Trying to find the courage to do a 170WB build

H

hmbltn

Guest
At one point today, the thought of driving my unfinished van off a cliff crossed my mind as I laid on the bare metal floor staring up at the Thinsulate-exposed ceiling.

Needless to say, today was not a fun van conversion day. Very discouraged. Hopefully tomorrow brings a better attitude, and forward progress.
 
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ranchworld

'06 158 2500 Passenger
At one point today, the thought of driving my unfinished van off a cliff crossed my mind as I laid on the bare metal floor staring up at the Thinsulate-exposed ceiling.

Needless to say, today was not a fun van conversion day. Very discouraged. Hopefully tomorrow brings a better attitude, and forward progress.
I had the same feeling today making cabinets. I try and look at it like remodeling my house, a certain number of hours are required to complete the job, I just need to keep putting in those hours. Most of it I enjoy. Some hours suck. Helps me to take a break, get out of the space and think about something different for a few minutes. My mantra is "It'll be great when it's done..."
 

HarryN

Well-known member
The wood cabinets in vans are beautiful, but I kind of prefer either soft side bags (especially at head banging level) as well as those clear plastic boxes with lids from target. It kind of drives my wife nuts, but I just hand a box to everyone and tell them "you can take what fits in here". Easy to stack, easy to secure.

One approach is to think about how your family packs for vacations and trips. Are you using gym bags, suite cases, or backpacks to pack your existing vehicle?

Sometimes the easiest way to pack / unpack is to use the same packing method that is already in common use and find ways to accommodate these items, vs introducing new concepts of storage into the vehicle.

In this local climate there is little downside to storing virtually all food related items in a refrigerator or freezer so sometimes people will just skip food cabinets and use that approach.
 

Graphite Dave

Dave Orton
At one point today, the thought of driving my unfinished van off a cliff crossed my mind as I laid on the bare metal floor staring up at the Thinsulate-exposed ceiling.

Needless to say, today was not a fun van conversion day. Very discouraged. Hopefully tomorrow brings a better attitude, and forward progress.
You will have those days.

Most of us underestimate the time required to do a conversion. Just keep working at it and use the van as you do. I am about to complete a second conversion. Thought I would be able to do it in half the time due to what I learned on the first. Wrong again. If anything it is more difficult because you now how much more time will be required to complete it.
 

ultradfw

New member
I personally prefer backpacking into the back country. But my wife has zero interest in doing that. My boys are too small to venture far from the trailhead with only one adult in the party.

I envision using the camper to get us out to the State and National Parks with the opportunity to get away from the large crowded campgrounds as much as possible. As well as a place to sleep when passing through urban areas. Rather than spend hundreds on hotels.

The mobile office idea is not something I HAVE to do but would really like the ability to do so whenever I want.

My wife is not even fully onboard with getting a van but I’m lobbying pretty hard for it.

I’m considering the RUV kit as well. Or a custom combination of options they offer. Not sure I want the soft storage or the MOAB bed.
How about van + rooftop tent? Easier than dealing with a trailer. Frees up space in van for other stuff too. Installs on standard Thule etc aftermarket roof rack.

Zero setup hassle if you get the right one. James Baroud Horizon Vision has gas-strut-assisted opening, for example. Literally ready for use in a minute or two. Super-fast to stow when it's time to go.

And no big deal if you want to do a day trip in middle of your camping trip. Tent stows in less than 5 minutes.

If you go with a hardshell RTT (ex: Autohome), you can get models that let you put a bike /gear rack on top of the tent's clamshell.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
 
How about van + rooftop tent? Easier than dealing with a trailer. Frees up space in van for other stuff too. Installs on standard Thule etc aftermarket roof rack.

Zero setup hassle if you get the right one. James Baroud Horizon Vision has gas-strut-assisted opening, for example. Literally ready for use in a minute or two. Super-fast to stow when it's time to go.

And no big deal if you want to do a day trip in middle of your camping trip. Tent stows in less than 5 minutes.

