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Old 01-21-2013, 09:04 PM   #1
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Default Fuse Block #2 Fuse Map 2004

I've had some problems interpreting my Fuse Map for the Fuse Block #2 under the driver seat. I can be dense sometimes though. I think I've figured some things out. The listings on the right side refer to the relay rails under the seat cushion. The similar nomenclature on many of the listings can make it appear as though it is just repeating the same information.

To make things worse, on mine there seem to be some fuses which aren't identified at all. For example the three horizontal small fuses near the large 30 amp aren't called out at all on my list. I wrote the functions of those down in the lower right corner (SKREEM and ABS/CAB related). Some of the printing was getting light so I added the fuse values in ink pen (love that Southern description) before they go away completely. I then noticed what I thought was listed as 15A was actually 25A so it is corrected in the white blob.

It appears that the empty relay rail slot (for gray relays) in the picture below would be listed on the map as the "B" numbers on the right side of the fuse map if it is populated. Note the stamped "A" above the gray relays and faint "B" off the corner of the blue relay. Great labeling. The "A & B" appears to me to be more related to a specific relay position.

I post some of what I've learned here in case others may be foggy as I was, or perhaps people can add some more insight. I closed the thread to keep it on topic. FWIW. vic

My Fuse Map with some added notes.

FuseMap2wNotesCorrected.jpg

My Fuse Block #2.
Note: The Fuel Pump OEM relay is likely an 87 style relay. My FP relay is an 87a style. Either 87 or 87a will work there just fine. Although the Starter Relay looks similar by the case style it is a special high capacity large blade relay style (same pinout as an 87 relay). It is difficult to remove. Be careful not to break anything as you gently rock or lever it out.

023a2004FuseBlock2PicNotes1.jpg

A 2002 Relay Block example of what the relays under the seat look like. Too lazy, too cold right now for an actual picture of my 2004.

023a2002relayBlockPicNotes.jpg


A diagram from the book.

022FuseRelayBlocksUnderSeat.jpg

Another diagram from the book. Note: The red added info is for my very few options 2004. No power windows, no power locks, no remote mirrors. I have driver heated seat, A/C, booster heater, ... that's about it.

023a2003RelayBlockOrigScanBlkSmRedSmallest.jpg


Added General Info

Vehicle Operation Terminals
Terminal 30 = Positive 12 volt battery constant Eg. - radio memory, ATC. Heater Blower
Terminal 15 = Positive 12 volt ignition key on
Terminal D+ = Positive 12 volt engine running (alternator charging)

Expansion/Aftermarket Terminals
Body Manufacturer Terminal 30 = Positive 12 volt battery constant
Body Manufacturer Terminal 15 = Positive 12 volt ignition key on
Body Manufacturer Terminal D+ = Positive 12 volt engine running (alternator charging)
__________________
DAD NAS (N. Amer. Spec) 2004 140 2500 >330,000+ mi. Arctic Whitewash Brush-tone Grey
2006 Freightliner 140 2500HC >183,000+ mi. Arctic Whitewash (Spotted Snow Leopard accents)
"My opinion and worth everything you'll never pay for it." assumed.
Anyone can hold the helm when the sea is calm. Publilius Syrus
"There are only 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't." HaWiiLuVeR
16 ounces of unnecessary prevention can be worth a pound of manure.

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Old 01-22-2013, 08:07 PM   #2
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Default Re: Fuse Block #2 Fuse Map 2004

Some additional information that may help.

The two styles of relay for fuel and starter.

008PowerDistributionSmNotes.jpg

009PowerDistributionSmNotes.jpg

The smaller sized "Gray" relays.

007PowerDistributionSM.jpg

**************************
The Starter Relay is unique to the application. Even though it looks similar in case style to other relays there are no other T1N positions that can be swapped out. As an aside, the large blade relays are more common on the NCV3 models.

Starter Relay 2001 - 2007 Dodge Sprinter (verify application before ordering)
#5101505AB

Some other possible part numbers
(verify application before ordering)
05101505AB ; 05101505AA; 05103830AA; 05129614AA; 05129616AA; 05138902AA

https://www.amazon.com/HELLA-0077930...dp/B0068M2LYC/
(The bracket may need to be trimmed off.)

