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Old 12-14-2014, 06:51 AM   #11
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Default Re: DIY version of Outside Van bed panel frames?

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Originally Posted by the.vault View Post
RB components sells a panel by itself. It looks to be aluminum square tubing welded and bolted to some plywood.

http://www.rbcomponents.com/van-prod...ior/panel-beds

If you wider aspect ratio tubing, rectangular versus square you could probably get away without welding. I should really explore that more.

I've also been thinking about doing something with some of the honeycomb core plywood.
Those products have significantly higher strength and stiffness to weight ratios than solid plywood.
Yeah. But of the ones you can buy, these ones are the best engineered in my opinion. 1200 would be the right price imho.
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Old 12-14-2014, 05:17 PM   #12
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Default Re: DIY version of Outside Van bed panel frames?

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You could use panels built from either 80/20 Quick Frame 1” square tube or 1” T-slot profile. Personally, I would build 3 panels and double the front of the front panel due to the higher sitting load. See load results for 7 bars 75 ea. with reasonable deflection so total load - 7x75lb=525lb.
GeorgeRa,
How would you suggest connecting the 80/20 1" square tube? My perception (perhaps wrong) is that the only 80/20 connectors for the 1" square tube are press-in nylon corners, which seem inappropriate to this application.

I have no doubt one could solve this problem w/ 80/20, but I think its going to be difficult for 80/20 to compete cost-wise with solutions like the ATV ramp noted above by bertko ($30 per 69x13 ramp).

Coincidentally I will be driving within 50 miles of the 80/20 headquarters next week, so I could pick up a load of 80/20 without paying shipping, if I decide to go this route.
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Old 12-14-2014, 06:31 PM   #13
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Default Re: DIY version of Outside Van bed panel frames?

Not that anyone asked...

I saw 69" frame size mentioned. If my memory is correct I think that 78" ... maybe 76"?? per subsequent posts ...is one of the common RV mattress dimensions. 78" - 69" = 9"/2 = 4.5" overhang.

When using a 3/8" or thicker plywood decking the plywood can easily be cantilevered quite a distance over the frame without any worry. Even though it may flex just a little, plywood is quite strong. The frame proper doesn't necessarily need to be directly under the edge of the platform.

Using a bit of overhang may open up some smaller prefabricated choices for consideration.

I prefer having a bit smaller deck sections for storage so my aluminum section cross structure with sectioned deck works well for me. Other than that, the 3/4" plywood without support frame sounds like an easy deck installation.

vic

P.S. - Note that the RB Enterprises platforms are attached to the side walls with no center supports or columns transferring down to the floor.

FireTrapUnder.jpg

P.P.S.- Also note that they give no access to the rear door handles with the bed deck in place. You can be trapped within the steel cave with no exit in the event of a fire forward.

firetrapbed.jpg
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Old 12-14-2014, 07:30 PM   #14
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Default Re: DIY version of Outside Van bed panel frames?

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Originally Posted by Inertiaman View Post
GeorgeRa,
How would you suggest connecting the 80/20 1" square tube? My perception (perhaps wrong) is that the only 80/20 connectors for the 1" square tube are press-in nylon corners, which seem inappropriate to this application.

I have no doubt one could solve this problem w/ 80/20, but I think its going to be difficult for 80/20 to compete cost-wise with solutions like the ATV ramp noted above by bertko ($30 per 69x13 ramp).

Coincidentally I will be driving within 50 miles of the 80/20 headquarters next week, so I could pick up a load of 80/20 without paying shipping, if I decide to go this route.
If you choose to use the slotted profile I would recommend to use the end connectors, see the picture. I believe that either the Quick Frame with plastic corner connectors or slotted profile should work.

The strength of the assembly could come from choices of the filler panels and assembly techniques. I was looking at RB panels, wow, a lot of Al welding I am not surprise that they cost so much.

I went through this exercise a couple of years ago so just modified it for the bed panels. I ended up with HDPE for esthetic reasons. If I would need to build bed panels today I would choose:
- 9025 Quick Frame with 2x6mm and 1x8mm double wall polycarbonate filler panels.
- and as a second choice 1010 t-slot profile with 1x6mm and 2x8mm double wall polycarbonate filler panels.

In both cases I would use adhesives, likely polyurethane, to attach polycarbonate to aluminum frames to form this composite sandwich. I would not worry about plastic fittings on the Quick Frame, big part of the panels strength would come from these polycarbonate panels. With Quick Frame there is going to be an air gap between the middle and the outer panels, would use 3M VHB strips to joint these panels.

I would recommend to ask Hein for comments regarding choices of adhesives and filling panels as well, he is the expert.

