Trying to find the courage to do a 170WB build

I’ve been lurking for months reading everything I can about the conversion process. I haven’t even bought a van yet but I REALLY want to get one soon and start a build. It’s just very intimidating and I can’t bring myself to pull the trigger. Looking for encouragement or discouragement if I’m fooling myself in thinking I can even accomplish a halfway decent build.

My goals.

- Starting with a 170 Crew. I need to seat 5 and sleep 5. 2 adults and 3 kids age 9, 7 and 7. Kids are pretty small so I am thinking one modified foam bed on the bench seat and two bunks somewhere. I hammock camp and make my own hammocks so I’m visualizing a kids sleeping solution that might be like a fixed bridge hammock(s). Or maybe it just inflatables on the floor.

- Like to use as mobile office as much as possible when not traveling. This requires quality AC unit, large battery bank, ample solar, and more. In Northern California it can get pretty hot. I don’t have to use it every day if it’s too hot so I don’t need a ‘holy grai’ Level system.

- Storage for bikes under the main bed. I haven’t decided on using Flarespace or not to get more room but either way I need to park two adult bikes and 3 small bikes INSIDE the van.

- Galley, probably use a portable stove so I can cook outside whenever possible. Need a good size fridge to for 5 people.

- Latrine/shower, I’d love to have a wet shower and toilet set up but that seems very optimistic. Although plumbing is one of the skills I’m most good at. I’d settle for a Porta-Potty and or an outdoor shower.

Been following the 80/20 thread and would probably go that route for cabinets, etc.

Found a few local people who can help me with the electrical set up as that part seems to be the most intimidating. Especially if I go with LiFePO4 batteries.

I don’t really mind if it takes a long time to get dialed in as long as I can use the van in whatever degree possible most of the time. Other than my motorcycle it will likely be my daily driver too.

Thanks,
Bruce
SF Bay Area
 

markxengineering

Active member
A few notes:
- your impression is correct, it's a huge project to DIY a conversion (I'm about halfway through with mine) and you have an ambitious plan. There are so many things that would go 10x quicker the second time, but you'll only do them once..
- it will be difficult to find places to hang hammocks from, at least to support adult's weight. I'm 200 pounds and had to add folding legs to my murphy bed because I was deflecting the steel beams and roof supports I welded them to when bed was hanging only from the ceiling. I found that only the larger of the roof supports is very rigid in my 140", the other smaller ones (and whole roof) flex very easily.
-AC is pretty unrealistic without at least intermittently running an engine of some kind. At least, I've never seen a good solution. This means extremely inefficient use of diesel van engine (not recommended, it's stupid and bad for it), or a generator.

I can't imagine 5 people living out of one van : ), but others have done it, so go for it but plan on it taking much, much longer than you think !!
-
 

HarryN

Well-known member
It is a big project - no doubt about it.

Another possible option is to split some of the features between the van and a trailer rather than it all having to be one unit.

As an example, take a look at open floor plan toy hauler trailers - doesn't have to be a huge one, just large enough to hold the basics. Those can be had for fairly reasonable prices and include the plumbing, beds, etc sufficient to start using it right away for vacations.

If the van is setup for 5 or 6 passenger seats (kids like to bring along friends) and the items for your mobile office, it can be a much simpler build plan.

As you use the van, some things will become more obvious, such as if there really is room (or a need) to sleep 5 inside vs some in a tent.

There is more to building up a van than just the project - it is a family and perhaps even neighbourhood event. Your kids will remember helping Dad build the van forever - even if it takes years and all they ever do is hold the wrench while you do the actual work. People to tend to collect around big projects like this and it turns into a social situation, not just a chore.
 
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It is a big project - no doubt about it.
x2

I am an extremely capable fabricator. I've had a hobby of building high-end custom furniture and have an electrical/mechanical/materials engineering background (Ph.D.) as well as access to a proper machine shop. My build is coming along but everything is taking 2-3x longer than I expected. I shudder to think all the problems/ compromises a novice DIYer would have on such an endeavor.

I also second the statement about the second time being 10x easier, but there is no second time. Before I started my build I was entertaining the idea of putting my van on the market the day I finished to see if I could sell it for $20-30k above my cost of the van and materials. I still think that is a reasonable price for the buyer, but after being only half way through my build and appreciating all the effort it is taking, I'd need someone to offer me $1M for me to part with it!
 

Graphite Dave

Dave Orton
Depending on how complete the conversion is, the time required is substantial and will be four times longer than you think. Do you have the tools, time and skill set to do the job?

What you will gain is learning skills you did not have. None of the process is difficult and you will learn from the project. This forum is very useful for information and has willing people to help answer questions.

Does sound like a tent in addition to the van will be needed as the kids get older. It even gets crowded with two people in a van.

