Noblemercedes warning: Change Turbo Inlet Seal every time disturbed

hoosierrun

Active member
I have a 2016 3500 V6. When I did the first fuel filter change at around 18,000 miles on the vehicle, I had been educated by you guys about the turbo inlet seal and proper air filter box handling, and had a replacement turbo seal on hand. However, when I tried to remove the old seal, it appeared to be well affixed as if it was glued in place. It looked like I would have to do some prying with sharp objects to get it out. It was not damaged or brittle or cracked, so I left it in place. It was still pliable on the edges, so it didn't feel like it had been cooked into place. Now it's time to change the fuel filter again. Could Mercedes be gluing the part in place to help keep it from getting sucked into the turbo? Has anybody had difficulty removing the old turbo seal? Do I need to up my vitamin intake?
FYI, my seal was glued to the tube in a few places on my 2016. I thought maybe one of the dealerships did it when they replaced an injector at 10,000 miles, but your post pretty much confirms that it is being done at the factory. I got the old seal off but there was glue residue on there that I thought might make it difficult for the new seal to be 100% sealed against the tube. I bought a new tube which comes with a new seal and that part had no adhesive holding the seal on there. That made my first fuel filter change a bit expensive, but still much cheaper than taking it to a Mercedes dealer.
 

Andrew_T

Active member
I replaced my old hose with the orange seal with a new hose with a black seal.Not sure on the statement that you have to stay with the seal color your car came with.
Orange seal came undone on my way from Texas to Seattle. Pitch black in the Oregon mountains very loud whistling noise at 3:00AM.
Tightened it, came undone again.
Tightened again, as hard as I could do it with a hot turbo and stayed somewhat put til I got home.
Replaced with the new black seal and new hose. However, I remember inserting seal on the turbo inlet first, then the hose over it.
I’m not sure I’d be comfortable doing it the other way.Seems too easy to have the seal fold onto itself...or maybe I’m overthinking this.
Btw, hose and black seal was bought from Europarts SD . Seal was not glued onto the hose.
 

TooMuchHair

Active member
Here’s some pictures of what happens to the turbo when some of it gets sucked in. I’ve had a couple of them with damaged and one where I had to replace the turbo.
Just to be clear and make sure nobody gets confused, your second picture shows both the old style (orange) seal and the newer radial style seal (black). They are not interchangeable.
 

ADVnut

2018 NCV3 144
I have a newer NCV3 (2018) and had the fuel filter dealer replaced around 20K. They charged me for the seal.

At 40K I changed the fuel filter myself and the intake seal was glued/ bonded to the tube. It looked basically new, so I reused the seal. I had new ones on hand.

When I change again at 60K, does anyone know what the adhesive is? It doesn't seem to be factory applied to the seal itself, but I could be wrong.

Anyone know what adhesive is used?

:cheers:
 

Mike DZ

2016 View 24V (2015 3500)
I don't believe that use of adhesive is part of the standard MB procedure. Seal goes into the hose first and then onto the turbo. If you do it the other way around the seal doesn't "snap" in to the interior profile of the hose. The profile and the small force of the clamp is what holds the seal in place. At least this is true on my NCV3 3.0 liter.
 

TooMuchHair

Active member
I have a newer NCV3 (2018) and had the fuel filter dealer replaced around 20K. They charged me for the seal.

At 40K I changed the fuel filter myself and the intake seal was glued/ bonded to the tube. It looked basically new, so I reused the seal. I had new ones on hand.

When I change again at 60K, does anyone know what the adhesive is? It doesn't seem to be factory applied to the seal itself, but I could be wrong.

Anyone know what adhesive is used?

:cheers:
As Mike DZ points out, the seal must be "worked" into the plastic clean air pipe first! Your seal was stuck on to the aluminum turbo inlet likely due to heat transferred to the cold side associated with inadvertently interrupting one or more regen cycles. The inlet side of the turbo remains relatively cool (<coolant temp) during normal driving because of the constant stream of cool, clean air passing through it. As soon as you turn the engine off the hot, heavy steel side of the turbo begins to flow towards the cooler aluminum side (heat seeks cold) if turbo temp is 400F to 700F normal operating temps this will dissipate and not begin to damage the inlet seal ring (too bad)....but when you unknowingly interrupt a regen the hot side of the turbo might still be almost 1400F....at that point the aluminum side of the turbo temperature will skyrocket! That heat begins to damage the rubber seal, appearing to be stuck or glued on is reason enough to follow MB's bulletin to replace every time it is disturbed. If you even needed a reason.
You can heat the aluminum with a heat gun, being careful not to melt nearby plastic parts and it will slide right off. Throw it away and put the new one into the plastic pipe, with the raised ridge carefully worked into the corresponding area in the clean air pipe first. Industrial users call this a "radial style" seal, it is superior to the old style seal but not as forgiving.
 
