Purchasing a 2002 High Top that doesn't start

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billintomahawk

Guest
Hey ya'll,

Everything is true in the two posts above mine.

Also yes, we have checked the HP pressure. We rarely get above 100 bar. So it's clear that we don't have enough pressure, but we're unsure why. As stated above, when we removed the connector and tried to start the van, we were able to purge the air, but the van still didn't start.

One of my questions is about the difference between the fuel rail solenoid and the low pressure sensor. ** How does one check the low pressure sensor?**

Also - does anyone with a 2002 (bill?) know how to do the fuel solenoid leak off test without removing the intake manifold?
Guys,
I never had to go that far. All my problems were continual air in the lines and a no HOT start condition.
When things cooled off(by opening the hood and waiting 30 minutes) the engine started again.

The problem for me was fixed by replacing every o-ring, every clamp, or double clamping, cutting the used fuel line ends off/back on all the clamped connections on the fuel line.

Also.
Replacing the diverter valve and o-ring and using a non water separating fuel filter.

I had to do EVERYTHING right. Then there was still air in the lines but running the machine 25 miles purged it. I stopped, opened the hood no air seen with a running engine, shut off the engine, restarted, waited 5 minutes , restarted. waited 15 minutes, restarted.

My problem was resolved. Remember it was always a HOT start problem. It was not electronic, I replaced no sensors.

FWIW removing the fuel filter and replacing it I filled the filter with fuel and cranked the engine. The system purged itself with no problem and stared fine cold after a few tries. No might vac , no issues, just crank about 3-4 10 second bursts and then it ran fine cold.

I did this 3 or 4 times.

BTW I second everything you say about Joel @ MMS.

https://www.millionmilesprinter.com/shop

bill
 
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JSL

New member
Really valuable info. Thanks Bill. Next step (now that we have air in the lines) is to change the fuel filter. I guess we should also look at changing the diverter valve as well. Thanks.
 
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billintomahawk

Guest
Really valuable info. Thanks Bill. Next step (now that we have air in the lines) is to change the fuel filter. I guess we should also look at changing the diverter valve as well. Thanks.
It was Doktor A(the legend) who told me to replace the diverter, well he didn't tell me, he insisted. FWIW.

Cut those rotten fuel line ends off.
I had a brand new battery and kept it charged.
Also my machine ran fine with long strings of air bubbles in the lines, it just would not start hot.

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grumpy-old-van

A little bit Oooh Errrr
Glad you got it sorted and its a simple fix

Re; the low pressure sensor, you can just unplug it and the ECU will ignore it and run from the HP sensor alone
Wouldnt do that long term as you risk running the HP pump dry but it can help isolate an issue
 

JSL

New member
Hey Bill, did you replace the diverter with the stock one? Or a different one? Is this the "fuel water separator"?
 
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billintomahawk

Guest
Hey Bill, did you replace the diverter with the stock one? Or a different one? Is this the "fuel water separator"?
I replaced with a MB diverter and used a Baldwin fuel filter.
Eliminated the water separation option and possible air leaks.
There are risks involved but I am willing to take them for the extra reliability.

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Nautamaran

2004 140” HRC 2500 (Crewed)
The fuel water separator is a feature of the stock fuel filter.

Regarding your rail pressure solenoid code, open circuit may be a wiring fault.
The solenoid uses PWM control to vary closing pressure on a ball valve, so with zero current flowing your rail will not build pressure. The following documents in the “Service Scans” directory describe the rail solenoid, but I’d start by confirming that the wiring back to the ECM is fault free. I believe the 2002 solenoid valve can still be replaced separately without purchasing a whole new rail assembly, though perhaps not.

-dave




 

JSL

New member
Thanks ya'll. Great info. This weekend we plan to:

First, build a temp shelter bc it's going to be bloody cold

Then:

*change fuel filter to "no leaks" one
* swap out diverter
* swap filter o-rings
* change out fuel line + o-rings from filter to LP pump
* change out o-rings on fuel pressure solenoid (and check wiring, etc)
* cross our fingers and hope like hell it starts!!!
 

vsilinin

New member
Hey Ya'll,

Checking back in. Still working on the crank/no start issue. After 10-15 seconds of cranking, I hear 4 distinct beeps and the dash lights flash. This is my main query. Below I'm going to mention some other "updates" or symptoms that might also matter, because I'm not sure which things might be related to this.


* We got an icarsoft, it wouldn't communicate with the OBD. We sent it back, awaiting an Autel. We really REALLY want to check rail pressure. It DID give some codes under the "Sprinter" heading. We don't know for how long those codes have been stored in there.

* Voltage and Grounds checked on the OBD port

* All fuses healthy

* OBD socket had pins in #5 (a ground) pushed far up to the top. We got it to look normal (both pins separate) but still not sure it's back to working order. It reads 0 volts on the multimeter, but it's a ground pin, so that's expected.

