying to get all the air out of the line, get some fuel into the low pressure fuel pump, and trying not to lose any of the fuel once you disconnect your pump..
7. Pump until you have a small amount of fuel leaking out the exit Voss connection spot at the low pressure fuel pump on the front of the motor. Make sure there is little to no air in the line.
8. Before you pull the connection at the fuel filter, remember #6 and what's about to happen. Gravity is not your friend and will try to push out the diesel. I got my left hand index finger ready and then plugged the fuel entrance line at the fuel filter when I pulled my fluid pump off.
9. While plugging the fuel filter hole with your left hand, wiggle out the fluid pump connection at the line going to the fuel tank and QUICKLY connect the fuel line going to the tank on to the fuel filter fuel inlet portal.
10. Tighten the line up at the fuel filter
11. Reconnect the Voss connector at the exit point on the low pressure fuel pump at the front of the motor. Don't forget you need to pull the c clip to fasten it compare to push it (counter intuitive in my opinion).
12. Check all your connections one last time
13. Crank engine... mine took about 10 seconds before it fired. It understandably ran rough for a few minutes before I pressed the pedal down a LITTLE then all seemed good.

This method, with the inline pump from the tank to prime the FF and the line up to the pump, will help determine if there's something plugging the line. I really doubt you have anything plugging the line.

Thanks for guidance. There are several reasons why I think I've primed it correctly:

I've done it poorly before in the past 150000 miles I've had it.
So when sucking from the low pressures line when disconnected from the front of the engine, long enough period to no longer see bubbles, I was pretty proud that it was done right this time.

I used a brake vacuum to suck, and did several connection sizes to get fittings that worked. One was a small tube which restricted flow. So it would pull 10" of vacuum to suck fuel to the vacuum reservoir. I called it good after seeing no bubbles, but it was still 5" of vacuum. But it didn't prime this first time. It would pull no fuel through the filter the first time I tried and failed.

Only after blowing thru the rubber line back to the fuel tank, with fuel pushing back toward the filter when I stopped blowing , and quickly attaching onto the filter and primed successfully, did the engine run. And it ran for a few minutes. Thereafter it will run a few seconds if I let it sit a 1/2 hr.

Is there something in the fuel tank that might occasionally plug up the line? That would explain previous shutdowns at highway speed with ability for a quick restart. (After it dropped away when fuel use went to zero). It seems like something is solidly stuck in the tank intake now, which was previously just occasionally blocking the intake.

Does anyone have experience in the tanks inner workings?

2003 models will have a simple pick up tube behind a screen in the tank. The return line will run through the thermostatic bypass valve by the fuel filter, and continue to the cooling coils on the back of the tank, and finally back into the tank,next to the pickup.

On top of the tank is one or two vacuum/vent valves. These lets pressure out, and air in to prevent vacuum. They can get plugged by wasps or debris on occasion.

Can you scan the van for codes? It may be unrelated to the bubbles/prime.

Thank you for the information on the pickup tube and vent details. I don't readily have access to a detailed scanner.

Alternatively, I think I will hook up an alternate fuel source tube to the filter, and see if it runs that way. It appears to be somewhat regular fuel line, so I will rig up a gravity flow to the filter. If it runs continuously, then I've isolated it to that part of the van.

If it still not runs continuously, then off to the shop it will go.

Update: Still not running. I took it to a diesel specialist place, with them saying they can hook it up to diagnostics. They were busy, so didn't get to it after I trailered it there. A week later they called and asked how much money I want to spend. (Uhmmmm… like "nothing" if it is a choice I have) I turned it around and they said it would be around $3,000 if they didn't have to remove the head, and possibly $6,000 if remove the head.
Then he described all the carbon under the top cover, leaking gases from all the injectors. Made it sound like it is a lot of work. I suppose they simply wanted to replace all the injectors and start from fresh. (No thanks. I JUST WANT IT TO RUN FOR A WHILE LONGER, not rebuild the whole damn thing. No one else will want to buy/run something with this much rust)

I took the trailer back and picked it up, after giving him $113.00 (I don't think they hooked it up to diagnostics, so still don't have any info) So Today I made time this morning to clean up the "black death" around the injectors, which took about 2hrs. (I used oven cleaner and engine degreaser, and a hook/poker). On a whim, I tried starting it, and still the same thing: It runs for about 2 or 3 seconds the first time, but then when trying it again, for lesser time period.

