Sprinter-Forum    
 

Go Back   Sprinter-Forum > Sprinter-Based RV's & Conversions > Sprinter-Based RV Brands > Roadtrek


 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-02-2019, 06:11 AM   #11
BobLLL
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Pacific Northwest, USA
Posts: 534
Thanks: 131
Thanked 188 Times in 134 Posts
Default Re: Agile battery separator

The monitor panel switch only disconnects the circuits in the fuse box. The inverter is fed directly from battery. Also the sofa and the door step are connected directly and will operate even with the monitor panel switch off.
__________________
Bob
2011 Roadtrek SS Agile

Last edited by BobLLL; 06-02-2019 at 06:19 AM.
BobLLL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2019, 08:44 AM   #12
irvingj
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Etna, NH
Posts: 1,002
Thanks: 809
Thanked 411 Times in 290 Posts
Default Re: Agile battery separator

Dick and BobLLL, once again, thanks for the explanation! I had no idea these things used a VSR on the battery cut-off/separator and how that works.

I recall that when we bought ours in 2015, it came with an info packet for the Tripp-Lite inverter, but that's not what we had -- I had to go online, find the mfr, and download the correct manual for our inverter, a Chinese PowerStar LW3000-12-C 3KW unit.

Just went out and checked, and yes, the sofa operates even when the battery switch is in the OFF position; didn't know that! Ours has an unusual arrangement (never seen another one set up like ours, though there must be one somewhere), using the "underhood generator" --actually just a second, dedicated-to-the-coach-batteries alternator-- as well as 300W of solar on the roof and four 6V VRFLA coach batteries.

Ours must have a different VSR (?) arrangement as well, concerning the inverter and parasitic drain -- the first year we had it I left the starting battery connected during storage -- didn't know about the disconnect by the gas pedal -- and it still started up just fine after 5 months. Coach battery switch was off, of course. (Since then I've disconnected the battery during storage.)

So I still don't know just how ours is wired, but we've never experienced issues like Inspector has.
__________________
2015 RT SS Agile, 3.0 V-6

Last edited by irvingj; 06-02-2019 at 08:49 AM.
irvingj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2019, 05:52 PM   #13
autostaretx
Erratic Member
 
autostaretx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Seattle
Posts: 17,394
Thanks: 3,045
Thanked 7,853 Times in 5,728 Posts
Default Re: Agile battery separator

If you have two alternators on the engine, there is no reason to have an automatic "join" to connect the starter battery to the house battery.

A *manual* one to give you "starter assist" (when the starter battery is dead), i can see.
But always paralleling two alternators when the engine's running would only cause confusion.

--dick
__________________
2005 T1N 118" Freightliner 2500 Passenger Wagon (2.7L, 15" tires, standard (short) roof)
Get YOUR Sprinter's full configuration datacard by entering your VIN to https://www.datamb.com/
http://diysprinter.co.uk/reference <-- lots of service documentation, Thanks to Jens Moller and Arnie_Oli
((as always: this post may go through a couple of post-posting edits... so maybe give it ten minutes before commenting))
autostaretx is online now   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to autostaretx For This Useful Post:
irvingj (06-04-2019)
Old 06-02-2019, 07:38 PM   #14
Inspector
2012 Roadtrek Agile
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 436
Thanks: 24
Thanked 31 Times in 23 Posts
Default Re: Agile battery separator

Autostarext, now that I'm aware of the VSR separator I can adjust how I charge the batteries, it's amazing the wiring techniques applied in these vans.
BOBLLL, i'm still trying to wrap my mind around how the inverter is connected with out any disconnect along with the sofa etc. I can see how the coach batteries became discharged from the inverter but I'm baffled by the starting battery being flattened or is the VSR separator guilty? We have had the Agile since Dec. of 2011 and never had a starting battery problem after sitting. We had the starting battery replaced in Feb. of this year due to age not failure and now problems. M-B tested the battery deeming it OK, they did a parasitic draw test deeming it within M-B limits....
I just don't know.
Irving, what disconnect were you referring to by the gas pedal?

