Wanting to check splines on drive axles on 2008 NCV3 2500

I would like to check the splines on my 2008 NCV3 2500 170" W.B. Sprinter (54k miles) to see if their is any excessive wear that would cause slop at these interfaces (@ the wheel hub on driver and passenger sides).

Looking for step by step instructions (preferably from the M.B or Dodge-cedes shop manual) on how to do this.

I don't think I have to open up the differential housing but not sure - hopefully not.

If anyone has the shop manual on this I would greatly appreciate it.

eralimited57 said:

I would like to check the splines on my 2008 NCV3 2500 170" W.B. Sprinter (54k miles) to see if their is any excessive wear that would cause slop at these interfaces (@ the wheel hub on driver and passenger sides).

Looking for step by step instructions (preferably from the M.B or Dodge-cedes shop manual) on how to do this.

I don't think I have to open up the differential housing but not sure - hopefully not.

If anyone has the shop manual on this I would greatly appreciate it.

Click to expand...

Hmmm coincidence we are about to tear one open, in short it came in on the hook.
Put it in gear, its not going anywhere and it has the growler syndrome from the drivers side! (An instant clue my dear Watsons)

Raising the joke/workshop humor a bit --Hey what breed of dog is in there, bearing its teeth-or rather ripping its teeth out! Rev the engine a bit does it growl some more like a witches coven?

Two distinct areas you should be looking at, to determine a fix, or perhaps in your case observe more issues in the making!

To extract the hub assy on a 2500 its a simple wrenching exercise.
Its just nuts & bolts really! So-
Wheel off, disc rotor off with caliper, remove the parking brake assy disconnecting the cable.
ABS connector out & hung up
Set it all aside and hang the caliper up on say a coat hanger.

Observe a ring of bolts securing the hub to the axle tube, and its a simple job to remove them. Then with a copper mallet thump/whack the hub off the axle tube register and the shaft should come out with it.
At that point you can check the slop and wear on the spines at both ends.
If you need a new shaft and bearing assy (only available as a one piece) they cost $610 & $650 depending upon which side is found worn.

Beware of seals if you change any they have been updated no fewer than 8 times. a dealer is the best option for that stuff!

Now a lot of slop can be attributed to the differential spider & gears inside the differential itself.
So, "Our" next step will be to remove the rear cover catching the waste oil.
Then roll/rotate the differential assy around until you observe the tips of the spider sat in the differential case. You will also be able to observe the actual differential gears inside the housing judging wear..
Often I see the spider pin(s) have worn or rather wallowed out the housing giving the drive line a distinct take up slop. This will eventually sheer in service and then its a tow hook job!

To remedy that you will need whole new differential sub assy or toss in a complete exchange axle at about $4500. (if you opt for new).

That essentially is one of our shop tasks today with this rig!
Open it all up and determine a fix. Essentially an axle shaft sub set at $610 plus labor, OR a new/replacement axle assy!
Remember its only money!
All the best
Dennis

Thank you Dennis for taking the time to reply in detail.

What is the torque on the bolts that secure the hub to the axle tube?

What is the model year, size and miles on the van you are going to take a look at?

Please let me know what you find.

Lee

well I took everything apart right down to where you're supposed to be able to pull the axle and hub out and unfortunately I couldn't get it out I rapped on it wrapped on it some more put some liquid wrench around the joint still couldn't get it out.

And you took the E14 socket torq head bolts out securing the hub to the axle?
10X1 mm size bolt?
Dennis

lindenengineering said:

And you took the E14 socket torq head bolts out securing the hub to the axle?
10X1 mm size bolt?
Dennis

Click to expand...

Dennis,

Yes, I certainly did remove the four torx head bolts that hold the hub to the axle (on the backside / inside). brake pads off, wear sensor off, brake shoes/springs off, caliper off, caliper frame off etc.

I rapped on the hub from several different directions even from behind in the area where the dust shield is absent (forward side) and it wouldn't budge. I finally just put it all back

Never did the task on the Sprinter..........but........curious so went to YouTube.

YouTube video with a language issue but they appear to get the job done:

https://youtu.be/TW0c86_UeO0



Agree.......YouTube can have really good info and really really bad info.......so precaution is required.

Yes the mechanical techniques are correct --BUT !!!
I use a copper mallet as to not mar precise faces, avoid then a 5lb steel lump hammer.
Then OMG watching it !!! Effing amateurs!!