I built a Sprinter conversion and now am about to complete a Transit conversion. Some ideas about my opinions on a conversion that might be useful are posted in a web site:

http://www.ortontransit.info/

Everyone's needs are not the same so what I have done may not fit your requirements.

If interested I can spend time with you to answer some of your questions and show you a completed conversion using 80/20. PM if you want to visit. We live close to Santa Rosa.
 

Graphite Dave

Dave Orton
x2

I also second the statement about the second time being 10x easier, but there is no second time.
I also thought that the second build would be much easier and take half the time because I had the experience from the first build. That did not prove to be the case. Taking about the same amount of time and is actually more frustrating because you now know at each stage how much more work will be required to complete the build. There will not be a third build. The main advantage to a second build is to make changes to improve the conversion based on what you learned from the first build.
 

markxengineering

Active member
That did not prove to be the case.
I can see how doing two builds in series would not save much time, but 2 in parallel or close to parallel would. The things that take extra for me are
- planning/internet research/ordering. 1-2 hours a day for several months
- oops, that should be 1 inch to the left. Now need to buy new material because I used the last piece
- oops, ran out of screws, broke a tool, etc. Now wait for Amazon to deliver
- oops, forgot to run wires for this switch that I want over here. Now remove half the interior to access
- this is functional, but it will bug me knowing it's not perfect because I'll see it everyday- start over

Many things that would be avoided in a shop with spares of everything, and experience having already successfully measured and cut once.
 

ThomD

Member
Oh, NOW everyone admits that everything takes 4 times longer than expected.

(I'm glad it isn't just me.)
 

sprint2freedom

2008 NCV3 170ext
- Starting with a 170 Crew. I need to seat 5 and sleep 5. 2 adults and 3 kids age 9, 7 and 7. Kids are pretty small so I am thinking one modified foam bed on the bench seat and two bunks somewhere. I hammock camp and make my own hammocks so I’m visualizing a kids sleeping solution that might be like a fixed bridge hammock(s). Or maybe it just inflatables on the floor.
Something to think about: kids get bigger quickly.
Part-time builds can very easily drag into two or more years.. by the time your build is "done" it may not accomodate your growing family for much longer.

- Like to use as mobile office as much as possible when not traveling. This requires quality AC unit, large battery bank, ample solar, and more. In Northern California it can get pretty hot. I don’t have to use it every day if it’s too hot so I don’t need a ‘holy grai’ Level system.

- Storage for bikes under the main bed. I haven’t decided on using Flarespace or not to get more room but either way I need to park two adult bikes and 3 small bikes INSIDE the van.

- Galley, probably use a portable stove so I can cook outside whenever possible. Need a good size fridge to for 5 people.

- Latrine/shower, I’d love to have a wet shower and toilet set up but that seems very optimistic. Although plumbing is one of the skills I’m most good at. I’d settle for a Porta-Potty and or an outdoor shower.
You've listed some wants/needs.

Sleeping five people plus bikes is a pretty tall order. Everybody needs a place to sit (with a seatbelt), and a place to sleep, and a place to park their bike. If you can pull that off, there's not much room for anything else so you'd have to be creative. I'm sure it can be done, but it might not be too comfortable..

A mobile office is a fairly different buildout than a family hauler/sleeper.

What is your use-case? Are you traveling to cities, campgrounds, primative areas? How often- 3-4 weeks a year, every weekend, full time? Will this be during winter, summer, year-round? The investment in time and money to complete a project like this may not make sense once you look at how much free time you'll burn completing it. Do you want this badly enough to make the (possibly irrational) choice to do it? :hmmm: Keeping in mind that you will have to forego the very opportunities for outdoor recreation you seek during the long buildout. Let's be honest, many of us here do- but it's not a good decision for everybody.

How picky are you about quality? Does it matter if your van looks like it cuts its own hair, or do you need it to look flashy and impressive?

Other than my motorcycle it will likely be my daily driver too.
I'm working on a build for two adults in a 170EXT while using it as my daily driver. I'll caution that this can be frustrating as it limits how much you can get done unless your schedule allows for long contiguous chunks of time to devote to the build. You will haul out and set up tools and materials, work a little, then have to put everything away and carry it all back to the house. Repeat 1200 times until the build is completed.
 
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OldWest

2004 T1N Westfalia
Strategy.

Get the Sprinter and set it up for weekend camping and light mobile office use.

Everything you buy for camping can possibly be incorporated in a build-out or as a supplement.

For light office use, buy stuff contractors would buy like front passenger seat office storage, extra auxillary battery, etc.

Phase 1: Car Camping

(Everything can be used in other situations.)

Sleeping: Front seats have small bed on top. Bench seat has sleeping. Inflatable mattress/pads elsewhere.

Big attached tent (various types). As kids get older, can do standalone tent.