****
Hella 7793037 Relay, 70A, 12V SPST
Item #: 75360
Manufacturer Item: 7793037

Detail
Contact Action
SPST
Nominal Voltage
12V
Type/Series
Mini Relays
N.O. Amp = 70A
Terminals Required
Two 3/8", Two 1/4"
https://www.waytekwire.com/item/7536...-70A-12V-SPST/
****
H41510141has a new Hella part number of 007793041.
PRODUCT SPECIFICATIONS:
Hella Part No.:H41510141
New Hella Part No.:007793041
Nominal Voltage: 12V
Rated Continuous Load: N/O 70A at 85C
Ambient Temperature: -40C...+125C
Contact Form: 1 Form A / SPST N/O
Contact Material: AgSnO2
Operating / Drop out Voltage: ≤ 8.0 V / ≥ 1.3 V
Max.Coil Voltage: 16V
Coil Resistance: 100 Ohm 10% (excluding suppresive component)
Suppression: Resistor, 680 Ohm
Mechanical Cycles: 10,000,000
Operating / Releasing Time: ≤ 10 ms / ≤ 10 ms
Dielectric Strength: ≥ 1000 VDC
Max. Inrush Load: 200 A lamp load / 150 A motor load
Resistive Load / Switching Cycles: N/O 50 A, 100000 cycles
Inductive load / Switching Cycles: 150 A inrush / 50 A steady, 150000cycles
Lamp Load (capacitive) / Switching Cycles: 200 A inrush / 40 A steady, 150000 cycles
Vibration: 20 – 200 Hz, 50 m/s_, 6 h per axis
Mechanical Shock: 500 m/s_, 11 ms, period: 1 min, 1000 times
IP Rating: IP54 DIN IEC 60 529
Terminals: 85, 86: ISO 8092 6,3 x 0,8, CuZn, gal Sn; 30, 87: ISO 8092 9,5 x 1,2, E-Cu, gal Sn

***************************


I added some pen notes to my fuse map for future reminder. It's not really pretty, but should be effective.

023aFuseMapPennNotes.jpg
__________________
DAD NAS (N. Amer. Spec) 2004 140 2500 >330,000+ mi. Arctic Whitewash Brush-tone Grey
2006 Freightliner 140 2500HC >183,000+ mi. Arctic Whitewash (Spotted Snow Leopard accents)
"My opinion and worth everything you'll never pay for it." assumed.
Anyone can hold the helm when the sea is calm. Publilius Syrus
"There are only 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't." HaWiiLuVeR
16 ounces of unnecessary prevention can be worth a pound of manure.

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Old 02-01-2013, 06:58 AM   #3
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Default Re: Fuse Block #2 Fuse Map 2004



So if you remove the start relay lower RHS there is no way someone is going to steal your Sprinter even with the keys in hand FWIW
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Old 02-01-2013, 03:24 PM   #4
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Default Re: Fuse Block #2 Fuse Map 2004

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amboman View Post
...
So if you remove the start relay lower RHS there is no way someone is going to steal your Sprinter even with the keys in hand FWIW
Basically yes.

Given the history of the relay and fuse contact design having a tendency to become loose and intermittent I wouldn't recommend R & R of that or any other relay on regular basis.

I've thought about that a bit. My method would be to install a switch on the seat pedestal somewhere. That switch would interrupt the coil voltage to the Fuel Pump relay so that the pump wouldn't run. One could even mount a couple/three switches in the dash face switch blanks which need to be in specific postions to enable the fuel pump. Kinda like a combination thumbwheel.

As a non-commercial DIY anti-theft option the method has some advantages...

It is simple.

It is cheap.

It's unknown.

The vehicle will crank, but not start so if the thief did something to defeat the SKREEM module he (she?) would assume that the method failed.

Even if they had a real key most thieves are not very technically savvy. They will not take the time to troubleshoot a crank no-start. The idea is that they will move on to avoid being caught.

The method has some commercial potential, but it would take some extra modifications for it to be usable. The T1N market is shrinking so there's less opportunity for sales now.

Let's not take this thread too far off topic. You can start another thread if you wish. vic
__________________
DAD NAS (N. Amer. Spec) 2004 140 2500 >330,000+ mi. Arctic Whitewash Brush-tone Grey
2006 Freightliner 140 2500HC >183,000+ mi. Arctic Whitewash (Spotted Snow Leopard accents)
"My opinion and worth everything you'll never pay for it." assumed.
Anyone can hold the helm when the sea is calm. Publilius Syrus
"There are only 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't." HaWiiLuVeR
16 ounces of unnecessary prevention can be worth a pound of manure.