Double polycarbonate panel’s layup direction is important to provide maximum strength, I would pick at least the middle panel “grain” to be along 72” dimension.

Assuming 3 x 72”x25” panels:
#9025 Al frames cost - $99, #1010 slotted frames - $134 ($0.17/in and $0.23/in)

Weight per single panel:
#9025 – 5.7lbs. Al frame, polycarbonate panels – 10.6lbs. = 16.3lbs.
#1010 – 8.1lbs. Al frame, polycarbonate panels – 11.1lbs. = 19.2lbs.

The cost of polycarbonate will be about $80/6mm 4’x8’ sheet yielding 2x70”x23” pieces = $40/sheet.

Good luck,

George.

PS; I just finished assembling the first leaf for my 2 leaf swivel table from 9025 material and like it a lot.
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Old 12-14-2014, 07:43 PM   #15
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Default Re: DIY version of Outside Van bed panel frames?

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Originally Posted by Aqua Puttana View Post
Not that anyone asked...

I saw 69" frame size mentioned. If my memory is correct I think that 78" is one of the common RV mattress dimensions. 78" - 69" = 9"/2 = 4.5" overhang.

.............................................
In my view it is also the key dimension, our rock & roll sofa bed is 54" x 76" which is full size bed, just bought the cover for it which is 54"x 76".

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Old 12-14-2014, 08:09 PM   #16
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Default Re: DIY version of Outside Van bed panel frames?

Yes, that is an issue with going sideways. I have a short 118 with a back seat. This limits me to sideways, or hanging it about 48" off the ground.
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Old 12-14-2014, 09:03 PM   #17
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Default Re: DIY version of Outside Van bed panel frames?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aqua Puttana View Post
I saw 69" frame size mentioned. If my memory is correct I think that 78" is one of the common RV mattress dimensions. 78" - 69" = 9"/2 = 4.5" overhang.
Not an issue in my case, since the bed will be oriented lengthwise w/ the van and the bed panels will be across the van (ie, sleeping perpendicular to the panels). So 66-69" range is a pretty ideal length for placement across the van.

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P.S. - Note that the RB Enterprises platforms are attached to the side walls with no center supports or columns transferring down to the floor.
Yep, that's one of my primary reasons for using this approach -- I don't want any support structures inhibiting loading/storage options underneath. Hence the need for a pretty strong frame/platform.

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P.P.S.- Also note that they give no access to the rear door handles with the bed deck in place. You can be trapped within the steel cave with no exit in the event of a fire forward.
I noticed that too, although my concern wasn't fire, it was exiting the van to pee in the middle of the night. The "lobe" on the RB platform which extends into the door "cavity" is probably nice for additional support, but as you've pointed out, I wouldn't want it to extend so far that you couldn't reach the door handles. Its an easy thing to design around; all you really need is appropriately positioned gap(s) for a hand.
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Old 12-15-2014, 01:03 AM   #18
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Default Re: DIY version of Outside Van bed panel frames?

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... Its an easy thing to design around; all you really need is appropriately positioned gap(s) for a hand.
I added access after the fact to the back door handles in my T1N. The more appropriate description is "for your arm". The access openings needed to be a bit larger than I anticipated. I first cut an access which barely worked. I then enlarged it to allow easier access. Keep in mind that you are basically lying down when trying to access the interior handle.

I wouldn't minimize the importance of escape from the steel cave. We often sleep with our heads down at the back door end so we are where our roof vent is positioned. One can pretty quickly become disoriented or overcome by smoke should something go wrong.

vic
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Old 12-15-2014, 01:56 AM   #19
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Default Re: DIY version of Outside Van bed panel frames?

I'm new to the forum, as I've just started doing research on buying and converting a Sprinter into an RV. As I've been considering the same kinds of issues, I wondered if maybe this product from Ikea might be a cheap solution: http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/pr...785/#/50160213. (search for "LUROY" on Ikea's website if that link is junk). I was thinking of building cabinets on both sides and using this to span from "countertop" to "countertop". I have been considering the practicality of a raised floor and storing this under it and then setting up to sleep on it. I don't have a van in front of me to really think it thru, but for the price, it is certainly worth thinking about.

ian
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Old 12-15-2014, 02:15 AM   #20
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Default Re: DIY version of Outside Van bed panel frames?

If I would have to repeat the conversion I would use the Froli system below thinner foam mattress. You can adjust different strength for different part of the bed. This system would be ideal for 3 panel set-up due to light weight. For the first time I saw it on a Westfalia camper.
http://www.nickleatlantic.com/

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