Greta Van Blau- '16 144 low roof 4x4 project.

OffroadHamster

Well-known member
My wife and I have been all over the map, both figuratively and literally in our quest for adventure. Once we had our first child, adventure changed and became less....relaxing. A 4x4 truck and a tent suddenly resulted in numerous camping trips cut short. We started talking about RV's, Camper shells, slide in campers and vans. We purchased a 4x4 high top E350 diesel van and began exploring in that. It was not the right vehicle. From a comfort and safety perspective it just didn't fit the bill.

I started looking at the Sprinter 4x4 and the Ford transit with a Quigley conversion. I like the 4x4 system on the transit much more than the sprinter's. I also like the fact that you are never more than about 100 miles from someone who can fix a Ford in a pinch. And then I drove a transit van...give me a break. I have an F150 with the 2.7L ecoboost. The truck drives great and has TONS of pick-up-and-go even with 34" AT's. I was expecting the transit to be a rocket with the 3.5 ecoboost. The transmission could never find the right gear, it had significantly less power than I was anticipating and it felt like it was going to fall over in corners. While the front cockpit was nicer, and the seats were an order of magnitude more comfortable than the Sprinter's I just couldn't do it. The transit felt poorly rendered. Incomplete if you will.

We went back and forth between a high top which we would build a double platform modular bed system into the back of and a low roof with a CCV pop top. My wife grew up camping in tent trailers and the pop top scratched a serious itch for her. I had a deposit on a May build 144 crew and yesterday I found a Passenger with everything I wanted in it and importantly didn't have the rear AC package. We pulled the trigger.

2016 Passenger 4x4 in Blue Gray:
Comfort, efficency and active safety packages. Low range and DSR. Aux Battery. Alarm and roof rails (could have done without these). Trailer hitch package. Premium appearance package (could have done without the $800 alloy wheels I will be getting rid of)

Plans are
CCV Top
Insulation
rear galley and cassette toilette.
Rear platform bed.
Solar, water and heat (hot water and hot air)
Rear outdoor shower
4x4 goodies (as many as I can convince my wife we "need") Tires, bumpers, nerf bars....
Awning

I will have CCV install the top but will do the rest of the work myself.

 
Wow great find!
I am in the same boat, 4x4 144 low roof passenger on order. Two months in and I still don't have a build date! If I find something that checks enough of the boxes I'm going to pull the trigger.
If you don't mind sharing, where are you located and what resources did you use to find your new van?
Congrats and I look forward to following you build!

Niel
 
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NevadaBlue

Member
She's a beauty. I too considered the transit but couldn't deal with the delivery situation with the Quigley conversion. After reading your experience with one, I am glad I decided on the Sprinter.
 

Desertbound

Active member
Nice score. Love that color. Excited to see how you like the CCV top. I'm tempted to get one installed on my low roof too.

-Rob
 

OffroadHamster

Well-known member
Wow great find!
I am in the same boat, 4x4 144 low roof passenger on order. Two months in and I still don't have a build date! If I find something that checks enough of the boxes I'm going to pull the trigger.
If you don't mind sharing, where are you located and what resources did you use to find your new van?
Congrats and I look forward to following you build!

Niel
Im in Southern California, sorry I abbreviated So Cal in my first post. Force of habbit. I just started calling dealerships. I found that the dealers were not listing the 4x4's on their sites. I actually got a line on this van from a builder (Corey at Cardiff Campervans www.cacampervan.com)

She's a beauty. I too considered the transit but couldn't deal with the delivery situation with the Quigley conversion. After reading your experience with one, I am glad I decided on the Sprinter.
The transit just does not compare. Its like driving an econobox commercial box van, whereas the mercedes is like driving a luxury commercial box can. I know that sounds obvious but looking at them and their interiors you wouldnt think there would be such a stark difference.

Nice score. Love that color. Excited to see how you like the CCV top. I'm tempted to get one installed on my low roof too.

-Rob
I will document everything on this thread.

Does anyone know what the hell this is? There is one in the front, one in the back and one with the overhead map lights. They look like little tiny speakers but I cant hear anything coming out of them.



Also I am selling a 4 passenger Bench seat if anyone is interested. I will throw it up on the classifieds as well

 

Sprinter SS

Well-known member
Congrats on your new va.
The device on the ceiling that has the little circles is a part of your Optional alarm motion sensors. Check out your option sheet.
 

DieselFumes

2015 4x4 2500 170 Crew
Does anyone know what the hell this is? There is one in the front, one in the back and one with the overhead map lights. They look like little tiny speakers but I cant hear anything coming out of them.

Congratulations. You have an optional alarm system on your van.