Kitchen/Cooking: Portable grill. Portable cooler or for more bucks, fridge. If use campsite with hookups, portable microwave, induction stove, etc. Look for easy to remove/transport camping systems.

Note: There are several companies with clever ideas, including one company where you buy various interchangeable sized modules for cooking, sleeping, etc. Another company designed a full camper interior which slides into a van or the entire thing is stored outside the van (like a truck camper for inside a van). These ideas may allow you to build and install quickly.

Bathroom: Portable porta-potti. Better, portable composting toilet. Portable solar shower.

Water: Portable jugs.

Bike rack. Even if keep bicycles inside most of the time, a hitch bike rack may be handy as needed.

Phase 2: Add systems which provide more independence from hookup campgrounds, more comfort, etc.

Biggest factor is how long you'll need what features--weekend camping in a full-service hookup campground is very different than full-time living with 5 people (family of four or five have lived full-time and home-schooled in an Airstream Westfalia with a towed utility storage trailer, traveling around the U.S).

Electrical: Batteries. Generator. Solar. Etc. What eqpt do you need to run (fridge, cooking, etc.) and for how long. If driving everyday and able to plug-in every couple of days, then smaller, simpler system might work (e.g., solar may not be cost effective for weekend campers but may be a necessity for full-time boondockers).

Built-ins: Cabinets, galley, beds, etc.

When doing phase 2, try to avoid touching the front passenger part of van so you can continue to use it for family.

Links:

http://www.doityourselfrv.com/european-camper-in-a-box-conversions/

https://newatlas.com/qubic-modules-car-camping/40062

https://www.trendhunter.com/trends/bett-mobil
 
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Akatdog

2006 3500 170
Similar situation except 4 people but my solution should be adaptable for 5 if you have one sleep up front. Starting at the back of the van 80" rails mounted to sidewall for Adult bed platform. first 3-4 feet from the back door is bike rack/storage. Above this 3 motorcycle ramp bed planks stack with split mattress. Next 4 feet are a dinette and table drops down to form kids lower bunk bed. Rails run from storage area behind dinette seats and the 3 planks pull out to make a full size queen bunk above the dinette. The next 3-4 feet are a mix of counter and full height cabinets for fridge/sink/storage. 2 passenger stock seat mounted in first row position behind drivers seat. You will need a three seater for front bench but for mine the 2 passenger seat will be unlatched and rotated 90 degrees along drivers side wall when parked/camping to open up floor space in front of slider and facilitate parking along the road and looking out on the ocean. Passenger seat swivels for conversation set with 2 passenger seat.
 
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Thanks for all of the responses. I am reading them and taking it to heart.

My primary use case will be in order of usage:
1) Mobile office
2) Bike hauler / gear hauler short trips
3) Extended long range Camper

My work is 100% online based. Right now I work from home everyday and this gets very boring. I want to be able to go out to some of the local and not so local biking and hiking trails. Setup and work for a few hours, then ride/hike for a few hours...repeat as time allows. Or do an overnight once in awhile on my own. Decent amount of AC time would be a nice to have but not 100% required as I don't HAVE to work outside on the hottest days. That said, I am budgeting for a good sized battery bank and as much solar as I can fit. I will make accommodations to charge while driving, from shore power and maybe from a generator as well. Will likely get outside assistance with this part of the build from someone local.

As for camping, I really don't know how much we will do. I picture using the van more as a 'base camp' for getting to trailheads and or different National Parks. I prefer to hike and camp in the back country. My wife..not so much. My kids are still a bit small to go too far into the back country for very long. So we would probably camp where it would be possible to use tents (hammocks in our case) but not always. So I need to retain the ability to sleep all 5 as needed. The goal is to get outside so hopefully we will only get cooped up inside due to bad weather or when passing through an urban area.

Also, when I do have all 5 of us on a trip I won't be working (much) so a dedicated workspace won't be required during those periods.

It's always been a goal to get my family out into the wilderness and to see our National Parks. I'm sure there are easier ways but a Van just seems to open up the most possibilities.
 

sprint2freedom

2008 NCV3 170ext
Have you considered a 144wb crew towing an Airstream or Scamp style trailer? Kids sleep in the van, adults in the trailer (or vice versa).

Put the electrical system, solar and mobile office in the van, and run an umbilical to power the trailer. Leave the trailer behind at the campground during the day as a base camp or at home when working or not camping with the whole family.

Your build effort would be reduced since the bed/water/kitchen systems are (presumably) already in the trailer. You get the flexibility of parking a 144, more privacy, and easier day trips (with van only).
 