* This vehicle was a fleet vehicle and some wiring stuff looks weeeeeird. Some of the wiring is gnarly and spliced poorly. All lines going from glow plugs to module have been spliced (WHY?). It's a newer model and some of the wires were dangling. I believe this is why the "glow plug module" code was thrown. Fixed all that.

*The high-voltage fuse box is spliced into the copper wire coming from the positive battery terminal. It is really loose. Is this for real?

*There is a green+blue line (maybe 12 gauge) originating at one of the ECU sensors, that is in a bundle through the firewall, but then pulled from the bundle about in-line horizontally with the alternator, and re-routed (??) :eek: to the alternator. I can't tell what's stock and what's not. Either way, that was also spliced poorly. It didn't seem to make a difference when we cranked with and without these lines spliced in properly. Still unsure what this line does, I can't find it in the manual. It seems the only blue/green line going to the ECU is the TPS. This is not that. However I don't read wiring diagrams well. Could be wrong.

* The van doesn't understand when the key is out of the ignition (I think). When you open the passenger side door, the beeping sound happens - as if the van thinks the key is still in the ignition. Additionally, I can pull the key out of the ignition from the "on" position. Sometimes the beeping will stop when I fiddle with the dome light.

*I saw a small pile of sawdust (maybe 1-2 in in diameter) with some mouse droppings, under the hood, at the firewall. Can't find any other traces of mice, but for sure one/some were there for a short time.

*Once every five or ten times (potentially increasing in frequency, hard to tell just yet) when I turn the key, NOTHING happens. All I have to do is turn it off, and then turn it directly back on, and the dash lights up/it cranks. (It does not start)

* When you press the "unlock" button on the key, the headlights flash, but the FOB does not lock or unlock the doors.

*Sometimes, the RPM moves only when you turn the key from "off" to "accessory" (just a tiny bit). Sometimes the RPM moves also (just a tiny bit) during cranking. Also this may be user-error in eyesight and/or blindness from staring for too long at forums

* Did the in-line fuse test and all glow plugs checked out A-OK

* Did the Injector Leak-off test, no fuel is coming up through the injectors. None. On the first crank, fuel was coming out of the fuel line, and I realized it wasn't clamped down enough. After that, we saw air in the lines when we hadn't before. No fuel came through after that. Not sure if that is correlation or causation.

Again, my main question is about the beeps and the lights flashing. However, I'll take whatever I can get from anyone who has any idea about which pieces are related to one another! This will get easier when we get a code reader that works.... :frown:
Just a thought and something that I went through with an '05 and a "Start Error" as well as a "no crank" "no start" issue later. One of the wires feeding into the ECU seemed to have an internal break in the conductors causing these problems. When I would wiggle the wire bundle...all sorts of things would happen, including the glow plug relay working/not working...and the starter relay working/not working.
 
How are things going with the van?

I also have a 2002 so it has the clear fuel lines and no electric fuel pump like the later sprinters.

I had some trouble with mine having to crank a while to start.

Now it has:
All 3 clear fuel lines new
new fuel filter and return valve and some of the rubber hoses
new low pressure fuel pump
new crush ring and o-ring around the low pressure fuel sensor down by the fuel filter / manifold area as it seemed to be getting air in
new alternator
new battery

My van seems to require a few short bursts to start. It may fire once and then nothing more, but a few more short bursts will usually start it. I don't know why.

I don't see much if any air in the lines.

Once started it runs perfect.
 

JSL

New member
It's going okay. The problem wound up being the fuel solenoid o-rings - though we did change out the filter and we do still have air in the lines, and are continuing to suck air... but it doesn't seem to be bothering anything right now. Once we got it running, we took it for a jog around the block and not 30 seconds later, a brake line blew. There is a lot of work to do on the van - for instance, we broke a connector on the end of the 3-way fuel line. We have that zip-tied in for now, but there is work to do there. The fuel line from the filter to the LP pump has been changed out. (Easy.) We are working in upstate New York, so the temperature is biting cold. We'll be attempting the brake lines this weekend, along with some other routine maintenance, like oil changes and air filter changes, cleaning the MAF sensor, etc. Joel @MMS has devised a good low-pressure fuel pump that will turn the fuel system from negative pressure to positive pressure, and we'll probably experiment with that, as well as with a pre-filter to the fuel filter, as I intend to run the van on biodiesel. (No need to comment on that, it's happening.) It continues to start now, even in the frigid weather - we did add some Diesel 911 and that seems to be helping. Just hoping it will stay strong long enough for me to get it roadworthy...
 
Thanks for the info. Glad yours is doing well. I'm not sure where the fuel solenoid is so not sure about that? I wouldn't mind checking it on mine.

Hopefully you'll get a mild day to do your work or can put it inside a building or something so it's not too cold to work on.
 

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