D

Deleted member 50714

Guest
I would like to note, inspect to verify clean air tube inside profile matches new seal.
 

Mike DZ

2016 View 24V (2015 3500)
This device is used to repair a hose that connects directly to the intercooler. This is very different than the clean air line seal that has been discussed above.

This intercooler hose repair used to be more common until MB re-designed the hose to reduce the force applied. Newer intercooler hoses rarely fail in a way that requires this device.
 

ADVnut

2018 NCV3 144
I don't believe that use of adhesive is part of the standard MB procedure. Seal goes into the hose first and then onto the turbo. If you do it the other way around the seal doesn't "snap" in to the interior profile of the hose. The profile and the small force of the clamp is what holds the seal in place. At least this is true on my NCV3 3.0 liter.
As Mike DZ points out, the seal must be "worked" into the plastic clean air pipe first! Your seal was stuck on to the aluminum turbo inlet likely due to heat transferred to the cold side associated with inadvertently interrupting one or more regen cycles. The inlet side of the turbo remains relatively cool (<coolant temp) during normal driving because of the constant stream of cool, clean air passing through it. As soon as you turn the engine off the hot, heavy steel side of the turbo begins to flow towards the cooler aluminum side (heat seeks cold) if turbo temp is 400F to 700F normal operating temps this will dissipate and not begin to damage the inlet seal ring (too bad)....but when you unknowingly interrupt a regen the hot side of the turbo might still be almost 1400F....at that point the aluminum side of the turbo temperature will skyrocket! That heat begins to damage the rubber seal, appearing to be stuck or glued on is reason enough to follow MB's bulletin to replace every time it is disturbed. If you even needed a reason.
You can heat the aluminum with a heat gun, being careful not to melt nearby plastic parts and it will slide right off. Throw it away and put the new one into the plastic pipe, with the raised ridge carefully worked into the corresponding area in the clean air pipe first. Industrial users call this a "radial style" seal, it is superior to the old style seal but not as forgiving.

Thanks guys, I should have been more clear. My seal came off with the plastic pipe and was not bonded to the aluminum turbo inlet. The seal was definitely bonded to the black plastic pipe with an adhesive. I could see the color of the tan/ brownish adhesive. My first thought was to start gently prying out the seal with a screw-driver, but it looked practically new and was well stuck. Maybe the dealership did this at the first fuel filter change. :idunno:

Just want to be sure I am prepared when I replace the seal at the next fuel filter change.
 

Mike DZ

2016 View 24V (2015 3500)
Thanks guys, I should have been more clear. My seal came off with the plastic pipe and was not bonded to the aluminum turbo inlet. The seal was definitely bonded to the black plastic pipe with an adhesive. I could see the color of the tan/ brownish adhesive. My first thought was to start gently prying out the seal with a screw-driver, but it looked practically new and was well stuck. Maybe the dealership did this at the first fuel filter change. :idunno:

Just want to be sure I am prepared when I replace the seal at the next fuel filter change.
Somewhere on the forum someone reported that they ingested one of these seals into the turbo. Many thousand dollars later he had a running Sprinter again. Perhaps your dealership (or an individual tech) has gone through a similar experience and has adopted a local procedure to reduce the chance of a recurrence.
 

bigb

2011 Winnebago Via 25Q on 2010 3500 Tucson, AZ
I just looked at my 2011 motorhome and the hose is a 906-528-15-24 so the seal should be the orange one. Somewhere back in this thread someone mentioned replacing the air hose after 5 years or so, if I do that is there any advantage in switching to the newer hose and black seal? Seems a post or two say the orange seal may be better?

edit: A quick search shows the old style 906-528-15-24 no longer available and replaced by 906-528-22-24
 
Last edited:

TooMuchHair

Active member
I just looked at my 2011 motorhome and the hose is a 906-528-15-24 so the seal should be the orange one. Somewhere back in this thread someone mentioned replacing the air hose after 5 years or so, if I do that is there any advantage in switching to the newer hose and black seal? Seems a post or two say the orange seal may be better?

