Dually rear wheel installation

Hello,

Never worked on a dual rear wheel truck before. Can someone provide the installation sequence of the cone shaped washers for the 2005 Sprinter 3500 dual rear wheel setup? I’m working on the parking brake system and removing the rear wheels for the first time. After many years of others working on the vehicle, I think mine are not correct.

There are two thicknesses, one @ 3.1mm and one at 6.7mm. The thinner one, on the studs protruding from the ‘wheel flange ring’ seem the be described as ‘Disc Wheel To Rear Axle Spherical Ring’ - Mopar (5103941AA).

The thicker one is described as ‘Lock Washer - Mopar (5104538AA)’.
This would imply that these would be under the lug nuts. But, on the right side there were no washers under the lugs, they were in the inner wheel. On the left, which I haven’t taken off, they do seem to be under the lug nuts (I took one off to inspect).

So, why am I concerned about this? Safety. I fibbed slightly. I took off the outer right side a couple thousand miles ago to try and arrange the tire valves per the manual and torqued the lugs to spec. in the proper star order. But, at least two lugs were very loose when I removed the wheel the other day perhaps because the lock nuts were missing? I recently checked my torque wrench @ 100 ft. lbs. and it seemed OK. But, it tops out at 150 ft. lbs. which is the spec. for the 3500 (140 +10). However, I’ve never had trouble with other nuts tightened to 125 ft. lbs. Nonetheless, I recently purchased a used Snap on QD3R250 which I will check calibration soon.

But, what about in-between the wheels? Being hub centric it would seem like washers wouldn’t be necessary and, if used back to back, they’d need to be the thinner ones. Mine is badged as a Freightliner so no information is available. Mercedes uses lug bolts and no washers which leaves the Mopar parts drawing that I found which is vague at best.

Perhaps the only thing amiss is that some numskull at a tire shop got it wrong but massively over torqued with the air gun thus masking his mistake.

Thanks,
jvf

jvf,
Ummmm....where did you come up with the torque specification "spec. for the 3500 (140 +10)".
AFAIK it has always been 133 Ft/Lbs. (180 Nm) for all 5 series (3500in the USA) Sprinters with all position dual
steel wheels.
Your 2005 T1N has 15" wheels and tires, right?
There needs to be a tapered washer to go in the countersunk side of the wheels.
Your best bet, to make finding adequate tires (other than the 195/70R15C Continental Vanco Four Seasons) woould
be to upgrade to later NCV3 Sprinter 65 series (3500 USA) all position dual steel wheels.
The wheels can be purchased for ~ $50 each (you need 7 of them) and you can get the later style captive washer
LUG NUTS fairly inexpensively as well.
Where are you finding commercial 15" tires that are rated for the weight of your Sprinter.
Also, you seem to be making a distinction between Freightliner Sprinters, Dodge Sprinters, and Mercedes Benz Sprinters.
They are all identical except to the exterior badges and the emblems in the steering wheels (ahh...maybe a couple of other
cosmetic things), but basically all the mechanical and electrical systems are identical.
Back to you tapered washer vs tapered lock washers dilemma.
If you look at it from a purely mechanical standpoint the countersink side of the inner rear wheel faces inboard.
The countersink side of the outer rear wheel faces outboard (long time and a whole lot of Sprinters since I converted
my 2006 3500 to NCV3 wheels and lug nuts so I might have this backwards).
Both rear wheels engage the hub centric lugs on the ends of your rear axle.
So, put the taper lock washers under the nut to fill the countersink so the nut seats properly.
The inner wheel should probably have the thin taper washers to fill in the countersink in the inner
wheel and the thicker taper lock washers to fill in the countersink in the outer wheels.
Essentially the thin and thick taper washers position the wheels on the lug studs and prevent
the wheels from turning slightly and having the sharp edge of the countersink damage the threads
on the lug studs.
Hope this helps,
Roger

Hi sailquik,

Thanks for your response. Might have found my answer by looking for wheel size in my manual. According to some on this forum my 2005 manual has some electrical diagram errors and was advised to look at the 2006 manual. My wheel size is 16” and tires are 225/75/R16. Torque specs in 2005 are given by the indecipherable (to me) model numbers 690.6. 901, 902, etc. WTF?? 2006 manual (22-7) says 3500 series is 140+10. I’ve always wondered why it says 177+10 for the 2500 series. Maybe they have 5 lug wheels instead of 6? It also says to recheck a couple of times at 100 and 500 miles which I didn't do. Oops!

