Slow / No Acceleration Engine Temp less than 150 F

gltrimble

2017 170 4x4
You mention an auxiliary heater as well as a booster heater - I thought these were one and the same?

As I recall MB offered two heater options. I ordered the H12 Auxiliary heater. The other less costly option was the booster heater. You also had the option of ordering both for really cold weather.

My research at the time indicated that only the H12 auxiliary heater could run without the key. I even ordered the remote control so I can turn the heater on from the house. I thought the booster heater by itself only operates when the motor is running.



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pdxkid

currently vanless :-(
Wow. You guys are far more patient than I'd be. The symptoms described, and the lack of any useful help from MB is yet another reason that I simply can't consider another Sprinter, no matter how much I like them. What on earth is going on?! How is it that man can build this vehicle but can't troubleshoot it when something goes wrong? How is it that you're treated suspect when bringing up this terrible and potentially dangerous condition to MB?! Ugh.
 

Wrinkledpants

2017 144WB 4x4
Wow. You guys are far more patient than I'd be. The symptoms described, and the lack of any useful help from MB is yet another reason that I simply can't consider another Sprinter, no matter how much I like them. What on earth is going on?! How is it that man can build this vehicle but can't troubleshoot it when something goes wrong? How is it that you're treated suspect when bringing up this terrible and potentially dangerous condition to MB?! Ugh.
Having an issue that isn't immediately repeatable by a dealer is not something unique to MB. No matter what brand of vehicle you buy, you're going to have issues that are tough to troubleshoot.
 

grinnelljd

Active member
I had something that seems to match these symptoms happen to me in my 2018 Sprinter 4x4 a few weeks ago. My van is relatively new with just a bit over 4000 miles; it has the H12 auxiliary heater option.

It was a cold morning, about 15-20F, so I started the auxiliary heater and let it run for about 10 minutes before I went out and started the van and headed out. I left my complex and drove at about 30 mph for about 1 mile until I reached an intersection with a traffic light.

I was first in line to make a left-hand turn. The intersection is on a small upward grade and while I was waiting I noticed that my temp hadn't even reached the first tick of the coolant thermometer display (<137F).

When the light changed I slowly crept forward into the intersection while waiting for a few oncoming cars to clear and then I pushed firmly on the accelerator pedal...nothing. I pushed down further...still nothing. I thought that the engine had stalled, but I didn't see any indication on the dash. In desperation, I just pushed the pedal down even further and then slowly the van began to move. Not fast, but it did move and little by little it began to pick up speed.

Scared me a bit, thinking I was going to be stranded halfway through the intersection. I remembered seeing something about slow acceleration in Sprinters and found this thread. It hasn't happened again, but I've been careful not to get into the same set of circumstances. On cold days I let the auxiliary heater work longer before starting off.
 

pdxkid

currently vanless :-(
It hasn't happened again, but I've been careful not to get into the same set of circumstances. On cold days I let the auxiliary heater work longer before starting off.
Again, you guys are far more patient and willing to just let MB be MB than I could ever be again. I realize that ALL vehicles have quirks and bugs to be worked out. What is going on with this quirk? Seems incredibly inconvenient and potentially dangerous, not to mention ridiculous. Why should the driver take steps "not to get into the same set of circumstances"? Circumstances like driving your vehicle and expecting it to work.

Crazy money for this vehicle that seems to have crazy problems (clunk, difficult to shift into 4wd, all of the DEF and DPF bs)
 

4wheeldog

2018 144" Tall Revel
Again, you guys are far more patient and willing to just let MB be MB than I could ever be again. I realize that ALL vehicles have quirks and bugs to be worked out. What is going on with this quirk? Seems incredibly inconvenient and potentially dangerous, not to mention ridiculous. Why should the driver take steps "not to get into the same set of circumstances"? Circumstances like driving your vehicle and expecting it to work.

Crazy money for this vehicle that seems to have crazy problems (clunk, difficult to shift into 4wd, all of the DEF and DPF bs)
My suggestion is for you not to buy one.
Keep in mind that these problems are not universal.....Only those that experience the problem complain about it.
Personally, so far this is only a very occasion quirk, in my case. I have not experienced it except on the very first application of throttle after a very cold start. So your rejection of the entire vehicle, which really has no direct competitor, is unwarranted.
 

MTD

Member
I've had the same behavior. 2016 4x4. I notice it most above 6K feet elevation, so I have assumed it was turbo lag. Generally not a problem, but it borders on ridiculous sometimes--case in point--I was parked at 10,200' last october, temp was not cold (maybe 50F), and I went to turn left up a small incline, would not normally have needed 4x4 let alone low range, and hit the gas pedal (yeah I know it's a diesel), and got no increase in RPMs. Van felt like it was detached from the accelerator pedal sensor--no change in any apparent engine response. Put it into neutral and then 4x4/low, and then was able to get up with no problem.