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Old 02-02-2013, 02:46 AM   #5
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Default Re: Fuse Block #2 Fuse Map 2004

Stuck on the road? Found a blown fuse? No spare?

Here's a list of some fuses which you might be able to steal to use temporarily. It is best to identify and correct the problem which caused the fuse to blow because you only have a few fuses to steal. This suggestion is based upon the information that I have available. It may not be is not 100% accurate for all T1N Sprinters.

Of course the best thing would be to carry an assortment of fuses. I found a large assortment box at Walmart for good price. It had most (not all) of the sizes used in my Sprinter.

From Fuse Block #1 FB #1 under the steering column position numbers.

#2 and #3 High Beam Headlamps 10 amp.

#8 Interior lighting, cigarette lighter, radio. 20 amp

#14 Fog lamp 15 amp

#15 Radio (terminal 15) 10 amp

Typical FB #1 Fuse Map


013FuseArrangementBlock1and TurnSignal.jpg

012FuseBlock#1wNotes.jpg

Added:
If a relay problem is suspected the "B", "M", or "W" relays can be swapped around to see if the problem follows a specific relay.

Fuse Block #2 FB #2 Under driver seat.
Refer to the FB #2 picture above.

#1 Plug Socket Driver Cabin 15 amp

#4 Booster Heater 25 amp

#7 Heater Booster (Ter 15) 10 amp

#8 Seat Heating 15 amp

Note: Any DRL fuse is likely a candidate to steal for 7.5 amp. Just use the stalk switch to turn on the headlamps.

The same "steal a part" method will work for relays. All that is needed is the information of what is used for what. FWIW. vic
__________________
DAD NAS (N. Amer. Spec) 2004 140 2500 >330,000+ mi. Arctic Whitewash Brush-tone Grey
2006 Freightliner 140 2500HC >183,000+ mi. Arctic Whitewash (Spotted Snow Leopard accents)
"My opinion and worth everything you'll never pay for it." assumed.
Anyone can hold the helm when the sea is calm. Publilius Syrus
"There are only 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't." HaWiiLuVeR
16 ounces of unnecessary prevention can be worth a pound of manure.

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Old 04-20-2013, 04:36 PM   #6
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Default Re: Fuse Block #2 Fuse Map 2004

Possible Relay Substitutes for NCV3 (and T1N start relay) Sprinters

2004 RelayswNotes.jpg


Function/position should be verified because it can vary vehicle to vehicle depending upon options ordered from the factory.

The information is a bit jumbled. Sorry, but I'm not inclined to do any more organization. Even just this information took some time to put together.

The information at this site indicates that even though the relay case/connection configuration may be similar, the contact ratings can vary. For example from 10 amps to 30 amps depending upon part number.

Bosch Relay Selection
http://bowery.com/maserati/home/file...h%20relays.pdf

A Hella Cross Reference
http://www.rallylights.com/hella/Hella_Relay_List.aspx
http://www.rallylights.com/hella/Relays.aspx

General Cross Reference
http://eedrs.com/resources/relay+cross+ref.pdf

Some General Configuration Info
http://www.polarbearinc.com/PBPC/hom...sch_Illus.html

Quote:
The Starter Relay is unique to the application. Even though it looks similar in case style to other relays there are no other [T1N] positions that can be swapped out.

Starter Relay 2001 - 2007 Dodge Sprinter (verify application before ordering)
#5101505AB

Some other possible part numbers
(verify application before ordering)
05101505AB ; 05101505AA; 05103830AA; 05129614AA; 05129616AA; 05138902AA
http://sprinter-source.com/forum/sho...060#post221060

General information: It appears that the starter relay in the T1N models is a one only position. In the NCV3 models it appears that the high amp relay is used in multiple (not all) positions.
**************************************
Misc. Relay Information (It is not as easy to identify suitable relay numbers as one would think. )

MB A0025427419
(High current large blades)

MB A0025427419
MOPAR 05101505AB
Desciption: RELAY

http://sprinter-source.com/forum/sho...3999#post53999

BOSCH 0332204151
http://www.autohausaz.com/search/pro...Fc1DMgodm0MA9Q

Relay # A0025422619
(Looks like a high current large blades relay by one eBay listing picture, Amazon, and smallfleetparts?)