Observe vulnerable anatomy, like legs under a raised vehicles without wheels on it even with stands !~
Do NOT copy that physical posture in any way whatsoever .
As I mentioned this once to an Iraqi!
" Ali if you put your head in the lion's mouth too often it will bite your head off" !
Safety first at all times !!

One of the reasons why employ Mexicans trained techs--They get it! Copper mallet 'n all!
Scary, & I am thinking of my shop safety record and workmans comp premiums at the moment .
Dennis

Yeah I watched that video, scary. Looks like a couple of Russians, ha. I noticed the guy puts his foot right under the wheel hub. I'm thinking wow if this thing comes down he's going to have one chopped off foot or at the very least a severely smashed foot. And yes, the steel hammer I noticed that as well, not good.

It's interesting how the older guy is giving the younger guy all kinds of directions and instructions it seems and yet he doesn't tell the guy to get his foot out from underneath the wheel hub.

Like I said.......... all YouTube info must be viewed with precautions.

Must fall under ........safety is sissies.

In any case the torque on the hub torq head bolts is 72 nm & the caliper bridge bar bolts are 80nm plus 30 degrees angle tightening.

I normally replace them as one time use and also apply a spot of blue loctite to the the threads.
Dennis

Dennis,

So what did you find on the sprinter that you inspected?

What is the model year, chassis, length? How many miles are on it? Did they pull anything with it?

Thanks

Well I found what I expected , splines torn out of the hub assy, hence the growling racket & no drive.
This van is a 2008 2500 LWB Sprinter with 283,000 miles on it.
The failure took place up in the mountains and as towed in.
I suspect wheel slip on ice patches was the "coup de grace", for an already worn spline situation.

In short the drive shaft or half shaft is harder than the hub splines so wear is accentuated on the hub not the shaft.
As a side bar the parking brake shoes were heavily corroded and the hardware found virtually scrap due to it being driven at sometime in its past with the parking brake applied.

In short corrosion attack abound and even the back plate spring slot eaten away by rust.
Consequently I replaced the back plate being the worst of the two.. Its worth noting that these plates are ambidextrous so can can install then in reverse and then have trouble getting shoe stabilizer springs to fit . (cheap @ about $20 per side)

I got the diff cover torn off and inspected the differential guts , everything checked out as "good". A new gasket and cover cleaned up and it went back on.

Pretty straightforward job and the only non wrenching thing to do was clean out the old grease and debris extending inwards for about 10 inches from the damaged hub, coating the inside of the axle tube.
I used flat bar and scraped out the debris,grease deposits then gave it a "whoosh" with brake cleaner, finally using the shop rag and very long nosed pliers with the rag balled up to give it all a nice finish inside ready to accept the new shaft & bearing assy I ordered from our MB parts suppliers.
The job is pretty straightforward really and no different than most live axle set ups, & well within anyone's DIY capability if you are handy with tools.

I did all of the ACTUAL diagnosis & replacement axle work and one of my Mexican techs did most of the donkey work; all the time discussing Mexican Spanish street talk expressions, culture and regional dialects. Both activities were very entertaining.

Again the REAL issue is stands, jacks and follow safety procedures with a van and no wheels.
On that score no joking allowed.
All the best
Dennis

lindenengineering said:

Well I found what I expected , splines torn out of the hub assy, hence the growling racket & no drive.
This van is a 2008 2500 LWB Sprinter with 283,000 miles on it.
The failure took place up in the mountains and as towed in.
I suspect wheel slip on ice patches was the "coup de grace", for an already worn spline situation.

In short the drive shaft or half shaft is harder than the hub splines so wear is accentuated on the hub not the shaft.
As a side bar the parking brake shoes were heavily corroded and the hardware found virtually scrap due to it being driven at sometime in its past with the parking brake applied.

In short corrosion attack abound and even the back plate spring slot eaten away by rust.
Consequently I replaced the back plate being the worst of the two.. Its worth noting that these plates are ambidextrous so can can install then in reverse and then have trouble getting shoe stabilizer springs to fit . (cheap @ about $20 per side)

I got the diff cover torn off and inspected the differential guts , everything checked out as "good". A new gasket and cover cleaned up and it went back on.

Click to expand...

