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Old 08-28-2017, 03:25 AM   #21
Skippy and Emu
 
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Default Re: Turn signal intermittent Repaired

I can confirm the issues with soldering of the relays in the offending fuse block.
I initially removed the fuse block, whilst chasing an intermittent no crank, no start problem ( stiil unresolved, but that's another story, and I have learned to live with it ! ) Anyhow, whilst examining the fuse block, for some reason, I remembered that, on a past occasion, I had the feeling that my wipers were somewhat hesitant to engage. I checked the soldering of the associated relay, and sure enough, a visible dry joint. Examination of the adjacent indicators relay, revealed an imminent possible similar situation. I resoldered the connections on all 3 of the relays. ( 3 years so far with no further problems )
My thoughts on why the soldering of the relays is prone to failure.

1. The fuse block assembly is made in Italy. ( in my case anyway )

2. The relays, although not very heavy, are only held in place by their solder terminals. The relays are basically hanging upside down. The vibration of normal driving, has the effect of making them vulnerable to breaking away from the soldered joints. Perhaps a cable tie could be installed over the relays, to provide some mechanical support, to prevent them from trying to detach themselves.

Thanks to the Forum for giving me the confidence to attack the dreaded fuse block. By the way, I can also confirm that the bolt at the top of the fuse block does not want to play the game, and requires a cable tie to effect re- assembly.
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Old 08-28-2017, 04:51 AM   #22
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Default Re: Turn signal intermittent Repaired

My service manual references are for the US/Canada -flavo(u)r , so your placements may vary ...
(but i think fuse block#1 is standardized)

--dick
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Get YOUR Sprinter's full configuration datacard by entering your VIN to https://www.datamb.com/
http://diysprinter.co.uk/reference <-- lots of service documentation, Thanks to Jens Moller and Arnie_Oli
((as always: this post may go through a couple of post-posting edits... so maybe give it ten minutes before commenting))
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Old 08-28-2017, 04:03 PM   #23
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Default Re: Turn signal intermittent Repaired

The turn signal relay on fuse block 1 makes nice crisp clicks with the 4 way but only buzzes/sort of clicks with either turn signal, Brake lights work fine as do the flashing lights when locking the doors. Sounds like there are relays also under the seat in fuse block 2? If those relays are separate for left and right could both have gone bad? Thanks
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Old 08-28-2017, 06:29 PM   #24
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Default Re: Turn signal intermittent Repaired

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skippy and Emu View Post
...

2. The relays, although not very heavy, are only held in place by their solder terminals. The relays are basically hanging upside down. The vibration of normal driving, has the effect of making them vulnerable to breaking away from the soldered joints. Perhaps a cable tie could be installed over the relays, to provide some mechanical support, to prevent them from trying to detach themselves.
...
I agree that the solder posts seem skimpy as compared to some other boards that I've worked with. The contact post on my failed turn signal connection had burned off a bit. That was why I used a jumper wire. That and I figured it would be less susceptible to vibration and future problems.

Another issue, as you mentioned, is QC with the solder flow machine. The machine in this video is similar to what I recall. Cleanliness, proper prep, and setup are critical. I've been out of the business quite a while now. I imagine the machines have changed/improved.



Replacing the FB #1.

I'll be a broken record.
With the on board components the FB #1 is a module in the truest sense. Given the price for the new FB#1, and the fact that it comes loaded with all components, relays, and fuses, the only reason to mess with repair is because you are stuck, or just hardheaded like I can be. For a bit over 100 bucks you get all new parts, spare fuses/relays, and you can move along with troubleshooting if the problem wasn't cured.

vic
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Old 08-29-2017, 12:58 AM   #25
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Default Re: Turn signal intermittent Repaired

I would not drive a T1N any remote places without a spare FB1, or the tools/knowhow to bypass a failed relay etc. This is one of the few items that can fail with little warning, and result in a no start condition.
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Old 08-29-2017, 02:45 PM   #26
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Default Re: Turn signal intermittent Repaired

Quote:
Originally Posted by Midwestdrifter View Post
I would not drive a T1N any remote places without a spare FB1, or the tools/knowhow to bypass a failed relay etc. This is one of the few items that can fail with little warning, and result in a no start condition.
I completely agree, and last year replaced FB1, failing Multifunction switch, and failed starter (ignition) switch with OEM MB parts.
I am keeping the 2nd replacement FB1 in my traveling repair kit as it was working, and was just replaced to be sure all the contacts between the box and the MFS were new and tight. Just wish I had done all 3 sooner as I have not had any electrical issues since.

I also purchased several replacement relays that came with sockets on Amazon.
They from China... and yes I know but they do work well and have gotten me out of a few jams where the wipers or flasher failed. (I still keep a few of the original MB and HELLA replacement relays as well)

I had thought of soldering in the "wired sockets" into my spare FB1 as they really make much better contact an hold the relays super tightly and would not be as subject to vibration.

$12.49 for 5 relays and sockets:
https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

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Last edited by LuckyDawgz Jim; 08-29-2017 at 05:17 PM.
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Old 08-30-2017, 01:20 AM   #27
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Default Re: Turn signal intermittent Repaired

So I bought the $165 FB1 and installed it. Absolutely no change-relay still makes clicking/buzzing noise when L or R turn signal, but works fine with 4 way. Will check the relays under the seat next. Thanks
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Old 08-30-2017, 03:11 AM   #28
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Default Re: Turn signal intermittent Repaired

Here, in a combined form, are most of the pertinent pages of the service manual:
(some modules and subsections are shown twice due to the way the manual slices, dices and hides bits and pieces (it took digging to find the switch))

TurnSigs04switch-APnotes.jpg

TurnSigs01.png

TurnSignals02.png

TurnSigs03security.png

I think the top picture's "turn signal module" is part of the FB1 assembly.
If that relay is buzzing with both an old and new FB1 assembly, i'm puzzled.

--dick

This schematic corrects the errors in the B+ switch common. vic
TurnSigs04switch-APnotesCorrectedSm.png
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Get YOUR Sprinter's full configuration datacard by entering your VIN to https://www.datamb.com/
http://diysprinter.co.uk/reference <-- lots of service documentation, Thanks to Jens Moller and Arnie_Oli
((as always: this post may go through a couple of post-posting edits... so maybe give it ten minutes before commenting))

Last edited by Aqua Puttana; 09-05-2017 at 10:47 PM. Reason: Add schematic with switch position notes
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Old 08-30-2017, 03:39 AM   #29
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Default Re: Turn signal intermittent Repaired

Looks like it's time to replace the multi function switch?
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Old 08-30-2017, 02:23 PM   #30
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Default Re: Turn signal intermittent Repaired

From my recollection the separate right and left turn signal relays [under the driver seat] are for the Remote Lock/anti-theft signaling only. My 2006 with remotes has those relays. (EDW relays.)


2006Fuse#2.jpg


My 2004 does not.

2004Fuse#2.jpg

As an aside. No factory DRL on the 2006. The 2004 has DRL.

EDW relay addition with the 2006 only. I ass-u-me that means that for normal turn signal operation on both the 2004 and 2006 the FB #1 Flasher Module signal routes directly through the turn signal multifunction switch to the tail lights.


vic
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Last edited by Aqua Puttana; 08-30-2017 at 02:50 PM.
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