I REALLY appreciate the help!
__________________
2012 Roadtrek Agile
Stockton, CA
Inspector is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2019, 08:36 PM   #15
irvingj
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Etna, NH
Posts: 1,002
Thanks: 809
Thanked 411 Times in 290 Posts
Default Re: Agile battery separator

Not sure if all Sprinters have this, but on my 2015 there's a starting battery disconnect sort of behind the accelerator pedal. You just lift up the red tab, then the plug pulls (outward) off a metal stud that's mounted to the floor panel and is connected to the positive (I believe, but maybe it's a ground) battery connection.

Bobnoxiuos points out that it's a good idea to check the connection beneath; apparently there have been instances of corrosion and compromising that stud's electrical connection.

Pulling that plug off is supposed to completely disconnect the starting battery from the truck's electrical system. Note the warning label there, advising to wait 10 minutes before disconnecting it after engine shut-down.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg DSC07528.jpg (99.4 KB, 30 views)
File Type: jpg DSC07529.jpg (84.2 KB, 29 views)
__________________
2015 RT SS Agile, 3.0 V-6

Last edited by irvingj; 06-02-2019 at 08:44 PM.
irvingj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2019, 09:23 PM   #16
Cheyenne
UK 2004 T1N 313CDi
 
Cheyenne's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Birmingham UK
Posts: 2,696
Thanks: 128
Thanked 1,685 Times in 1,168 Posts
Default Re: Agile battery separator

Quote:
Originally Posted by irvingj View Post
...You just lift up the red tab, then the plug pulls (outward) off a metal stud that's mounted to the floor panel and is connected to the positive (I believe, but maybe it's a ground) battery connection.
It is actually the main starter battery GROUND connection.

As you rightly said, the stud is threaded into the metal of the floor panel. If it where the positive lead there would be fireworks!

Keith.
__________________
2004 UK Spec 313CDi (OM611 2.2 litre 4 Cylinder Manual Non-ABS)
Auto-Trail 'Cheyenne' Coachbuilt Motorhome
36,000 miles from New

Sprinter reference info site http://diysprinter.co.uk/reference/
Cheyenne is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2019, 10:32 PM   #17
autostaretx
Erratic Member
 
autostaretx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Seattle
Posts: 17,394
Thanks: 3,045
Thanked 7,853 Times in 5,728 Posts
Default Re: Agile battery separator

That negative disconnect is apparently a "standard option" on all US/Canada-delivered NCV3 Sprinters.
The owners' manual discusses it.

It doesn't exist in T1N (2006 and earlier) Sprinters.

--dick
__________________
2005 T1N 118" Freightliner 2500 Passenger Wagon (2.7L, 15" tires, standard (short) roof)
Get YOUR Sprinter's full configuration datacard by entering your VIN to https://www.datamb.com/
http://diysprinter.co.uk/reference <-- lots of service documentation, Thanks to Jens Moller and Arnie_Oli
((as always: this post may go through a couple of post-posting edits... so maybe give it ten minutes before commenting))
autostaretx is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2019, 10:42 PM   #18
Inspector
2012 Roadtrek Agile
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 436
Thanks: 24
Thanked 31 Times in 23 Posts
Default Re: Agile battery separator

Cheyenne, Autostarext, I assume if the connection is removed by the gas pedal, it kills 12v to the van?. With the connection being red, it seems mis-tagged as a ground. Irvingj My van has the connection that I some how overlooked.
Note, I just checked the starting battery and it was down some after sitting 24 hrs, enough it cycled the separation disconnect....crud.
__________________
2012 Roadtrek Agile
Stockton, CA

Last edited by Inspector; 06-02-2019 at 11:10 PM.
Inspector is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2019, 12:12 AM   #19
irvingj
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Etna, NH
Posts: 1,002
Thanks: 809
Thanked 411 Times in 290 Posts
Default Re: Agile battery separator

Inspector, I've noticed that my starter battery will begin to show a measureable discharge, sitting in the driveway and not being started, in as little as 3 days... and yet, I have to say it has never (yet) failed to start for me.

