Seeking opinions from the Experts on Two Prospective Sprinters

Hi all,

Glad to have been directed to this forum.

I’ve decided to live the van life and convert a sprinter to a lovely home (with cupboards, a table, etc). Looking forward to the project.

I’ve been looking at van's for several months now. I spoke with a mechanic who has worked a lot on Sprinters, and he recommended a ’04-’06. Searching through the forum, I found this posting: https://sprinter-source.com/forum/showthread.php?t=64061&highlight=DIESEL+PARTICULATE. It was very helpful and informative. I’ve had a line of Volvo 240s and have wrenched on those, so I have some mechanical experience.

I live in the Southwest, and I’ve had my eye on a couple vans. Overall, I’m looking for the best bang for the buck with a high roof and room to live in (and stretch out).

These are the two vans I'm looking at: it seems that the first one is the 140 wheel base but is the longer one, and the 2nd is the 170 wheel base but the shorter one. I have yet to drive a Sprinter, so I don't really know how the two compare in total length and which is roomier.

https://inlandempire.craigslist.org/cto/d/murrieta-mercedes-sprinter-van-turbo/6985945419.html (I talked to the owner of this one, and he's willing to do $10,000)

https://lasvegas.craigslist.org/cto/d/las-vegas-2008-mercedes-dodge-sprinter/6978548561.html

If it’s true that the older T1N vans get better gas mileage, then maybe I should go with the ’06 vs the ’08. Has that been your experience? I also be living in it, so doing a fair deal of city driving. "Ptheland" mentions that the T1Ns do quite a bit better amidst the city. I know the 08 comes with the DPF which adds something that could go wrong, but it doesn't seem that they fail too often.

Would appreciate any and all thoughts.

Thanks much!

James

There is a real big mileage difference, the '06 has 132K with clean title and the '08 has 431K and a salvage title!

There is only one length body on the 140" wheelbase. The modern 170" van did come in an extended length body.

Do your homework before you buy. The right van is awesome. The wrong van is bad news. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercedes-Benz_Sprinter

Whatever you decide have the van looked at by a knowledgeable Sprinter mechanic.

https://sandiego.craigslist.org/csd/ctd/d/san-diego-2006-dodge-sprinter-158wb/6972592608.html

This seller in San Diego is a mechanic named Tim that services and sells lots of sprinters.
Pre sale maintenance done and he has a 45 day warranty.
Worth a look if you are in the area.

ranchworld said:

There is a real big mileage difference, the '06 has 132K with clean title and the '08 has 431K and a salvage title!

There is only one length body on the 140" wheelbase. The modern 170" van did come in an extended length body.

Do your homework before you buy. The right van is awesome. The wrong van is bad news. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercedes-Benz_Sprinter

Whatever you decide have the van looked at by a knowledgeable Sprinter mechanic.

Click to expand...

Do you think that the rebuilt engine makes up for the fact that it has 431,000 miles, or when you mention the mileage difference, are you thinking there's a lot else that I should be thinking about with Sprinters with that many miles?

"rebuilt" means very different things depending on the source. A MB remain is basically factory new, and hopefully has new accessories. A rebuilt engine from the ultra budget builders is a basically a refresh and seals on a high mileage engine.

Even with a good reman engine, you still have trans, axle, seats, interior, and suspension that will wear with mileage. At 400k its likely most of those things have been replaced or repaired, but you would want records.

The T1N is mis-listed as a 158". It's a 140". Imo the best option for all of the compromises that one makes when choosing a size, super maneuverable and lots of space. A 158" will be a bit harder to turn/drive/park but still manageable.

That T1N would be my vote, that's low mileage but not "too" low mileage, and not too bad of a price.

I've never had or driven an NCV van (the '08) and I've only read of the DPF and other emissions related items that give people headaches, so I can't comment on their reliability, but it is true that the T1N is simpler and easier to fix, most things are very DIYable.

430K is a lot of road, many other things will either have been gone through, or will need going through soon. Like MWD said, you'd want some documentation.

My vote? T1N...