Only problem with it is if you use the key fob to lock the van while you're sleeping in it overnight, the sensors will make the alarm go off when they detect you moving around in the van. The solution is pretty simple - electrical tape. We wrote about it here.
 

OffroadHamster

Well-known member
Thanks. I wont re-install the rear two. And i may just disconnect the two next to the map lights.

Yanked all the interior out over the weekend. A little time consuming even with trim tools. I broke a couple clips. I think I will probably re-use the headliner since it is such a clean fit. Working on converting the overhead lights to something more function (LED) and wiring them to the AUX battery and a switch rather than wherever the hell they are wired now. THe only stay on for 5-10 minutes at the moment.
 

ptheland

2013 144" low top Passgr
Thanks. I wont re-install the rear two. And i may just disconnect the two next to the map lights.
You may want to see how the van functions with those sensors disconnected. With all the computer controls in a new (or new-ish) Sprinter, there's a decent chance you'll get a bunch of error messages with the motion detectors disconnected.

I'd test things out now so you can keep some options open in case there are undesirable side effects from removing the motion detectors.
 

jme3505

2019 Gas Transit
2016 Passenger 4x4 in Blue Gray:
Comfort, efficency and active safety packages. Low range and DSR. Aux Battery. Alarm and roof rails (could have done without these). Trailer hitch package. Premium appearance package (could have done without the $800 alloy wheels I will be getting rid of)
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I would be interested in your rims if you want to sell. PM me.
Jon
 

OffroadHamster

Well-known member
I would be interested in your rims if you want to sell. PM me.
Jon
My plan is to sell the wheels and tires together. Shipping would make this cost prohibitive. If I change my mind I will reach out and see if you are still interested.

Van has a SERIOUS shortcoming....the roadrunner mounted under the hood. Got to solving it this evening with an integrated airhorn.

Its not so much that I cant wait to try it....more I am less concerned about the next time I need it.






Ordered a lot of my electrical and insulation. I am leaving the vactory AUX battery under the hood and adding a separate bank two of 6v 220A AGM's under the van for a total of 320A. I like the RB components battery tray but not the mismatch with the ignition battery that results.

I will have a battery switch to switch between the two banks. I am using a dual battery solar charger that will charge the 2nd bank I am adding as well as tender the factory Aux battery that likely will not get a proper charge from the alternator alone. I am also building in a cutover switch that will enable me to charge the 2nd bank off of the alternator in the rare event that I plow through the three batteries and the solar is not keeping up. I never plan on using it but like many engineers I suffer from design overkill.

Solar will be 2 100W Renogy Panels.

For Insulation I sucked it up and ordered a bunch of thinsulate and some foil faced epdm closed cell foam. I am going to blanket the floor of the cab area in a dynamat type material and sporadically apply it too any large panels that ring when knocked on.

I have not settled on what I am going to do about the floor. I am only 5'7" and as such I can just about stand in the Van with the factory headliner. I dont want to loose another inch to flooring and insulation but in my somewhat limited vanning experience a well insulated floor is nice to have.
 

OffroadHamster

Well-known member
Well...after waffling over tops I put a deposit on a CCV top that will be going on in the middle of June and I will be picking it up July 7th if all goes according to plan. Opted for the arctic insulation, paint match and the maxxair fan.

I know there is some bad press out there for CCV, but after thoroughly reading through all of it and after seeing countless SMB top failures I decided that CCV was my choice. The anger and vitriol of the couple of people who have had deep problems with CCV doesn't represent how I would handle such problems nor would I enumerate them on the web before I resolved the issue to my satisfaction. I think a lot of people have a very low tolerance for disappointment and stress and when something doesn't go right their knee jerk reaction is to spew their anger all over the web.

Mostly my choice is tied to my sensibilities as an engineer. I have a fundamental problem with removing all of the hoop supports and cutting out everything behind the B-pillar in a vehicle my family will be traveling in. It bothers me in the same way that people bolt aftermarket seats directly to the sheet metal with only a large washer behind it. A 100lb chair with a 150lb person can develop 7-10,000lbs of force in an accident. Now ask me what the tear out force of a 2" washer through 20ga sheet metal is. My decision has more to do with engineering fundamentals than brand perception and other peoples experience.