Other Part Number: 05120360AA, 5120360AA
Manufacturer Part Number: 002 542 26 19
Interchange Part Number: A0025422619
Stock Code 05120360AA ; 05103552AA; 05120358AA; 05129608AA

http://www.smallfleetparts.com/Relay.../dp/B007JY6TZU
Reference #'s: 002 542 26 19 28 & 05120360AA

http://www.amazon.com/Relay-Multi-Fu.../dp/B007JY6TZU

More NCV3 specific information is here:
http://sprinter-source.com/forum/sho...893#post238893
__________________
DAD NAS (N. Amer. Spec) 2004 140 2500 >330,000+ mi. Arctic Whitewash Brush-tone Grey
2006 Freightliner 140 2500HC >183,000+ mi. Arctic Whitewash (Spotted Snow Leopard accents)
"My opinion and worth everything you'll never pay for it." assumed.
Anyone can hold the helm when the sea is calm. Publilius Syrus
"There are only 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't." HaWiiLuVeR
16 ounces of unnecessary prevention can be worth a pound of manure.

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Old 01-16-2014, 12:01 PM   #7
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Default Re: Fuse Block #2 Fuse Map 2004

You may possibly find a component in the relay rack under the seat which is not identified.

SprinterAuxPumpDiode.JPG

It is the Aux Electric Coolant Pump Diode. I believe that it is used as a polarity blocking diode related to multiple controls operating the electric coolant pump. (Possibly related to the REST function when the Booster or Aux Diesel Heater option is included. It is not for the REST and Booster Heater only option, the ATC module does all the control - Aux Elec Coolant Pump.) I don't recall seeing a diode on my 2004 with REST and a Booster Heater, but I'll double-check for it next time I'm in there.

Edit: I was into the driver seat electrics the other day to check for transmission fluid on the TCM connector. Fortunately that was OK. I did look for a diode as shown the picture I posted. My 2004 with REST and Booster Heater has no diode which I could see. The ATC controls the coolant pump.

8W42-09 wNotesRev1.jpg

vic
__________________
DAD NAS (N. Amer. Spec) 2004 140 2500 >330,000+ mi. Arctic Whitewash Brush-tone Grey
2006 Freightliner 140 2500HC >183,000+ mi. Arctic Whitewash (Spotted Snow Leopard accents)
"My opinion and worth everything you'll never pay for it." assumed.
Anyone can hold the helm when the sea is calm. Publilius Syrus
"There are only 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't." HaWiiLuVeR
16 ounces of unnecessary prevention can be worth a pound of manure.

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Old 07-18-2014, 06:45 PM   #8
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Default Re: Fuse Block #2 Fuse Map 2004

Some more information related to the gray Micro ISO relays under the steering column and under the driver seat.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aqua Puttana View Post
Don't be fooled by K-9 [with Blinker Fluid]. This is the real solution.

RelayWiggleHole (1).jpg

The billet aluminum Relay Wiggle Finger Hole.

**********************
Edit: My final solution was to trace and repair a bad solder connection. Details are here:
http://sprinter-source.com/forum/sho...375#post374375
**********************


I'm sorry to admit that my turn signals still go wonky once in while even after trying quite a few different repairs/adjustments to the FB #1 and cleaning the TS relay.

Edit: As general information. I've noticed that before the turn signals fail completely the relay often starts doing what I would describe as a stutter click. When I do notice the stutter click a relay wiggle usually avoids any problem. As Chris118 mentions, a relay wiggle can last for months, weeks, days, a minute. The good news is that so far the wiggle does restore operation reliably.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chris118 View Post
been wiggling the signal relay in my van for about 4 years...
sometimes it'll go for a few months, sometimes a few hours.
nice to know its such a cheap fix.


My next attempt will be a new turn signal relay itself. This Amazon order add-on relay looks good.

http://www.amazon.com/HELLA-H4152402...keywords=relay

I'm certain it is a replacement for the "B" flasher relay. It is interesting to note that in the Amazon diagrams to the left, the center blade #4 87a is shown as a reduced down blade size. That is exactly what the OEM MB A004 545 29 05 - also marked 677.10 - flasher relay I have looks like.

"Micro 10/20 Amp SPDT Relay (single)". The 87 3 - 5 pin N.O. contact is rated 20 amp. The 87a 3 - 4 pin N.C. contact is rated 10 amp.