If you go with a hardshell RTT (ex: Autohome), you can get models that let you put a bike /gear rack on top of the tent's clamshell.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


I for sure considered one of those rack top tents. That would definitely interfere with my solar needs though.
 

ThomD

Member
If your wife is not fully on board, that could be a problem. Or not.

You only need 3 things to convert a van - skill, money and time.
Skill is easy. Youtube and forums have answers to every question under the sun. Just don't try to put a hot tub in your van. Everything else has been done and documented.

Money - either you have it or you don't. If your budget allows, buy what you can and build what you must. For example, I'm putting in a chest of drawer - 10 drawers. (I like drawers and do not like cabinets.) I could have built the drawers. I have the tools and skill and space. Instead, I let Barker Doors make me maple, dove tailed, finished drawers. They showed up on Friday and are beautiful. What would have taken me a month in the shop (or two!), took 15 minutes ordering on their web site.

Time - You have small kids. Can you spend 8 hours every Saturday and Sunday working on the van? Progress will be glacial if you can't. I'm doing most everything by myself, but sometimes you need two people. My wife helps out when asked, but doesn't hang around the garage waiting for something to do. If you can't get the occasional 3rd and 4th hand from your wife, things could be tough.

OTOH, if all those things sound manageable, then jump on in. The water's fine.

I've been working on the electrical cabinet for a couple of weeks and finally got to the stage of wiring most of it up. I sat down and made a list of cables that I had to make on Sunday. Something like a dozen cables just for the solar interface and DC panel. After staring at the box, thinking about wiring layout for way too long, I decided to just make some darn cables and see what fit. So, this first draft (everything is a prototype) isn't ideal. I will change a couple of things, but it is in.

There will be days (weekends) where you think, "What did I get myself into?"

By Sunday night I'm usually ready to not think about the van for a while. By Tuesday I'm happily thinking about how I'll spend next weekend working on it.
 
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HarryN

Well-known member
The decision that makes the wiring complicated vs relatively simple is the placement of the switches and exactly how convenient plugs need to be.

If your build concept requires that the majority of switches are all in one panel, then every device has a wire pair that goes from the panel out to each device. It looks nice when finished, but in the meantime - tons of wire runs back and forth.

If instead you are willing to have local switching - near the device that actually uses the power, then it can rather dramatically simplify wiring.

If the power system capacity is just barely sufficient for the van to operate, then a lot of effort has to go into rationing and battery monitoring.

Once the electrical system capacity is sufficient / somewhat over size, then micro management, rationing and turning off USB plugs, etc when not in use is no longer an issue.

In a home, we are ecological / not wasteful of electricity, but we don't have to have every plug and light in the house on a single switch panel because the "system" is of sufficient capacity. It is the same for van conversions.

In most vans, the refrigerator is the big power user, followed by the diesel heater. Once the decision is made to have 8 hours of air conditioning from the battery pack:
- The rest of the loads become essentially negligible
- Solar will assist, but the main re-charge power will either come from substantial driving, a generator, or the grid
- The battery pack sizing will usually end up around 8 - 10 kw-hrs of usable capacity
 

ultradfw

New member
I for sure considered one of those rack top tents. That would definitely interfere with my solar needs though.
If you're interested, there are some useful threads on ExpeditionPortal.com about using solar in conjunction with RTT.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
 

Graphite Dave

Dave Orton
TomD:

Extremely well summarized. I am mostly retired with plenty of time and have saved/invested my money so money is not an issue. I am fortunate enough to have a barn for a work space with a reasonable amount of tools. Not as skillful as many here but enough to get the job done. I do have a background of 55 years of engineering with enough 2D CAD ability that has helped.

Even with the time money and skills a conversion is not easy for some. One thing you left out is the loss of sleep due to waking up thinking about how to solve a design issue.

I do not know how I could have completed a conversion in my earlier days with kids. It certainly would not have been so complete and would have been much simpler. Just a simple place to sleep/ride/eat. That being said I have strong regrets not building a conversion when I was younger. I keep looking at the calendar wondering if the conversion will be done before I am done.
 