edit: A quick search shows the old style 906-528-15-24 no longer available and replaced by 906-528-22-24
If the old style orange seal has any advantage, it might be that is more forgiving to swinging the clean air pipe out of the way and possibly simpler to install because it could be slid onto the turbo first.
The new style that is black must be worked into the the corresponding clean air pipe first, the "radial" portion of the seal will not just slip into position if slid onto the turbo first like the orange seal.
Radial style seals started showing up on industrial engine's air cleaners over twenty years ago and are still considered to be superior.
 

dilit

2007 Dodge Sprinter 3500 (NCV3)
Thanks goes to Noblemercedes. :thumbup::thumbup:

Official Information from Mercedes.

NCV3 OM642 V6 Engine



The original thread is here.

Turbo inlet seal bulletin
https://sprinter-source.com/forums/showthread.php?t=48553

View attachment 77752

vic

A MB tip for proper installation. Thanks goes to Mikeme.



The raw text from the PDF above.

"Date: April 6, 2013
Order No.: V-B-09.00/01
Supersedes:
Group: 09
SUBJECT: MY-All, Model 906 with Engine 642
Operations in Clean Air Line Area
When working around or in the clean air line area, or when replacing it, the seals and boots for the
clean air line must be checked for damage or incorrect mounting.
Damaged mounting can lead to:
• Engine diagnosis warning lamp lights up
• Engine has low output, switches to limp-home, emits blue smoke
• Damage to turbocharger
• Engine damage

NOTE: The clean air line seal to the turbocharger must be replaced each time the connection is
released. Deformed or damaged boots must also be replaced.
Incorrect mounting will result in complaints about engine running characteristics.
Under certain circumstances, damaged or deformed seals on the clean air line can allow dirt and
foreign matter in and damage the engine.
The specified torque of 3Nm for mounting the clean air line to the compressor section of the
turbocharger must be followed. In the event of a complaint, check the seals and boots of the clean
air line for correct seating and signs of damage. Always document these instances with pictures.
Warranty and goodwill claims for engine damage that has been caused by incorrect mounting of
the clean air line, will be rejected.
When working on a vehicle where the clean air line/air filter box needs to be moved, do not rotate
the clean air assembly while affixed to the turbocharge. This will damage the seal on the
turbocharger. Ensure that the clean air assembly is removed completely."
This bulletin has been created and maintained in accordance with MBUSA-SLP S423QH001, Document and Data Control, and
MBUSA-SLP S424HH001, Control of Quality Records
Yaikes @Aqua Puttana
I was working in there to replace all the glow plugs. Had to remount that seal twice. it was spewing diesel when running otherwise.
Now makes me wonder if this all can somehow be related to "DPF: Excessive Ash Accumulation" problem I started to experience some time after?
There is no visible exhaust leak in there though. I'd think it unlikely.
Still, good to know ?
 

bigb

2011 Winnebago Via 25Q on 2010 3500 Tucson, AZ
As you may know, the 906-528-22-24 hose only works with the black seal. So, if you are going to replace the hose, the decision about which seal is made for you. Europarts San Diego is a good source, if you need an alternative to the dealer.
Hey Bob care to say which bicycle torque wrench you got? Looking to pick up an inch pound/nm torque wrench, I have a beam/pointer style now but not always too easy to use or accurate
 

Ralfk807

Member
Not sure if this had been covered in this thread but the turbo inlet seal kit for my 2008 dodge from IDparts came with 4 seals: the main orange intake seal, a green o-ring, a black o-ring, and a "ccv grommet". The ccv grommet fits the piping perfectly over the smaller hose as shown below. The issue is that the tube will not fit inside the socket of the larger plastic tube that it came out off. When I took things apart, this ccv grommet was not there but the pieces fit together with friction...so I just don't see how this grommet can fit here. The outside diameter of the grommet is way larger than the inside diameter of the socket that it goes into on the turbo inlet plastic pipe. Anyone else have this issue? Is the grommet only used in other designs/model years or something? I removed it and did not end up using it.

PXL_20210301_235321639.jpgPXL_20210301_235401659.jpg
 

bigb

2011 Winnebago Via 25Q on 2010 3500 Tucson, AZ
The orange PCV seal is for a different application, I believe it is for the CDI passenger cars with dual air boxes. ID parts includes it in their kit most likely because a large number of their customers drive passenger cars.
 

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