Harmonic Balancer Condensed (somewhat) Information
Search: Repair replace remove install T1N OM647 OM612 vibration damper pulley sheave dampner
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Added:
There has been discussion as to whether the Harmonic Balancer HB should be changed on a schedule.
My opinion.
There are pitfalls and traps for DIY HB proper replacement.
If the operator(s) is aware and listening for odd noises from an engine then periodic replacement is not what I would suggest. If the ring loosens and makes noise, then removal of the failed ring allows full operation until repairs can be effected.
If the truck is operated by less than mechanically inclined, engine aware operators (aka: the clueless whose idea of maintenance is adding fuel) then periodic replacements may have substantial benefit.
***********
First.
Thanks goes to all contributors.
*****************
If you are on the road and discovered the loose ring, the ring can be removed to allow driving many hundreds of miles without issue. REMOVE THE RING. Pressing on with a loose ring has danger of further damage. Removing the ring gets you home.
Added:
Mover_boy claimed running 15,000 miles without the ring.
From Lindenengineering Dennis.
Just a cautionary tale .
I do have an engine on the floor, or what's left of it , with busted crank between 2 & 3 cylinder and wrecked block. The owner removed the insecure element and drove it for 2 months, before it all went Kahboom in a big way .
Maybe he was unlucky .
Dennis
My comment:
Removing the ring to get to proper service can avoid problems, many have done that successfully. It would appear that there is some risk so it is best to not push it longer than needed.
Here's an artistic rendering of the belt routing by a talented local artist.
]
Added:
For those who may be fearful of removing a failed HB ring and driving for a period of time until effecting proper repairs.
Mover_boy has run 15,000 miles without the ring.
***************************
The general information for repair starts here.
General comments.
There are at least a few failure modes. The rubber mounted balance ring can separate or become loose. The spokes of the Harmonic Balancer HB can crack/fail. The retaining bolt can fail. The bolt failing generally results in crank nose or key related issues.
Periodic inspection of the HB may reveal rubber separation or spoke cracks before critical failure. It is generally accepted that the double belt HB for rear air conditioning is more prone to failure.
A separated/detached ring on the Harmonic Balancer HB can be removed to allow using the Sprinter until the proper repair can be effected. Members have driven many hundreds of miles after removing a separated ring. I personally would keep the speeds/rpm down a bit. I have no idea of the consequences of operating without the ring, but would be willing to risk it as oppoesed to being stuck.
There have been some problems with aftermarket HB's. The general recommendation is to stay with OEM or at least OEM supplier brand.
The bolt and washer must be replaced. Do not re-use either of them. Many repairing/replacing the HB don't change the seal. At about 15 bucks for the part it is not a bad idea to do so while everything is apart.
Torque Spec = 240 FOOT/POUNDS (325N·m) plus 90 degrees assuming a grade M10.9 bolt.
Part Numbers
(Verify before ordering.)
PULLEY-CRANKSHAFT - Some possible selections.
Dodge 5103998AB
DODGE 05103972AB, 5103972AB
MERCEDES-BENZ 611 030 03 03, 611 030 17 03, 612 030 00 03, 647 030 01 03
FEBI BILSTEIN 32107
Bolt =
The 2004 bolt aka screw was originally listed as (Dodge) 05073696AA or MB N000000001884 (?)
Washer =
The 2004 washer under the head is (Dodge) 05080005AA or MB A6049900040
Seal = Dodge 05073675AB (?) or MB A0239978447
or National/ Timkin seal 710289
Key = The new key design part # 05170759AA (will sometimes fit a damaged nose end).
Note: Apparently the key design was changed for 2006 models. I don't know the exact crossover dates. It is probably listed somewhere by VIN number.
There are many good pictures in this thread.
T1N Harmonic Balancer Failure
http://www.sprinter-source.com/forum/showthread.php?t=28476&
A small collection of some of the available information in no particular order.
As always the original post/thread can be accessed by clicking the blue arrow icon within any quote box.
I'll start with this.
That's enough from me for now. Do a search or click on the blue arrow icons for additional information.
vic
Added:
Some recent information for seal installation thanks to Lindenengineering Dennis.
Search: Repair replace remove install T1N OM647 OM612 vibration damper pulley sheave dampner
**********
Added:
There has been discussion as to whether the Harmonic Balancer HB should be changed on a schedule.
My opinion.
There are pitfalls and traps for DIY HB proper replacement.