Earlier this month did a 10 day trip to the Andes/Peru--and spent considerable time in newer sprinters (2015 and newer), and they absolutely rocked at high altitudes. I am talking up to 14,500' with no problems (at least from a passenger's point of view). We did sketch dirt roads up to 13.2k with no problems. They were all 2wd and we did some stuff that I would have been more comfortable activating 4wd on.

There were some differences though: 1)they were all manual tranny; 2) probably had no DPF/SCR either (I wanted to check under the hood/under the van but restrained myself). But on #1, the benefit of that of course, is that from the start you can rev to 1500rpm or so and then ease in the clutch, which puts the engine/turbo into more of its sweet torque spot. I suspect the issue we are all seeing is the product of automatic trans (5spd), and probably a somewhat delayed throttle response/turbo lag for emissions controls.
 

grinnelljd

Active member
Again, you guys are far more patient and willing to just let MB be MB than I could ever be again. I realize that ALL vehicles have quirks and bugs to be worked out. What is going on with this quirk? Seems incredibly inconvenient and potentially dangerous, not to mention ridiculous. Why should the driver take steps "not to get into the same set of circumstances"? Circumstances like driving your vehicle and expecting it to work.

Crazy money for this vehicle that seems to have crazy problems (clunk, difficult to shift into 4wd, all of the DEF and DPF bs)
Well, I am not going to condemn an entire vehicle line simply because of one isolated odd occurrence in my particular vehicle.

After it occurred I did some reading and saw that others had reported something similar to what I had experienced, but by all accounts, it is intermittent, meaning that it is going to be difficult to isolate the root cause.

It seems that many of the events occurred when the coolant temp was not at its normal operating temperature, which means that the oil temperature is also not at its normal operating temperature. I see that some have speculated that this could cause slow turbo spooling and reduced acceleration. Maybe there is something to that, but I honestly only have the one personal data point to work with.

I'll check in periodically to see what others are reporting, but I for one am not terribly concerned at this point. As for your other complaints (clunk, difficult to shift into 4wd, all of the DEF and DPF bs) I can't speak to those because I haven't had any such issues.
 

Wrinkledpants

2017 144WB 4x4
No clunks or other BS here. So far, this one occurrence has been my only odd behavior. If I experience it again, I'll start pushing the normal channels, to include the NTSB. My previous cars were a Cayenne Turbo, A4 1.8 Turbo, and a twin turbo S4. The S4 I half-tuned myself through the ECU (hard to understand the tables in German). I feel like I'm fairly familiar with turbo lag and elevation. What I experienced in that intersection was definitely not turbo lag. It felt like the ECU was not registering my throttle inputs.
 

Davidboco

New member
No clunks or other BS here. So far, this one occurrence has been my only odd behavior. If I experience it again, I'll start pushing the normal channels, to include the NTSB. My previous cars were a Cayenne Turbo, A4 1.8 Turbo, and a twin turbo S4. The S4 I half-tuned myself through the ECU (hard to understand the tables in German). I feel like I'm fairly familiar with turbo lag and elevation. What I experienced in that intersection was definitely not turbo lag. It felt like the ECU was not registering my throttle inputs.
You may want to take it to Dennis-mine hasn’t repeated the problem once he addressed it- see below:

To elaborate.
The issue is a mismatch of sensor readings in live data especially upon cold start up.
We found it by using Xentry factory scan tool and lap top, plus overnight cold soak condition sitting in our yard .
So far 16 units fixed--all were under warranty but "they" couldn't Quote:- Repeat the issue
AND YES two specimens had been to a particular MB dealer in the Denver Metro area with a clean bill of health pass .

As useful as tits on a boar comes to mind!
Problem affects just 2016 4x4 (V6) derivatives
Dennis
 

Farfrumwork

Active member
Thanks.

Can you tell us what Dennis did to solve the issue?

And what kind of $$ did it run you? (These issues should be covered under warranty for most of those posting here, but if they can 'repeat the issue' then they likely are not fixing under warranty)


I've seen this a few times as well. And I drive other turbo'd cars so I know its not a spooling issue.
Once it occurred in Crested Butte leaving our camp in the AM (chilly, but >freezing in the summer). I had to put it in 4-lo to get her to move. In 4-lo there was no issue.


You may want to take it to Dennis-mine hasn’t repeated the problem once he addressed it- see below:

To elaborate.
The issue is a mismatch of sensor readings in live data especially upon cold start up.
We found it by using Xentry factory scan tool and lap top, plus overnight cold soak condition sitting in our yard .
So far 16 units fixed--all were under warranty but "they" couldn't Quote:- Repeat the issue
AND YES two specimens had been to a particular MB dealer in the Denver Metro area with a clean bill of health pass .