I put the plastic tubes on the tops of the injectors, and after turning it over for 20 seconds, found #1 and #4 to have very little fuel in the tubes, whereas #2,#3 have about 4 times the amount, and #5 with about 3 times the amount.

I had a spare injector, but didn't know if it was my old #1 or a good one, so I took it to the specialists and asked if they can test it. He said they can rebuild it too (later found out this isn't true)

I went home and pulled #2 and #3 injectors, and delivered them to be rebuilt, and that is when I found out they don't rebuild them. So, I am now going to order 3 injectors, get at least 2 and 3 reinstalled, and see if they will then hook it up to diagnostics. after I trailer it to them. Unless someone can help me:

Again, NO Bubbles in fuel line going to front. So I am pretty sure it is primed well. It will fire and run for a few seconds. But then dies. It is like it gets not enuf fuel.
Any coaching for me? A different mechanic, one that doesn't have diagnostics for this older van, said it sounds like it is the high pressure pump. Where is this? is it something I can replace?

Thanks in advance.

Drop the tank down a bit and find the vent hose(s). Blow air into there. Your tank should not be holding a vacuum, nor should it be building much pressure when blown in from the fuel line. I think you have a clogged vent, and when the vacuum becomes to great to overcome, the engine dies.

Alternatively, you need to find a Sprinter specialist, not a general diesel shop. Worlds of difference in the two.

riesindustries said:

... It is like it gets not enuf fuel.
Any coaching for me? ...

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It may be too bad that things have been messed with. Sometimes that can add to problems.

A simple test to eliminate the fuel tank is to use a held high container of known good fuel connected to the fuel filter inlet. If the engine starts and runs that points to something before the fuel filter.

If it is fuel quality related it may take a bit of running time to purge the old and get good fuel introduced.

Good luck.

vic

I'm new to Sprinter, my new to me '02 Freightliner has bubbles in the fuel line so I am reading up on fueling issues 0n '02-3 612 engines.

Wouldn't removing the fuel cap solve any plugged vent issues temporarily?

bill

billintomahawk said:

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Wouldn't removing the fuel cap solve any plugged vent issues temporarily?

bill

Click to expand...

It should.

vic

This seems to indicate that the fuel tank is not my problem, but the truck problem persists.
More of my experience on this:

1. I tried to run it without the fueling cap on... it made no difference. It fires and tries to run, but doesn't run.

2. When I said earlier that I unscrewed the fuel cap, and it sounded like it was vacuum, and air rushed in, I now THINK it might have been the other way around... That it was pressurized, and air was coming out. (Previously, I might have tried to blow thru the fuel line while the fuel cap was on)
This led me to a different path for filling up the fuel filter:
3. With my newfound experience, after I got a brand new authorized fuel filter and put it in, I did all of the connections, except for the center one, and the line coming from the tank. I then made sure the fueling cap was on the tank filler, then blew some air thru the fuel filter's fuel supply line hose.... then when I pulled the air pressure hose from the fuel line hose, fuel started coming out. I quickly put it on the fuel filter, tightened up the hose clamp, and waited until the fuel started coming up the center of the fuel filter, and when it did, I put the center connection onto the filter. It was the easiest way I've found to fill the fuel filter. ( Yet, I suspect it shouldn't be this way? Regardless, I feel the same as others: If I don't have the fuel cap on, the possible fuel tank vent problem shouldn't be an issue. )
This is when it ran for about 5 seconds, but died. Thereafter it ran for a spurt or 2.

So, my post's title is wrong, but my problem persists. As soon as I get the 3 rebuilt injectors, I will install them, with this hopefully fixing the problem.
But this leads me into other questions: When I pulled the injectors, the copper seal/washer did NOT come out with them. How do I get the washer out? Do I need to do anything special to clean the tube the injectors are mounted in? And what else will I need to know when reinstalling injectors that have had black death leakage past them?

If there is air in the LP Pump and/ or HPP from the fuel filter change, it will act this way and stall. After it stops running in 3 secs, do you run the starter for 1 minute to get the air out of the engine side? If not , try that. Use your starter for 1-2 minutes continuously and see if it starts. It can only start when there is optimum internal fuel pressure, unachievable with air in HPP until it's purged out this way.