If the operator(s) is aware and listening for odd noises from an engine then periodic replacement is not what I would suggest. If the ring loosens and makes noise, then removal of the failed ring allows full operation until repairs can be effected.
If the truck is operated by less than mechanically inclined, engine aware operators (aka: the clueless whose idea of maintenance is adding fuel) then periodic replacements may have substantial benefit.
***********
First.
Thanks goes to all contributors.
*****************
If you are on the road and discovered the loose ring, the ring can be removed to allow driving many hundreds of miles without issue. REMOVE THE RING. Pressing on with a loose ring has danger of further damage. Removing the ring gets you home.
Added:
Mover_boy claimed running 15,000 miles without the ring.
From Lindenengineering Dennis.
Just a cautionary tale .
I do have an engine on the floor, or what's left of it , with busted crank between 2 & 3 cylinder and wrecked block. The owner removed the insecure element and drove it for 2 months, before it all went Kahboom in a big way .
Maybe he was unlucky .
Dennis
My comment:
Removing the ring to get to proper service can avoid problems, many have done that successfully. It would appear that there is some risk so it is best to not push it longer than needed.
If you need to press on there may be a response to a loss of rubber bond on the harmonic balancer. The ring can be removed and the Sprinter driven with the ring missing.
At least it worked for Alexk243. I personally would keep my speeds/rpm down a bit. I have no data.
So the outside ring on the harmonic balancer is loose and spinning freely... Appears the bolt is tight... How much time do I have? I am 500 miles from home.
Sent from my HTC One using TapatalkHow high is up?
The proper answer is that it needs to be repaired. If it comes loose it can do a bunch of damage.
One possibility. If the ring will pass over the serpentine belt pulley. Remove the serpentine belt, remove the separated ring, and re-install the belt.
That should get rid of the balancer failing.
Were I to try that I would keep my speeds down to 55 mph to keep engine rpm's down. That said, there may be rpm ranges where more vibration is noticed than in others. If discovered I would avoid those ranges.
There must be many people who have run the T1N with a partially failed harmonic balancer which wasn't doing the job.
To be clear. I have never tried what I suggest above. I have no idea what the risks of trying it may be.
Good luck.
vicAs always, clicking the blue arrow icon within any quote box will take you to the original post/thread.So I have no reception and Wi-Fi but I guess I reached the same conclusion that you guys did. I drove 50 miles on it to an awesome diesel mechanic shop and they took the belt off and removed the ring. They also made sure the harmonic balancer was on there tight. After that (10 mins or so haha) I headed back and made the last 500 miles or so safely. Noticed a lot higher vibration as I approached 70 mph so stayed well below that.
You can see the ring removed on the floor of the shop by the driver door.
Thanks for the quick responses guys. Sorry I could only check it when I was at a place with Wi-Fi
Now my next question is what harmonic balancer is recommend for replacement? I am fine paying more so this does not happen again. Any thoughts?
**********************All you need is a proper tensioner tool or just a 17mm 12 point box end wrench to release the tensioner, remove the belt, and remove the loose ring. The tensioner has a cast in 12 point fitting.
If DIY isn't possible any decent small shop can do it. Refer them to the link that I provided above. That will allow you to get back home without any major expense. The repair can be scheduled once home.
vic
Here's an artistic rendering of the belt routing by a talented local artist.
]
Added:
For those who may be fearful of removing a failed HB ring and driving for a period of time until effecting proper repairs.
Mover_boy has run 15,000 miles without the ring.
For what it's worth: my weighted steel ring came completely off the rubber part on my 03 sprinter. So now I'm about 15K miles driving around without it. I can't say that people should do it too, but so far I can't tell much difference. I'm trying not to drive it at 3000 rpm thought. It starts a little funny on cold freezing mornings. If it ruins my engine I'll report it here.
***************************
The general information for repair starts here.
General comments.
There are at least a few failure modes. The rubber mounted balance ring can separate or become loose. The spokes of the Harmonic Balancer HB can crack/fail. The retaining bolt can fail. The bolt failing generally results in crank nose or key related issues.
Periodic inspection of the HB may reveal rubber separation or spoke cracks before critical failure. It is generally accepted that the double belt HB for rear air conditioning is more prone to failure.