Anyway, scrolling through PDF files (especially 1500 page PDF files) has always been problematic for me. But, when I started to look in the wheel section to verify my 16” rims, I came upon 22-14 which shows the position of the washers which are the thin ones on the wheel flange ring and lock washers below the nuts with nothing between the wheels. It also shows the valve stem positions so I must have visited this page before but wasn’t paying any attention to anything else.

As for all things being equal (Freightliner, Dodge, Mercedes) I agree (until now, maybe). In fact, while I was repairing a failed transmission rebuild myself (another post) I got most of my parts from the local (Maui) Mercedes dealer so I decided my truck should “come out of the closet” and display its true Mercedes colors and I got a Mercedes star emblem to paste onto the hood. While searching for something else I came across Mercedes sprinter grills to replace Dodge grills. Yeah, baby! So, I pulled off the star and got a proper grill with the star in it. Looks great! Unlike the Mercedes dealers on the mainland, who would have thunk it but the Mercedes parts dept. here on Maui has been great. But, they couldn’t find cone washers. They sent me their parts blow up and it showed wheel bolts instead of lug nuts while the local Dodge dealer’s diagram showed the washers and lug nuts.

jvf

jvf,
The specified torque for your steel all position 5 series (3500 USA) 16" wheels is 133 Ft/Lbs. (180 M/m).
The reason the 2500's use the 177 Ft/Lbs.(240 N/m) torque is because for the factory steel wheels they use LUG BOLTS.
And the wheels can only be installed with the offset IN toward the center of the vehicle. The wheels are are LUG CENTRIC meaning
the male spherical radius on the LUG BOLTS engages the female spherical radius pressed into the steel wheels.
The LUG Bolts are what centers the wheels.
The 5 series/3500 USA steel wheels can be installed with the offset IN on the front and IN on the inner rear wheels and OUT on the outer rear wheels and they use LUG Studs and LUG Nuts. They are also HUB Centric meaning they are
located by the HUB Centric diameter machined on the 6 lugs on the end of the axle adapters
that fits in the large diameter hole in the center of the wheels..
Can you not find a .PDF file of the 2006 or 2006 Dodge or Freightliner Owners Manual.
Someone on here must have them downloaded and would be willing to share them with you.
Hope this helps,
Roger

Miraculously, my '04 Dodge 3500 came with the printed Owner's Manual!

Quoting from page 197, Centering wheels with wheel bolts:

• If dual assemblies are used, before placement the inner wheel should be inspected to ensure that all ball bearing rings are in proper position.
• Install the wheel and snug the wheel bolts.

"Ball bearing rings"? Heaven help us. And no mention whatever of the washers under the lug nuts.

Then on page 198, Tightening torque for 9990 lbs (4530 kgs) (vehicle type 3500C/HC/SHC):

Steel wheel - 138 lbf.ft ± 14 lbf.ft (190N.m± 20N.m)

Your van has 16" wheels? Are the bolt holes countersunk for the washers? If not, you already have NCV3 wheels and NO WASHERS ARE REQUIRED, but you need the correct matching NCV3 lug nuts with integrated washers.

Is your rig a factory built cutaway camper or cab & chassis cargo truck? NCV3 cab & chassis and/or cutaway Sprinters have 6" wide 16" duallies. So if your 16" wheels are countersunk for washers you apparently have wheels from a cab & chassis or cutaway T1N. I wasn't aware 16" wheels were fitted to any T1N 3500s. Anybody?

Whew. To summarize: Look for countersunk bolt holes.
Countersunk - Use the washers under the wheels AND under the lug nuts; no washers between the wheels. Torque to 138±14.
No countersink - Use the new lug nuts and no washers (no ball bearing rings either). I don't know the torque spec.

And just for my curiosity, see if you can find the wheel size stamped into the outer edge of the wheels. Should read 16 X 5.5 or 16 X 6.

Any new information to report? According to the T1N Complete Sprinter Fault Guide all T1N 3500s had 15" wheels.
Therefore your 16" wheels must be from an NCV3. So they are not countersunk for washers. Can you confirm?