Have you considered a 144wb crew towing an Airstream or Scamp style trailer?
I initially started researching travel trailers because I already have a pickup. At that time the goal was just for family travel at that time. Airstream is certainly nice but I would lose the ability to work outside the home on a regular basis. I just can't see myself hooking up and towing it around just to get away from my house. After learning about Van conversions I decided I really want that mobility and flexibility. I could probably afford a low cost travel trailer and a Sprinter but not a Sprinter and an Airstream. Airstreams are freaking expensive. You could do some sweet road trips with a setup like you describe though!
 

GeorgeRa

2013 Sprinter DIY 144WB, Portland OR
I just read your first and last posts, big project. Really big. I suggest to find a capable van worldwide which would fulfill your needs and use it as a model.

What helped me tremendously in my conversion was knowing exactly what we want and defined specific models to follow, 2 of our previously owned VW Westfalias and the specific Safari Condo.

Your goals are certainly achievable as long you don’t embark on too many bleeding trends.

My specific recommendations:
1. Get a 3-seater rock and roll sofa bed from EU. https://www.campervan-hq.com/blogs/news/campervan-hq-gear-update-a-proper-campervan-bench-seat-bed
2. Get solar and batteries from AM Solar.
3. Heating space / water
a. LPG – Truma
b. Diesel – Webasto Dual Top / Espar D2 / Espar D4/5 + Isotemp
4. Fridge – compressor
5. A-B pillars hammock/bed with steel bars for one child a la VW Westfalia
6. Garage - reconsider, it could be a contradiction with 5 people accommodations.
7. Reconsider a van-based C in lieu of a B.

Good luck.
 
Thanks for the reply George. I've followed your build with great appreciation.

It's not clear to me how the rock and roll bed would work. I guess that would eliminate the raised bed/garage like you suggest doing.

Really don't want a class C. This won't be a full stealth build but I like the ideas of being able to park/camp where you for sure could not with a C.

It might not work out being very functional for 5 people on any kind of extended trips. If it could work for short term 'emergency' sleeping enroute to various national parks that would still be good.

If I end up with my first priority of a mobile office/bike hauler that can comfortably camp 2 or 3 and 5 in a pinch that would be OK too. When I take my boys camping I often just bring one or two because it's much easier to organize a camping trip with just one or two boys. Then we get more quality time too.
 
Here is an idea from England to stack two kids up front.

http://www.cabbunk.co.uk/

Hi, Thanks for this post. I have seen these and it confirmed my own idea of making some custom kids hammocks for the van like this or similar to the ones George mentioned that go across the front seats. I already make my own lightweight camping hammocks and could probably come up with something functional. That is in fact my plan A. That or bunks like the ones done by Outsidevan and sold by Adventurewagon. I think something with minimal cabinetry using a raised bed with a combination of bunks/hammocks like above could work. My boys love sleeping in hammocks and bunks :)
 
If interested I can spend time with you to answer some of your questions and show you a completed conversion using 80/20. PM if you want to visit. We live close to Santa Rosa.


Hi Dave,

I’ve been reading about your build and the 80/20 thread since probably the first day I started researching conversions. I will absolutely take you up the offer to check out you van and pick your brain. Sonoma county is my old stomping ground. Thanks!!!
 

HarryN

Well-known member
Thanks for all of the responses. I am reading them and taking it to heart.

My primary use case will be in order of usage:
1) Mobile office
2) Bike hauler / gear hauler short trips
3) Extended long range Camper

My work is 100% online based. Right now I work from home everyday and this gets very boring. I want to be able to go out to some of the local and not so local biking and hiking trails. Setup and work for a few hours, then ride/hike for a few hours...repeat as time allows. Or do an overnight once in awhile on my own. Decent amount of AC time would be a nice to have but not 100% required as I don't HAVE to work outside on the hottest days. That said, I am budgeting for a good sized battery bank and as much solar as I can fit. I will make accommodations to charge while driving, from shore power and maybe from a generator as well. Will likely get outside assistance with this part of the build from someone local.

As for camping, I really don't know how much we will do. I picture using the van more as a 'base camp' for getting to trailheads and or different National Parks. I prefer to hike and camp in the back country. My wife..not so much. My kids are still a bit small to go too far into the back country for very long. So we would probably camp where it would be possible to use tents (hammocks in our case) but not always. So I need to retain the ability to sleep all 5 as needed. The goal is to get outside so hopefully we will only get cooped up inside due to bad weather or when passing through an urban area.

Also, when I do have all 5 of us on a trip I won't be working (much) so a dedicated workspace won't be required during those periods.

It's always been a goal to get my family out into the wilderness and to see our National Parks. I'm sure there are easier ways but a Van just seems to open up the most possibilities.
It is relatively straight forward to have 3+ hrs of A/C this way, even with AGM batteries and not using the generator. Going beyond 4 hrs of A/C use per day tends to take you either to LiFe batteries or using a generator in eco mode to supplement the system.
 

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