As for current progress..... I finished with all of the thinsulate. A couple of tips for anyone new to working with this stuff

1: Dont unroll it until you are ready to cut. It cuts very nicely before it has lofted. After it lofts up its kind of a pain. Keep it rolled when you are not cutting it.
2: Lightly "score" it on the unskinned side with a sharp razor knife. Draw the knife at as low of an angle as possible to prevent the tip of the blade from catching the insulation. This gives a nice line to follow with...
3: A pair of high quality fabric shears! Dont use those crappy ones in your tool box.
4: when pulling insulation through the B C and D pillars run some string through a socket and tie it off so that when you hang the socket from the string it is parallel to the ground. Drop the socket on the string down the pillar and poke a small hole in the strip of insulation. Poke the socket through and then twist it so that it acts as an anchor or grappling hook. This prevents the socket from pulling out half way up the pillar and allows you to really stuff a nice thick piece of insulation in the pillars and still be able to pull it through. I tried using a flexible snake to push insulation through and its a huge PITA. Pulling is the way to go.
5: I used aluminum tape to tape any seams in the insulation so there would be no air gap. Probably unnecessary but will also help keep the insulation from shifting away from neighboring pieces if the contact adhesive ever starts to fail.

A couple of pics (and yes I did cut one ceiling panel too wide. Im not fixing it!)





Up next is the sub floor and insulation (including a heavy application of butyl sound deadener), radiant barrier and ceiling lights.

Also need to get to removing factory roof rails for the CCV top.
 

OffroadHamster

Well-known member
Installed low-e foil faced CCF insulation last night on the ceiling, over the cab, under the factory floor mats in the cab area and behind the slider door panel and adjacent trim panel, both of which I will be retaining. The rear half of the van will get plywood paneling below the windows.

I picked up a couple of sheets of okoume 1/2" plywood for the floors and a couple of 3/4" sheets for my cabinets. If you have never worked with it its fantastic. It is light, extremely flat and stable and stands the test of time. It mills easily for cabinet work (dado joints etc), takes stain nicely if you want wood finished cabinets and even paints well.

I also started running my electrical. I ran the solar lines last night and some of the wiring for my lighting. I have to one more run for lighting, a run for the refrigerator, one for the Espar D2 and one for the D5S. I currently have no plans for a 115V system, however I am going to run some 2-0 ga to the back in case I ever decide to add an inverter.

Speaking of which I changed my mind on my battery bank. I am going to run a second Aux battery (matched to the OEM aux) under the passenger seat which will be dual charged by the solar and alternator. If in the future i decide i need more amps (say after adding an inverter because my wife wants to use a hair dryer or I want to use an electric kettle) I will add two GC2's under the floor on the passenger side. I will be installing the appropriate switches to enable this potential future expansion.

For the floor I have decided to butyl mat most of the floor, lay down a layer of Low-E CCF and then bolt the plywood floor straight over it. My finished floor will be loose lay vinyl plank flooring. It has a soft-ish touch, is durable, waterproof and looks great. Its also easy to replace damaged pieces.
 

NevadaBlue

Member
Thanks for the 'naked' pictures. Grin... Those shots of the interior without panels are excellent reference photos.
 

OffroadHamster

Well-known member
Thanks for the 'naked' pictures. Grin... Those shots of the interior without panels are excellent reference photos.
I have others if there is something specific you are looking for.

My Electrical layout (sans loads). There will be one more switch not shown disconnecting the solar from the batteries.
 

OffroadHamster

Well-known member
Finished installing subfloor and insulation.
The overhang on the step will get boxed in to give more room to maneuver around the middle row seat when installed and provide a small cubby for storage.



Also mounted solar charge monitor and installed rear recessed lighting. Lights will be controlled by a dimmer switch located on the passenger side C pillar (so it can be reached with the door open or from the dinette/lower bed.

 

Dave D

Active member
Mostly my choice is tied to my sensibilities as an engineer. I have a fundamental problem with removing all of the hoop supports and cutting out everything behind the B-pillar in a vehicle my family will be traveling in.


Hi O.R.Ham,
We've got similar tastes; I've got a 4x4 passenger van with the SMB poptop that I'm doing my own buildout with. I'm sure your CCV top will be great, and I'll be following your thread.

The issue of which poptop may be stronger led me in the opposite direction then you though. As far as I know the SMB is the only top crush tested and certified by Mercedes (it tested stronger then the stock top) and SMB is the only installer in the US that Mercedes has certified through their Master Upfitter Program to cut a huge hole in the roof and install a poptop. Thats a nice reassurance in my mind, for both safety and insurance if the roof ever becomes a crumple zone.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

OffroadHamster

Well-known member
Hi O.R.Ham,
We've got similar tastes; I've got a 4x4 passenger van with the SMB poptop that I'm doing my own buildout with. I'm sure your CCV top will be great, and I'll be following your thread.