If your wife is not fully on board, that could be a problem. Or not.

You only need 3 things to convert a van - skill, money and time.
Skill is easy. Youtube and forums have answers to every question under the sun. Just don't try to put a hot tub in your van. Everything else has been done and documented.

Money - either you have it or you don't. If your budget allows, buy what you can and build what you must. For example, I'm putting in a chest of drawer - 10 drawers. (I like drawers and do not like cabinets.) I could have built the drawers. I have the tools and skill and space. Instead, I let Barker Doors make me maple, dove tailed, finished drawers. They showed up on Friday and are beautiful. What would have taken me a month in the shop (or two!), took 15 minutes ordering on their web site.

Time - You have small kids. Can you spend 8 hours every Saturday and Sunday working on the van? Progress will be glacial if you can't. I'm doing most everything by myself, but sometimes you need two people. My wife helps out when asked, but doesn't hang around the garage waiting for something to do. If you can't get the occasional 3rd and 4th hand from your wife, things could be tough.

OTOH, if all those things sound manageable, then jump on in. The water's fine.

I've been working on the electrical cabinet for a couple of weeks and finally got to the stage of wiring most of it up. I sat down and made a list of cables that I had to make on Sunday. Something like a dozen cables just for the solar interface and DC panel. After staring at the box, thinking about wiring layout for way too long, I decided to just make some darn cables and see what fit. So, this first draft (everything is a prototype) isn't ideal. I will change a couple of things, but it is in.

There will be days (weekends) where you think, "What did I get myself into?"

By Sunday night I'm usually ready to not think about the van for a while. By Tuesday I'm happily thinking about how I'll spend next weekend working on it.
The one thing I do have is Time. My work as a consultant is very flexible. Some days I have hours of work that requires constant effort. Some days I just have to check in and then I make my own hours. The weekends would probably yield less time to work on a conversion but not zero time.

I think the main detractor for my wife is the money. We can afford it if we really want to. She also has some stigma about having such a huge vehicle. Even though it's not much bigger than our current crew cab pickup.

I'd like to take my time and build it up slowly. Adding new features so I don't lose the functionality of the whole van for very long periods at a time. I have a lot of experience working on home construction type projects but nothing as intricate as a van conversion. I think all the minute details and planning will be harder for me than perhaps it is for others.

The more I think about my life with a fully converted van the more I think it's exactly what is needed.
 

sprint2freedom

2008 NCV3 170ext
Start looking for van immediately. This can take a while, and once you decide to you're ready to do this, waiting for the right van can be agonizing. :bash:

Study prior art. Use your ample free time to loiter here until you have a good idea of the possibililties, tradeoffs, standard solutions, and a solid understanding of what you do and don't want in your conversion. The list of "don't wants" is important.. you can't have it all.

Get the wife on board! This is a huge, exciting, life-changing project. Make sure you emphasize the last two parts over the first.. :shhh: :thumbup:

Choose and buy supplies for one sub-project at a time. Don't order solar panels, batteries, toilet, furnace, cabinets, etc on day one. Build your van one "layer" at a time, keeping in mind how your later plans will be affected by your choices today. What you want will very likely change during the build as you learn more, so try to avoid committing yourself today to a specific choice later on.

Take lots of pictures during the build process. They'll be useful later on when you need to drill a hole and avoid drilling through stuff underneath. :professor:
 
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Graphite Dave

Dave Orton
Bruce. Saw that you are in the SF Bay Area.

Highly recommend that you visit. Having now done two conversions I have learned a few things that I am sure would be useful to you. You may see things and hear that you definitely do not want to do but then you will see and hear things that will help fill in the blanks.

I would also try to find someone else in the area to visit for the same reasons.
 
Bruce. Saw that you are in the SF Bay Area.

Highly recommend that you visit. Having now done two conversions I have learned a few things that I am sure would be useful to you. You may see things and hear that you definitely do not want to do but then you will see and hear things that will help fill in the blanks.