So I've spoken with both people on the phone: yeah, the T1N owner seems a bit shady, even after confirming with him that it is the 140" he has changed his ad (again) and written that it is a 158" (in his newest reiteration). I just texted him why he posted it was a 158", after confirming with me that it was the shorter 140", and homeboy got a bit defensive (texting back whether I had a life, or if just went around dreaming and low-balling people)...pretty f-in weird. On the other hand, the guy in Las Vegas owns a "high-end" touring company. He seems to keep his "fleet" in great condition (he proclaimed that he has to...and then named three or four hotels that I have never heard of but with Italian sounding, haute-couteur names that he serves). The engine is rebuilt by MB--he was quick to mention that those rebuilds go for 15k. He said he had records of everything.

For what it's worth, my impression is that Will (the owner of the 170" '08) is thorough, upfront, and honest. He said business goes up and down, it's down now, and he's downsizing his fleet. The other homeboy seems cuckoo AF. No idea why he's continually changing his post. He claims he's not desperate to sell it but his actions speak otherwise. I asked him on the phone what his lowest offer would be...said he wasn't playing games, what would I offer him? Said $10,000. Homeboy said no way, lowest he would go would be $12,000. 10 minutes later he texts me $11,500 and tells me to sleep on it. I don't respond. An hour later he texts $11,000. I don't respond. Then the next day he texts that he'll honor my $10,000 if I buy it in the next day or two but if I don't have the money or am going to offer lower, don't even come.

Not really the "relationship" you want to enter into when buying something comparatively expensive from someone.

Sounds like people here are leaning toward the T1N though. I don't really think that the "gut" is always that great, which is why I reached out here.

Can anyone confirm or disconfirm whether the T1N's get better gas mileage and are better around the city?

Midwesterner--I read through your thoroughly documented updates from your T1N. Are you now down-under? Do you feel that the T1N 140" is roomy enough to live in?

Thanks much!

Neither - keep shopping. If you have 10k to spend, I don't see how you couldn't do better. The T1N looks super worn on the interior for a mere 131k miles. 10k is still too much, IMO. The advice to buy a T1N for reliability is over-repeated and outdated at this point - they're all antiques at this point. I'm having trouble finding parts for a 2008 NCV3.

A commercial high mileage NCV3 from Vegas? Dicey!! Maybe you'll be next to start yet another thread about how it exploded on the way home.

Also, just called Tim. Made an appointment with him, though things in his shop seem to be up in the $15,000 range, though everything is gone through and fixed.

I have a T1N so I cannot speak to the NCV3, but I would recommend that anyone considering buying a T1N should either be a very competent DIY mechanic or should have an extra $10K after purchase in the bank ready to spend on repairs - hopefully you will not need all of it, but it is likely you will likely need to put at least a few thousand into it.

The van drives wonderfully on mountain roads for something as large as it is and the fuel mileage is truly remarkable, but it is an electronically complicated machine and knowledgeable shops are far apart on the vast interstates. If you plan to keep your van near home and have a competent Sprinter mechanic that is one thing, but if you plan to tour the country (or the world) you should be able to do our own troubleshooting and diagnosis at a minimum.

Although I have been going through every system on my van and have been replacing parts with OEM MB/Dodge parts to ensure its reliability, I am not sure I would loan the van to a friend. Parts for the diesel engine are so expensive! - a bad tank of diesel (with water in it) could lead to a $5K repair bill if you don't realize what happened and keep driving. Likewise, a cooling system failure followed by continued driving will result in $15K in damage. I believe I know enough to stop before the expensive damage happens, but some of my friends would not. Do you think you would know when to stop or when it is ok to continue into the next town? If not, you will need to learn.

I don't want to steer you away from a Sprinter, but I suspect there are a lot of people who buy these older vans and are truly surprised by the size of the repair bills - again, don't spend every dollar you have on the van and the conversion - make sure you have a cushion for repairs, and make sure it is a large one. Hopefully you will not need it!



Edit: One final word on the NCV3, from reading the forums, it appears that van is even more complicated and emissions gremlins are a common complaint, so I did not mean to imply the T1N is less reliable than the NCV3. I have the T1N and, as I do all my own repairs, I am quite glad I have the simpler systems of the earlier van. Good luck!

Onefin said:

https://sandiego.craigslist.org/csd/ctd/d/san-diego-2006-dodge-sprinter-158wb/6972592608.html

This seller in San Diego is a mechanic named Tim that services and sells lots of sprinters.
Pre sale maintenance done and he has a 45 day warranty.
Worth a look if you are in the area.