However.... (and here it comes)... there have been numerous discussions on how these Sprinters definitely do NOT like low voltage conditions. Most times no problem, but there has also been anecdotal evidence of numerous weird/unexplained/mysterious (etc.) glitches and codes that have appeared that seem to be related to low voltage conditions upon startup.

Who knows? These computer-controlled systems can be finicky, that I know from the early days of "desktop" computers. In any case, it would seem that low voltage situations would best be avoided: bad ju-ju no matter how you look at it.

What I've done with mine, since I have solar panels, is to install a Trik'l-Charge unit that will siphon off excess voltage from the solar panel/coach battery end of things and put that into the starter battery. It has worked well for me. You might perhaps get some sort of a small, "smart" trickle charger to keep connected to your starter battery when your Sprinter is sitting idle, if you don't disconnect it at that ground-interrupt plug by the accelerator pedal.

-- And don't feel bad about missing that disconnect! I missed it entirely the first year I had our Roadtrek SS Agile, even though I went through the owner's manual --carefully, I thought-- twice. It took somebody on this forum to hit me hard enough on the head with a two-by-four to see the light....!!
__________________
2015 RT SS Agile, 3.0 V-6
irvingj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2019, 05:06 PM   #20
BobLLL
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Pacific Northwest, USA
Posts: 534
Thanks: 131
Thanked 188 Times in 134 Posts
Default Re: Agile battery separator

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inspector View Post
I'm still trying to wrap my mind around how the inverter is connected with out any disconnect along with the sofa etc. I can see how the coach batteries became discharged from the inverter but I'm baffled by the starting battery being flattened or is the VSR separator guilty?
The auxiliary battery has three wires on its positive terminal. One wire runs along the firewall to the battery separator. The second wire runs under the van back to the propane-powered generator. The third wire runs to a circuit breaker near the battery, then runs under the floor and connects to the +12v terminal on the charger converter. So this terminal is always hot, as it is supplied directly from the battery. There are three additional wires connected to that hot terminal on the charger/inverter.

A heavy-gauge wire connected to the hot terminal carries power to a relay that is also under the seat. This relay is controlled by the switch on the panel over the door. When engaged, the relay connects power to a wire that feeds the fuse box behind the drivers head.

This is a confusing mess that took me awhile to figure out. If you look closely at the wiring schematic in the RT manual, the direct connection to the inverter is shown. But the sofa and door step connections are not shown at all. And no mention of any of this anywhere else in the manual.

Two smaller gauge wires connected to the hot terminal carry power to the sofa and door step. (Note that door steps installed as original equipment by MB might be powered by the starting battery, but our steps were installed by RT and are powered by the auxiliary battery.)

So as you can see, the charger/inverter, the sofa, and the door step are all connected directly to the battery, and are not affected by the "battery disconnect switch".

As to the drain on your starting battery, I haven't much to offer. It is possible that the battery separator is malfunctioning and not disengaging sometimes, or not disengaging at the correct voltage (12.8). This could be an intermittent problem -- it works fine whenever you look at it, but sometimes fails when your back is turned.

I would try this first:
1. disconnect the ground wire from the separator to disable it.
2. connect a battery charger to the aux battery.
3. check that the voltage on the aux battery is rising, but the starting battery is not. (confirming that the separator is really disengaged.)
4. when the aux battery is fully charged, connect the charger to starting battery.
5. when both batteries are fully charged, disconnect the charger.
6. check the voltages after several hours, or however long it takes to determine whether the starting battery is still discharging too quickly. If the discharge rate is clearly not as bad, the separator is suspect.
__________________
Bob
2011 Roadtrek SS Agile
BobLLL is offline   Reply With Quote

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT. The time now is 06:27 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.