Any maintenance recommendations you are inclined to make to help one try to avoid this happenstance? (Aside from not driving with the parking brake applied.)

No not really!
I suppose refrain from jackrabbit starts and full power take off around tight turns from a stop.
but then you will get comments like "Hey you are driving like a granddad -Dad!"

Or if on the other hand you drive in Spirited Sprinter fashion --You get "You mad old bastard!"
Can't win!
Cheers Dennis

I wonder if you could get the shaft ends cryo-treated or some other process to strengthen them.

Gabe Athouse said:

I wonder if you could get the shaft ends cryo-treated or some other process to strengthen them.

Click to expand...

Well they are already treated and durable enough to make the hub splines sacrificial.
The displaced shaft was in good enough condition to use again --tongue in cheek I suppose !
It with the hub went into the scrap bin .
MB sells the shaft and hub as a matched pair, this is what we installed .
Dennis

Dennis, what did you end up charging parts and labor for this job. I assume you did driver and passenger side axles, hubs and bolts. Did you use brand new Mercedes Benz parts or?

lindenengineering said:

Well they are already treated and durable enough to make the hub splines sacrificial.
The displaced shaft was in good enough condition to use again --tongue in cheek I suppose !
It with the hub went into the scrap bin .
MB sells the shaft and hub as a matched pair, this is what we installed .
Dennis

Click to expand...

Oh well why the hell do they do that?! I was under the impression it was the pumpkin end shaft splines that fail. Why would you need splines on the hub end at all if it’s not to be able to replace just the hub? Could it be welded in an “emergency”?

Emergency: something we do because we can in order to save time and money because we are cheap.

Gabe Athouse said:

Oh well why the hell do they do that?! I was under the impression it was the pumpkin end shaft splines that fail. Why would you need splines on the hub end at all if it’s not to be able to replace just the hub? Could it be welded in an “emergency”?

Emergency: something we do because we can in order to save time and money because we are cheap.

Click to expand...

Mr Gabe Athouse a curious post--Pumpkin? pumpkin? that's a fruit or is it a vegetable? BUT upon refection I suppose you mean the differential unit, am I correct in that assumption? A curious description by itself!

Now if you had followed previous posts you will no doubt read not something like "Not unlike other axle arrangements " .which means that the hub assy is a self contained unit being pre- packed with grease and sealed up.

Now our customer had at some stage in the past driven the van with the parking brakes applied which destroyed them. That destruction is caused by friction and friction need i mention it, causes heat, which made the hub sitting right beside it, glow in the dark causing contingent damage by baking the grease out of the hub and burning up the seals.

Now with that looming situation it doesn't take long to cause partial seizure of the internal radial bearing within the hub and it either seized or collapses. In this case hub seizure tore out the internal splines resulting in loss of drive.

Now to mention your ides of welding the shaft to the hub!! .
Welding created intense heat and whatever grease was left in the hub it would have vaporized away leaving it dry. Hardly something to put back in service!
I suppose at a pinch if you ignored the propensity of getting the hub and shaft to run concentrically thereby appalling excessive out of plane force to the differential gears then it might work as a what I would call a field fix , but hardly something permanent, even with some grease packed in the hub!

Now I have to confess I have got someone to weld teeth on a differential ring gear in Kandahar and driven a van to Tehran for a full factory repair!
I have even spent a week filing to fit a gash SAVA Mercedes hub to install on a 42 tonne Leyland truck and trailer in near Bucharest so that I could get it to Istanbul where I could fly in some parts from the UK.
And although was congratulating myself as I was scudding along the edge of the Marmara this was hardly a permanent fix!

Which brings me to the parts situation in the USA. With abundant cheap parts readily available and with dollars to buy them even with a credit card its quite simple to purchase the correct parts and fix it "right" !
Americans have never had it so good!

I think your post would be nicely received by my friend Mahmoud editor or the AJ Times in Jalalabad.

Published in the joke section of the Aj times I am sure there would letters to the editor like Good God man this fellow is American comedian!
But I wouldn't allow him to fix my son's donkey cart!
God in heaven !
In Pashto
ښه خدایه سړی دا ملګری امریکایی کامیډین دی!
مګر زه به هغه ته اجازه ورنکړم چې زما د زوی خره ګا cartه سمه کړي!
خدای په جنت کې!

Dennis