Click to expand...

I wouldn't buy from a situation like this either. The main issue is that you are buying from someone who can and has financial incentive to hide problems at a professional level - GFL finding them as a newbie.

The bigger problem is the supply stream here is still commercial. These owners know their vans well and they don't sell the reliable ones, they sell the ones that are economically EOL. As a buyer, you'll either be paying for repairs, or you're extremely lucky.

The other problem - 15k is too expensive. He's buying these things for likely half that and putting "lipstick on the pig" for a tidy profit. You could go buy from the same place and pay a mechanic likely less to end up with the same. Super high risk, overall.

Look for conscientious private owners - with detailed records.

That's too much money for that T1N and that mileage IMHO. The NCV3 is off the table, I'd say. Manufacturers term that Vegas shuttle task as "Severe Duty".

It is definitely a 158 by the ad pix, BTW. If you're not camping with a big family, a 140 is just fine. I actually have too much room in Frito, but I'm nearly always solo. A 140 effortlessly parks anywhere (height notwithstanding). Not true for a 158.

The difference in fuel economy between the NCV3 and the T1N is substantial if you drive lots. Frito now has consumed more dollars in fuel than his purchase cost. $20K, back in 08 and he was virtually new @ just under 10K miles.

Doktor A advised me in 08 to go with the T1N, even though off-the-lot new NCV3s were going for similar prices (the mid twenties). I'm forever glad I followed his advice.

I'd either keep looking for a cherry T1N or bite the bullet and go F*rd. There's a lot to like about the Transit.

On a tight budget, I would be tempted to buy a pick up truck and a decent used travel trailer. (not a Jayco or similar)

Pretty much anyone will work on a pickup truck and parts are relatively inexpensive.

Used travel trailers are around in large volumes all over.

Jades said:

"Ptheland" mentions that the T1Ns do quite a bit better amidst the city.

Click to expand...

Boy, if I ever said that I must have been on something.

There's really not much difference between T1Ns and NCV3s in terms of city driving. The wheelbase makes far more difference. The 140/144 will be a bit easier to maneuver than their 158/170 counterparts.

I'm very glad I have a 144 NCV3 driving around (and parking in) the city/suburbs. But I'm not living out of the van, so the additional space of a 170 is not at all important to me.

I have this (the one on the left in the below pic ) I’m getting ready to list.

- 2004 140 tall boy with 154k miles. Cargo.
- always registers in Ca
- oil change
- trans flush including torque converter. New fluid. New TCM plug connector (previous was not leaking, but it’s the right thing to do to go ahead and change it as part of the service).
- rear diff fluid change
- all new filters; fuel, engine oil, air, cabin air
- coolant flush
- new serpentine belt, belt tensioner, idler pulleys (I go with oem sizing, so one smaller non ribbed, then one larger ribbed
- new viscous fan clutch
- cooling system has a very difficult time allowing the vehicle get above 215 even on 100 degree days
- new tires
- no signs of current or previous Black Death.
- injectors are mapped/coded to ecm
- injector correction values show them all to be good
- no blow by
- Star C3 test shows good compression between cylinders is good
- harmonic balancer is not showing signs of separation and I checked the torque on the crank bolt... above 240 ft/lbs of torque applied.
- all exhaust manifold bolts are in tact and no exhaust leak
- turbo blades are super clean with no nicks
- purrs like a kitty cat
- body is in good shape although there are a few small dings and scratches here and there.
- seats are in good condition
- all the ventilation fins are intact and cycle as intended
- windshield has no cracks, but has one dime sized chip on the pass side.
- t21 recall completed with new instrument cluster
- registered through sept ‘20 in Ca
- title in hand in my name. I’m not title flipping

I believe the Sprinter OneFin put up is properly priced if the above items have been gone through.

Although I would never provide a warranty because I feel that’s an invite for some shadiness on the buyers side, I do have references for previous om647 Sprinters I have sold and references for a broad range of mechanical and maintenance performed on 2002-2006 Sprinters. I’m also passionate about keeping these vehicles on the road in good shape so I would never abandon the buyer.

PM me if interested. I’m in Nor Cal, East Bay.

Guys, this is awesome. Exactly the kind of stuff I was looking for. Forums like this straighten my slanted disdain for technology and the internet...it's really humanity at its finest.