A separated/detached ring on the Harmonic Balancer HB can be removed to allow using the Sprinter until the proper repair can be effected. Members have driven many hundreds of miles after removing a separated ring. I personally would keep the speeds/rpm down a bit. I have no idea of the consequences of operating without the ring, but would be willing to risk it as oppoesed to being stuck.
There have been some problems with aftermarket HB's. The general recommendation is to stay with OEM or at least OEM supplier brand.
The bolt and washer must be replaced. Do not re-use either of them. Many repairing/replacing the HB don't change the seal. At about 15 bucks for the part it is not a bad idea to do so while everything is apart.
Torque Spec = 240 FOOT/POUNDS (325N·m) plus 90 degrees assuming a grade M10.9 bolt.
Part Numbers
(Verify before ordering.)
PULLEY-CRANKSHAFT - Some possible selections.
Dodge 5103998AB
DODGE 05103972AB, 5103972AB
MERCEDES-BENZ 611 030 03 03, 611 030 17 03, 612 030 00 03, 647 030 01 03
FEBI BILSTEIN 32107
Bolt =
The 2004 bolt aka screw was originally listed as (Dodge) 05073696AA or MB N000000001884 (?)
Washer =
The 2004 washer under the head is (Dodge) 05080005AA or MB A6049900040
Seal = Dodge 05073675AB (?) or MB A0239978447
or National/ Timkin seal 710289
Key = The new key design part # 05170759AA (will sometimes fit a damaged nose end).
Note: Apparently the key design was changed for 2006 models. I don't know the exact crossover dates. It is probably listed somewhere by VIN number.
There are many good pictures in this thread.
T1N Harmonic Balancer Failure
http://www.sprinter-source.com/forum/showthread.php?t=28476&
A small collection of some of the available information in no particular order.
As always the original post/thread can be accessed by clicking the blue arrow icon within any quote box.
I'll start with this.
How high is up?... How much time do I have? I am 500 miles from home.
Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk
The proper answer is that it needs to be repaired. If it comes loose it can do a bunch of damage.
One possibility. The ring will pass over the serpentine belt pulley. Remove the serpentine belt, remove the separated ring, and re-install the belt.
That should get rid of the balancer failing.
Were I to try that I would keep my speeds down to 55 mph to keep engine rpm's down. That said, there may be rpm ranges where more vibration is noticed than in others. If discovered I would avoid those ranges.
There must be many people who have run the T1N with a partially failed harmonic balancer which wasn't doing the job.
To be clear. I have never tried what I suggest above. I have no idea what the risks of trying it may be.
Good luck.
vic
Guess it's not really emphasized in this thread but there are 2 maybe 3? harmonic balancer failure modes;
The garden variety rubber separating failure discussed here, typically gives some warning vibration and noise. Often the smooth outer weight exits with little ancillary damage?
The Broken spokes failure. Is this closely related to rear air, or maybe high electrical loads? Now the belt and sharp broken part can do some hurt as loose parts thrash about.
Key/keyway failure, the rarest but most damaging failure, typically requiring crankshaft replacement.
That sound about right? [Yes.]
I have seen more than a few harmonic balancer bolt failures in Sprinters over the years.
The bolt in your '04 is the 10.9 grade version bolt. In most of those failures the pulley bolt had been improperly torqued or reused during a repair or rear A/C crank pulley retrofit.
The correct torque procedure is a 2 stage operation using a NEW bolt. First the 240 ft/lbs, then an additional 90 degrees of rotation.
This brings the new bolt to it's yield point and theoretically results in an infinite fatigue life.
Ignoring the second stage during tightening could cause a short fatigue life, reusing a old bolt could result in a shorter life as well.
You should be able to grind a small slit in the remaining [broken] bolt shank face using a Dremel tool and back out the shank [stub] with a screw driver.
Doktor A
The key failure is caused by the damper coming loose on the crankshaft nose or stub!
Being a highly torsionally stressed area the key cannot be a substantial item otherwise it too would be a stress raiser causing potential crank failures!
Hence it is merely a locator device for the damper itself on the shaft !
The secret if you want to call it that is the very high torque applied to the retaining bolt and stepped cone washer which in effect is creating a crush style clamping condition.
Obviously then, the repair modis operandi is to recreate the factory crush condition by using a new bolt and washer plus of course a factory damper which has the correct shore hardness element.