The issue of which poptop may be stronger led me in the opposite direction then you though. As far as I know the SMB is the only top crush tested and certified by Mercedes (it tested stronger then the stock top) and SMB is the only installer in the US that Mercedes has certified through their Master Upfitter Program to cut a huge hole in the roof and install a poptop. Thats a nice reassurance in my mind, for both safety and insurance if the roof ever becomes a crumple zone.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Hey Dave, do you have a build thread going? Would love to follow along.

Everyone has their preferences and risk tolerances in various categories. I looked at the FMVSS associated with the roof crush test. As a mechanical engineer I found the application of the standard meaningless in a dynamic situation like a crash. Applying a static force to the corner of the roof tells me nothing. In reality I would not want to be in a vehicle with either top (or any van or any vehicle for that matter) where forces are present that would test the structural integrity. The amount of force applied to the roof in the crush test is laughable. Large vans are exempt from FMVSS 208 which is a much more comprehensive occupant crash protection standard.

216 Calls for a force of 1.5 times the vehicles UNLADEN weight to be applied to the roof. If you load the van up with a camper build out and the roll if over in a crash you are going to see forces potentially equaling 10-20 times the vehicles unladen weight.

My problem with FMVSS's are they are not well grounded in simple physics. Take the LATCH system (lower anchors and tethers for children). They are the little bars that car seats click into.

The standard specifies the anchoring of the bars, and how the structure the bars are anchored to attaches to the structure of the vehicle. However the design of the system is fatally flawed.

The diameter of the bars is insufficient to handle the forces they see. I have a diono car seat that weights 42 lbs. My daughter weighs 25lbs currently and will probably be around 50lbs before she is out of that particular seat. Acceleration forces in an accident can reach 50g. Even with high strength steel like a normalized 4340 (tensile of 160ksi) you are exceeding the strength of those bars by quite a bit. Mind you the specification for how they are anchored is adequate. But that is meaningless if the bars themselves deform allowing the seat to become loose.

The roof crush test is similarly meaningless IMHO. I would rather have the rollover structure between the B, C and D pillar intact. Its hard to build hoop strength back into a roof after you have cut it and the roof crush does not really test the hoop strength of the vehicle.

All this to say screw being in either vehicle in a rollover. Screw being in any van or commercial vehicle that isnt subjected to the stricter 208 standard. Really, screw being in ANY vehicle in a rollover accident. I did it once, i hope to never repeat!!!

:cheers:
 

Dave D

Active member
Sounds like you've done your homework on crash tests. I don't have a build thread going, just some posts. Between work and trying to actually get out and use the van, the build out is not going that fast, but maybe I'll start one after some more progress.

As you mentioned, there are many reasons not to charge the house and starter battery banks from the same alternator with a simple relay. There are several alternatives to this; I installed dual 220s in the RB dual batt tray under the hood and 2nd alternator with smart regulator to charge them. I left the stock paralleling relay in place with a momentary push button to activate so I can jump the starter bank from the drivers seat in an emergency. A few other highlight of my build so far; 2000w inverter installed, replaced the rear bench seat with an Explorer Vans leather electric tri-fold bench seat that powers forward and back and into a bed, AMP electric step, L-Track is mounted above and below the rear windows, Lagun table pedestal on the swiveling passenger seat, rear door bike repair stand, and, of course, a really good stereo system.
 

OffroadHamster

Well-known member
Man, sounds like you have been busy. I have been lusting after a powered step. My wife has MS and sometimes has trouble with the giant step into large vans.

I will be honest, I have not gotten into the electrical system too heavily yet, however I was not aware that the factory Aux system could be used to jump the starter battery without getting under the hood. Can you explain that a bit more?

I considered the RB tray, they are local to me. Ultimately I decided to pull the FLA from under the hood and replace it with an AGM and mount a matching battery under the passenger seat. I will install a battery switch after the factory isolator and use solar for primary charging, flipping the switch to charge with the alternator in the event I need it. If I need more capacity I will fabricate a bracket to mount a couple of 6v's under the floor on the passenger side (laying on their sides)

I have a "project house" in addition to the van and work. If only there were more hours in the day. Im running on 5 hours of sleep a night trying to get this van put together. It doesnt help that as I build I change my mind on things.

My end goal is to have the van sleep 4, be configurable to seat 7 passengers (both 3 row benches), haul my mountain bike, have enough storage to schlep a weeks worth of clothes, food and camping gear for the family, be completely off-grid, and be all day comfortable for logging long miles to get where we want to go.

We are having our second child Saturday (planned C-section) so I think I am about to be completely out of time to work on this thing.

My goal is to have the van 90% built by the end of september. I would say 100% but none of my projects are ever more than 90% done :laughing:
 

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