NBB, you make good points, and I appreciate them. It isn't lost on me how much vans coming from businesses like that must be marked up. I visited the shop this evening, which gave me a chance to drive Sprinters around a bit. I drove a T1N with a 140" wheelbase and a NCV3 2008 with 75,000 miles (going for roughly $20K). One thing that was noticeable was actually how much better the NCV3 drove then the T1N, which only had 27,000 miles (government issued). Maybe that's where all that gas is going--for a bigger engine. It felt more powerful and just seemed nicer and newer (especially for only a 2-year difference). (Maybe it's just the T1N I was driving; I have no other T1N to compare it to).

Glasseye, thanks for your input re the "Vegas" van and for your further knowledge on gas mileage difference. (I've also toyed with maybe trying to do a vegetable oil/biodiesel conversion, though maybe its harder to find veggie oil these days.) I think you, among others, have dissuaded me from going with what seemed to me to be a decent deal.

Ptheland, yeah, I think you're where I'm at...the 140/144 would make life in a city so much easier, but (there's always that but) I'm going to be living in it. I've gone through some blogs and have read posts from people who have had both. The jury is out. Also, I think maybe I could've been clearer, but I think what you were referring to in your post was more about how the Sprinter would hold up in city conditions...I've read about the whole DPF regeneration thing (and it seems like longer drives are probably better?), so maybe you're still right, after all?

I did find this diamond in the rough: https://losangeles.craigslist.org/sgv/cto/d/monterey-park-2007-dodge-sprinter-van/6979388529.html. Just spoke with the owner, it only has 133,000 miles. Let's hope the decals come off. Though maybe it might not be bad for going incognito in San Diego. Do you think $14k is reasonable? Lower? It's not a blank canvass, but it does have some things that will be useful--the water tank, the glass door divider. I'd want to add some windows, but it does have a skylight. Anyone have any reservations?

Thanks all, for the advice. It's been super helpful.

The Pet Grooming van looks clean. If the graphics are vinyl, they are easy to remove with a heat gun (or good hot hair dryer). If they have been applied for a long time, you might have the underlying paint discolored compared to the paint in the sun the whole time. Might be fun to have an RV with a full bathtub. :-D

Jades said:

but I think what you were referring to in your post was more about how the Sprinter would hold up in city conditions...I've read about the whole DPF regeneration thing (and it seems like longer drives are probably better?), so maybe you're still right, after all?

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Ahh. That issue. I do recall posting about that. Yes, a T1N does not have a DPF, while the NCV3 does. But I think the bigger issue - applicable to both models - is that the van will last longer and survive for more total miles if it gets a lot of highway use. But then again, that applies to almost any vehicle.

Personally, I think it's important to get some highway miles in each tank of fuel when you have a DPF equipped Sprinter. Short-trip city driving can interrupt a DPF regen, forcing the regen to start over next time you drive the van. That's not great for the DPF, plus it burns extra fuel. A brief bit of driving without stops will allow any regen to finish. My recollection is that a regen takes something like 10 minutes. So it doesn't take a long drive. An interrupted regen every now and then is no big deal. But if you're a heavy city driver like me, those interruptions could happen very frequently.

As to usability of the shorter vs longer wheelbase, go find some older threads by Midwestdrifter. He spent several months on vacation in his 140 wheelbase T1N driving around Australia and New Zealand - which is basically the same as full time living as far as I'm concerned. He documented his build and trip very thoroughly. The 140 seemed to work pretty well for him. But I'm sure there are some compromises in that choice as well. Still - it might give you some insight into one person's practical thinking. Plus, he's a nice guy and pretty willing to share info and experience. I got the chance to meet him and his van at the end of his journeys, complete with a bit of imported outback dirt that got cleaned out while sitting in my driveway. It was a nice visit, even if it was hot as hades that day.

Thanks--thinking about getting some highway miles for each tank of fuel is a good tip.

Haha...Midwestdrifter responded to one of my earlier posts on this thread. I saw his link and clicked on it, which brought be to his myriad posts, and I arrived at roughly the same conclusion as you: spending several months on vacation in a van is the same thing as living in it. And so I slowly leafed through his posts. This brought me to three more conclusions. 1) His van looks/is amazing. 2) There was a large investment of time. 3) I am no Midwestdrifter.

I will surely be returning to his posts, though.