I would also try to find someone else in the area to visit for the same reasons.
Dave,

Thank you for this kind offer. I will ABSOLUTELY take you up on this. Hopefully soon. Sonoma County is my old stomping ground.
 

Graphite Dave

Dave Orton
Dave,

Thank you for this kind offer. I will ABSOLUTELY take you up on this. Hopefully soon. Sonoma County is my old stomping ground.
Try to find someone else in the Bay Area to visit with as well. The more you see of different builds the clearer it will be with what you want. I also highly recommend going to the Sprinterfest West in Tualatin Oregon this year. When I was starting the first conversion, Sprinterfest was invaluable.
 
One way to dramatically reduce energy requirement for cooling is to limit heat transfer through the roof. A common way is via insulation, painting roof with white or IR reflecting paint but another one is via a tropical roof. Tropical roof is a double roof with an air gap allowing free air flow in between. These roofs are still used in tropical climates. See the pictures.

A similar effect can be accomplished by fully populating a roof with solar panels. Ideally slightly larger than a roof to act as mini awnings.

https://www.google.com/search?safe=......0...1c.1.64.psy-ab..0.0.0....0.5xBdyHS2XG8
Since I haven't gotten to this part of my build, this is going to be partly speculation, but based on spending many years living in Texas and Florida I have hope that it will help reduce the heat gain.

My reasoning is:
Paint color on the roof, coatings and such don't matter all that much. (After looking at real studies.)
You can't really do a good job in a van with a radiant barrier. There is just too much metal connecting it all and it is a great conductor.
Thinsulate is easy and works great for winter heat. I did that. It will also help keep it cool if using air conditioning by reducing heat loss.
GD has the best solution to get rid of the heat from radiant heating - vent the roof and vent the floor and with minimal to no power use you can get the inside of the van close to the same temp as the outside shaded temp.

I plan to have 4 100 watt solar panels on the roof of my 170" which will cover a good amount of the roof area. I will also have the GD floor vent and max fans. Rear and CRL windows are dark tinted. I am thinking about 3M Crystalline Film on the windshield https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/company...ystalline-Series/?N=5002385+3292716668&rt=rud and wondering if anyone has tried it.

The only practical way to reduce radiant heat gain is to put the van in the shade.
In Texas I have seen many RVs permanently parked under large "carports" or tropical roofs that provide shade above them. High end class A motorhomes have awnings above windows, as do many of the homes in FL.
Solar panels above the roof can partially block the sun from the roof and help, but 4 panels don't even cover half the roof and the side of the van has more surface area than the roof (although off angle).

I am going to try and get the same effect with solar screen, like people use on patios and decks. They often have it roll down in the afternoon like a wall. I don't have a roof rack, but I am going to put a couple short posts in the track and then just attach one side of the screen to them and stretch it to the ground a few feet away from the van and stake it. When parked with the van sideways to the sun this should give me shade with airflow on that side. Plus the screen is see through to an extent. This shouldn't be hard to do from the ground. I am hoping that screen won't catch the wind like an awning does and that I can set it and forget it when parked. Or maybe not stake it, but just set some rocks on it so that if the wind does blow it loose there is nothing hard attached to it to do any damage.

I haven't decide about trying to screen the rest of the roof when parked. It may be a case of the last 20% of the job is 80% more work. If I do, then I will probably just take a piece of the same screen the size of the roof and put it on the post up off the roof at the same height as the solar panels. cut and edge around the solar panels and vents. If I do this I will also use some tent poles to extend it out from the roof track in front over the windshield like an awning. Making it isn't hard, but putting it up there and taking it down on a 4x4 without carrying a step ladder is the part I haven't figured out.

Screen isn't as effective as solid awning, but from my experience parking under trees vs. in the open it might make a huge difference. I am also looking for a solution that isn't expensive and lets me leave the van to go hiking and not worry about the wind picking up. I would welcome comments. (Sorry if I am hijacking your thread)
 

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