As useful as tits on a boar comes to mind!
Problem affects just 2016 4x4 (V6) derivatives
Dennis
 

MTD

Member
You may want to take it to Dennis-mine hasn’t repeated the problem once he addressed it- see below:

To elaborate.
The issue is a mismatch of sensor readings in live data especially upon cold start up.
We found it by using Xentry factory scan tool and lap top, plus overnight cold soak condition sitting in our yard .
So far 16 units fixed--all were under warranty but "they" couldn't Quote:- Repeat the issue
AND YES two specimens had been to a particular MB dealer in the Denver Metro area with a clean bill of health pass .

As useful as tits on a boar comes to mind!
Problem affects just 2016 4x4 (V6) derivatives
Dennis
This is really interesting. Would love to take it to Dennis, but I'm a 15 hour drive away. Is there anyway you, or he, might give me a little more detail to either take to a local dealer or independent shop in SF Bay Area? I'm worried that trying to reproduce this at sea level will be impossible.
 

Wecomatt

SixWalls Sprinter
We've experienced the same issue with our '17 144 4x4. I actually stalled (had to re-start in the middle of Hwy 6) coming out of the lower lot at A-Basin after a day of skiing. I did bring up the "lag" problem with a local Mercedes dealer (prior to the event noted above) and was told, as many of you have been, that it was normal for the Sprinter to be slow off the line. Still don't understand the mechanics of what's going on as no other vehicle I've driven responds this way.

Since then I have noticed that temperature does seem to have an adverse effect on the issue. Last weekend, during a visit to Winter Park I let the van idle till the coolant temp reached 150ish before driving. This seemed to help and felt closer to the normal lag I'm used to experiencing when accelerating from a stop.

Can anyone elaborate on what Dennis is fixing to over come this issue? Luckily I'm close by.
 

Island Jim

Active member
I realize this is a 4x4 thread but I just want to say it happens with 2x4 vans also. Twice in 4 years my 2014 v6 has not been able to pull out of my driveway up a very small incline when starting in the morning. Both times temps were in the mid 30's elevation 200 ft. I got no throttle response until the engine warmed up , maybe two or three minutes of idle, then normal operation. It seemed like a transmission problem but it is so random I have no idea!
 

lindenengineering

Well-known member
OK
The general consensus from multiple repairs AND recognized by our local MB dealer here in Littleton . (who we work closely together with and their tech Dustin)

The EBP Exhaust Back Pressure Sensor, DPS the Differential Pressure Sensor , and the IPS Intake Pressure Sensor are running mismatched.

If your van is still under warranty button hole you local dealer and they can source the repair info from MB or they can call Rory Service Advisor (Sprinter) for details @ MB Dealer Littleton Colorado.
Happy Sprintering
Dennis ,
 

Farfrumwork

Active member
Excellent - thanks so much Dennis!

MB Littleton is where I bought my van (though not as local as the Westminster dealer). I'll call them for a service (mines a 2017, bought in 2018, at 7800mi).
 

Ski Trip

Member
add me to the list. it happened 3 times at sea level. each time it was freezing temps, and I did not let the van warm up as long as ususal (1-2 minutes instead of 5+ in cold weather). thanks to all that contributed to this thread.
 

ksrltd

New member
Update:

I was able to get some cooperation from MB dealer who involved MB America with a regional tech. I was present to recreate the power lag. After a cold night we placed very small wheel chocks in front of both wheels to simulate resistance. The van nearly died then held engine RPM's slowly developing to more than 1200 and then the van crawled over the resistance of wheel chocks. These chocks were smaller than a standard square curb and gutter. Total time needed 47 seconds.

We reproduced the test situation with another like sprinter. Total time to overcome the resistance, 3 seconds.

MB has had the van just over a month now. They've replaced tons of mechanical parts short of an engine. A few sensors also. MB America regional tech in collaboration with MB Germany all shrugged their shoulders with an offer to buy back. Then the last-ditch effort to replace injectors and an improvement is discovered. Now the delay is reported to me at 10 seconds. The Tech has "deemed" this " acceptable". I am doubtful this is acceptable to sit in an intersection or pull into traffic at highway speeds with a ten-second acceleration delay.

Next week I will evaluate the "repair".

Sharing this as Dennis is correct to be persistent and on likely causes. I've complained for two years about no acceleration and been ramrodded no problem exists. It was a milestone a month ago to have the MB America tech acknowledge the van was not correct. MB Colorado dealer is def aware of the issue and was consulted by the MB America Tech. I seem to be going backwards again with MB, but anyone having dangerous acceleration problems greater than 5 seconds should pursue corrections. It may be as simple of Dennis's past experiences or something altogether different.

Steph
 
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