Dennis
Two sources for getting a flywheel lock -
The official MB tool goes for around $135.00
KTC flywheel lock for $20.00 - http://www.amazon.com/Mercedes-Benz-Flywheel-Locking-Tool/dp/B0089PY4XM
Bruce
Aftermarket HB.On the very bottom of the bell housing there is an opening where you insert the [flywheel] lock. The lock itself engages with two bolts which are currently installed in the bell housing they are almost vertical. [The lock also engages the flywheel starter teeth which keeps the flywheel in position while the HB bolt is torqued in.] Back the bolts out and install the lock onto them. The hole itself is where the starter would go if you had a manual transmission sprinter so there should be a small opening where you can stick your fingers in and feel the teeth on the outside of the flexplate. if you look at the lock it has a series of small teeth which engage in the teeth on the outside of the flexplate. it's a bit of a brain stretch but you should be able to figure out how it aligns based on those.
The photos on this Amazon listing give you a rough idea of how the lock installs.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0089PY4XM/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1
I have bought & installed several of these. The aftermarket part is a complete failure! All of them failed (outer ring came off) in less than 6 months.
Well! lesson learned the hard way, my 2006 with 240,000 just let go of it's 2nd harmonic balancer, the 1st was at 235,000 and unbeknownst to me at the time I went to my local CARQUEST auto parts and ordered the replacement, now I know about the made in China junk, it lasted less than 6000 miles before coming apart while stopping at the mailbox at the bottom of our driveway after doing around 100 miles plus yesterday, talk about good timing! I made it home. I'm not happy about having to take it apart again but thank goodness the guys at Europartssd.com here in SD have all the needed parts in stock! I my opinion, in order to correctly torque the bolt you can't do it without removing the radiator, intercooler, etc... to gain easy access to the front of the balancer and bolt, neither the 3/4" drive monster torque wrench or breaker bar will fit between the radiator shroud and front of the pulley so it all comes apart...again.
My 2nd one came apart after only 5000 or so miles, Dorman made in China junk. I didn't know any better at the time, but don't get anything but the factory replacement. The original one lasted 230,000 plus and made the funny noise and took a while to figure it out, never separated, the replacement Dorman one made noise for about 30 seconds before coming apart and taking out the serpentine belt! Europartssd.com had all the factory parts in stock here in town! I know what I'm doing today! again!
So the Doorman balancer I bought and installed in October self destructed yesterday. The balance ring went flying out the bottom of the engine bay taking the belt with it while I was driving to work. Managed to drive two blocks home and park it, without further issue.
Where would you suggest getting an OEM Balancer. I don't want to have to do this again next year.
Access to change out the parts.Go to http://europarts-sd.com will have everything you need.
Best prices, excellent service, OEM parts. They specialize in Sprinters.
They ship Fedex so you'll have your parts in the next day or two.
You don't need to remove the rad'!
In fact you don't even need to remove the fan and cowl either if its the rack or over a pit!
But if you are having "bash" for the first time, then remove the fan & cowl and there is plenty of room to change it out.
Put a piece of carton or packing box cut off over the inner radiator matrix to protect the fins.
Professional mechanic time is 1.5 hours
See how you get on and all the best !
Dennis
If you decide to swing it [the radiator] out there is an outline here.
http://www.sprinter-source.com/forum/showthread.php?p=127200#post127200
vic
Plus you will need a torque wrench with excess of 240 lbf ft capacity plus a long knuckle bar!
To angle tighten it. AND a 27 mm [1 1/16"] deep socket!
...
Dennis
That's enough from me for now. Do a search or click on the blue arrow icons for additional information.
vic
Added:
Some recent information for seal installation thanks to Lindenengineering Dennis.
First oil seals have multiple applications , hence that seal will fit other vehicles.
The protector sleeve presence is commonplace on that type of wiper edge seal.
It forms two functions.
a) it keeps the seal lip round and not deform in storage.
b) Should the seal be installed on shaft or boss where the shaft has a step on it, the protector expands the lip enough not to get torn/ruptures by pushing it over a sharp machine edge.
This is a common skilled mechanic activity to ensuring you don't tear the seal during installation.
Sometimes we place ring of masking or duct tape on the sharp edge to protect the a seal lip then peel it off after seal placement when there is no expander sleeve supplied with the seal . Its basically what the good mechanics have been doing for decades.
In the case of this crank pulley there is no risk because the seal simply fits into the timing case and the smooth pulley stub will expand the lip without injury.
If there is a concern its to ensure the seal is dead square and properly place in the timing case
More techniques required !
Dennis
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