As for stalling on hwy, does it stall only when accelerating? It could be the worn out/ leaking O-ring on the the fuel rail's back solenoid valve

Yes, I run the starter, hoping to purge any air, with it "trying to run" for repeatedly briefer periods. If I quit for a week or so and try starting, it will run for 4 or so seconds, then each time for a shorter period.

So, as it sits, I am waiting for 3 new injectors, but it will be a week or so. My next step is to assure I put the injectors in correctly. I am pretty sure the challenge at hand soon is to get the old copper seals out. Any suggestions? Thanks to all of you for help so far. I am hoping that the ills were from bad injectors, and when I turn the key the next time it will fire up and keep going!

A dental pick works well.

riesindustries said:

Yes, I run the starter, hoping to purge any air, with it "trying to run" for repeatedly briefer periods. If I quit for a week or so and try starting, it will run for 4 or so seconds, then each time for a shorter period.

So, as it sits, I am waiting for 3 new injectors, but it will be a week or so. My next step is to assure I put the injectors in correctly. I am pretty sure the challenge at hand soon is to get the old copper seals out. Any suggestions? Thanks to all of you for help so far. I am hoping that the ills were from bad injectors, and when I turn the key the next time it will fire up and keep going!

Click to expand...

you may need a very long bolt/screw to snag the copper washer out with the threads into it

This is the tool I made to fish out my seal... thanks to Bobbit and Leggit Garage on youtube.
The folded end fits through and the sharp point snags the rim on the way back up.
I used steel TIG wire, but coat hanger wire would do.

-dave

riesindustries said:

When I pulled the injectors, the copper seal/washer did NOT come out with them. How do I get the washer out? Do I need to do anything special to clean the tube the injectors are mounted in? And what else will I need to know when reinstalling injectors that have had black death leakage past them?

Click to expand...

My trick... go to your local hardware store and get one of those plastic barbed stick things used to get hair and stuff out of a clogged drain. The barb goes through the hole of the ring and you can pull it right out.

A tapered reamer works incredibly well. Doktor A. recommended it to me.

Hi Everybody.
I got an injector puller and replaced #5 injector. It RUNS. IT RUNS NOW!! but: When trying to pull the injector without the puller, I caused some damage to the area behind that injector. Please look at the photo and tell me how bad I hurt it. when I run the engine, there is no blow by or exhaust coming from the hole. (When looking at the photo, the hole is the aluminum color, probably the size of the diameter of a cigarette. The fuel line is pointing towards this hole. )

I am thinking of pulling #5 again, so I can get good access to it, then getting some jbweld or other stuff to make a cap for it. Yes, I suppose aluminum pieces fell down below, and if it is easy to pull this aluminum cover off and weld it, I'd do it. How easy is it to pull? Is this part of the head? I only want to get another 40k miles out of this before I can retire it to a junk yard. I can't spend much time/money on it. Any advice?

riesindustries said:

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I am thinking of pulling #5 again, so I can get good access to it, then getting some jbweld or other stuff to make a cap for it. Yes, I suppose aluminum pieces fell down below, and if it is easy to pull this aluminum cover off and weld it, I'd do it. How easy is it to pull? Is this part of the head? I only want to get another 40k miles out of this before I can retire it to a junk yard. I can't spend much time/money on it. Any advice?

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Don't pull the aluminum cover.

I repaired the 2004 cracked cover with JB Weld 6+ years and 100,000+ miles ago. Clean off the oil very thoroughly with acetone or other solvent

Aqua Puttana said:

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As it turns out, hammering on the injector with the squared off chisel was not a smart move. I ended up with an oil seeping crack in one corner of #2 injector valley. The good news is that so far scraping the area clean, wiping with acetone, and then sealing the valley with JB Weld seems to have worked. Doktor A commented that the aluminum head cover is as fragile as an egg shell. There are many thin areas in the casting. The pull bolt injector removal tool is designed to stay close to the injector where the casting is stronger.

...

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If the cracked hole seems too large use a bit of screen or mesh material to bridge the gap.

There is little pressure in the chamber. There are no parts under the cover that should be affected by a small piece of aluminum.

vic