20140718 Edit: Box information for the Amazon relay is:

Made in China
Hella w/logos
H41524021
SKU 60687 87416
BN=939862

The relay is working fine in my turn signal position.

It is probably worth adding this relay to your next free shipping total Amazon order. There is likely a fairly large bank of those gray relays under your seat depending upon how many options your Sprinter has. Having an inexpensive spare may save some delays and expense if a relay ever fails.


023a2002relayBlockPicNotes.jpg



Here's some others Amazon says won't fit my 2004. I think that Amazon is wrong. They are more expensive anyway. Maybe they will be your only choice at a local parts store though.

http://www.amazon.com/Standard-Motor...keywords=relay
http://www.amazon.com/ACDelco-F1757-...keywords=relay

If a new relay fails to cure the problem then even I may be forced to replace the FB #1.

Nah. That would take money and effort. I'll probably just keep wigglin' the relay.

http://sprinter-source.com/forum/sho...132#post278132

vic
87a Relay

https://www.amazon.com/HELLA-9316800.../dp/B004KEL4LG
__________________
DAD NAS (N. Amer. Spec) 2004 140 2500 >330,000+ mi. Arctic Whitewash Brush-tone Grey
2006 Freightliner 140 2500HC >183,000+ mi. Arctic Whitewash (Spotted Snow Leopard accents)
"My opinion and worth everything you'll never pay for it." assumed.
Anyone can hold the helm when the sea is calm. Publilius Syrus
"There are only 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't." HaWiiLuVeR
16 ounces of unnecessary prevention can be worth a pound of manure.

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Old 12-06-2016, 02:44 PM   #9
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Default Re: Fuse Block Fuse Maps 2004

Might as well add the NAS aka NAFTA Power Distribution Center PDC here.

011MIDIfusesOffBattery.jpg

More information is here.

http://www.sprinter-source.com/forum...479#post106479

vic

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aqua Puttana View Post
As nobody has answered...

Local auto parts stores are unlikely to stock them. I bought a couple at the local Dodge dealership. I would expect any MB dealership should stock them.

These will likely work. The tab holes may need some custom alteration using a rat tail file.

https://www.amazon.com/Blue-Sea-Syst.../dp/B004ZJ0VTM

Blue Sea Systems AMI/ MIDI Fuses (2 per pkg.)
Attachment 90523

Some additional info is here.

https://sprinter-source.com/forum/sh...112#post101112

vic
__________________
DAD NAS (N. Amer. Spec) 2004 140 2500 >330,000+ mi. Arctic Whitewash Brush-tone Grey
2006 Freightliner 140 2500HC >183,000+ mi. Arctic Whitewash (Spotted Snow Leopard accents)
"My opinion and worth everything you'll never pay for it." assumed.
Anyone can hold the helm when the sea is calm. Publilius Syrus
"There are only 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't." HaWiiLuVeR
16 ounces of unnecessary prevention can be worth a pound of manure.

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Old 04-27-2017, 12:02 AM   #10
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Default Re: Fuse Block #2 Fuse Map 2004

From another thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aqua Puttana View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by autostaretx View Post
...
If you do NOT have DRL, the headlamps are powered through switches and multiple fuses (in series), but no relays are involved.

--dick
You learn something new every day.

My fairly well optioned 2006 passenger 2500 has fewer gray relays than my more basic 2004 cargo 2500. DRL's 2004. No DRL's 2006.

2004Fuse#2.jpg

2006Fuse#2.jpg

Added:
The 2006 "EDW" gray relays have something to do with the security system.

Quote:
Originally Posted by glasseye View Post
Just happened to me again. Both low beams failed within 24 hrs. Replaced as a pair 12K miles ago.
So the lesson is replace as needed and keep a spare? Otherwise the stage is set for similar service life on both sides.

vic
__________________
DAD NAS (N. Amer. Spec) 2004 140 2500 >330,000+ mi. Arctic Whitewash Brush-tone Grey
2006 Freightliner 140 2500HC >183,000+ mi. Arctic Whitewash (Spotted Snow Leopard accents)
"My opinion and worth everything you'll never pay for it." assumed.
Anyone can hold the helm when the sea is calm. Publilius Syrus
"There are only 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't." HaWiiLuVeR
16 ounces of unnecessary prevention can be worth a pound of manure.

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