Coach Purchase Suggestions

Msu719

New member
PLEASE HELP! My wife and I are in the midst of shopping for our first motorhome. Our budget is $110,000. We're leaning towards a lightly used Serenity, Unity CB, or new Winnebago View 24J. My 3 top selection criteria are rig reliability, reliability, and reliability! I'm not mechanically inclined (college degree in Finance)and many of these board discussions regarding fixing battery/electrical problems fly way over my head. I'm pretty much sold on the Sprinter Chassis.

I did buy a new (with assumption new would have less problems) travel trailer summer of 2018 so I'm somewhat familiar with all the systems.

Lastly, is there a good source of motorhome reliability data anywhere? Like a JDPower for vehicles type thing.

THANK YOU in advance for any suggestions!
 

geds

2018 Serenity
Good luck with your decision! I recommend renting a similar model for a weekend to ensure you are comfortable with the layout and features you think you want now - many, if not most of us, realized after our first purchase that we would've opted for different features once we actually began using the RV. That being said, the LTV RVs have much higher quality standards and are more reliable than Winnebago. I traded a 2015 Winnebago ERA for a Serenity after one year because the Winnebago was so poorly constructed. They used press board, carpet stapled to press board and glue for the interior walls! Imagine riding down the road and sections of the interior wall fall off onto the floor (and it not being a rough road)! The slide destroyed our flooring twice - had to have it replaced under warranty both times. I decided if we were going to have that much trouble under warranty, how expensive would it be to maintain?! And the squeaks and rattles while driving were difficult to talk over.

I suggest riding in a used model of each, just so you can see the difference in the quality after the break-in period and warranty are over.
 

Mike DZ

2016 View 24V (2015 3500)
Assuming "rig reliability" means chassis reliability, there is no difference between the cab chassis that LTV uses and the cab chassis Winnebago uses, the difference is what is built on top of that cab chassis.

If "rig reliability" means the combination of chassis and "house", it is generally thought that LTV has better workmanship than Winnebago. However, the components that any MH maker uses are from a limited set of suppliers, neither LTV and Winnebago build their own refrig, hot water heater, toilet etc. geds suggests there is a difference also in material selection during the design process. As is obvious from my signature block, I have NOT had the problems geds is describing.

The question then becomes: are you willing to pay the premium for the better LTV workmanship (and perhaps material choices)

geds suggestion to sample a used model of each has merit in informing that decision.
 

mikeme

2015 LTV IB: 2015 3500 V6
Hopefully with a degree in finance, your budget includes reserve funding for the repairs you will need.

you will need repairs. as stated, things will go wrong, parts will break, screws will come loose, and you will have to deal with it.

it is possible to learn these things, or to learn to trust local repair people.

new is not a get out of jail free card. things go wrong with new as well as old. sometimes just different. There are owners who have terrible issues with new RVs.

Learning to pay attention is key. and when something changes, the ability to determine if it can wait, or if you need to cancel every other thing till it gets fixed.

JD powers only surveys owners, it is not a compilation of actual failure and repair data. (which is collected by vehicle makers, but is highly confidential)

There are people who buy new every year or so, for the latest and greatest, and to stay within warranty. this is a luxury. and it costs money. it does not really make the RV trouble free.

We picked up a 2015 LTV that was two years old with 18,000 miles. purchase price was $100k, and we are happy with our adventures. now at 68000 miles. along the way we had engine mechanical issues, leaky tires, Leaky wheels, problems getting folks to balance wheels properly, a broken isolation relay, and fridge issues. twice the wind caught the door and broke the window. Caulk in the roof leaked. water pipes connection to the toilet came loose and leaked water. we had levelers installed, and dealt with a couple failures with them.

My response is to figure out the problems and fix them. it is an equally valid response to find and use service folks. with an RV, they are not quick, or cheap, but that is a choice.

Some folks do it themselves. other people call for help themselves.
 
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kmay

2013 Unity MB
From my experience, owning a RV is very much a lifestyle of diagnosing and problem solving. First question I ask potential owners is "are you handy or do you want to be handy?"

Think of it this way, this is a house that frequently experiences hurricane and earthquakes at the same time, for hours at a time. Even the best built RV will need regular attention. Further, most of the things you do without thinking at home (going to the bathroom, operating appliances etc) have procedures and consequences.

One can get a lot of hotel, VRBO or similar nights for the same money, you already know how and you can leave the tools and problems with the owner.

If you are up to the challenge, purchasing a used LTV product would be a great start. The house is very well built, cabinetry is top notch and resale values are great. In a well loved coach with many aftermarket modifications, the owner has likely resolved recurring problems. You can learn to deal with the rest.
 

TJLee089

2013 Itasca Reyo 25R
Based on your criteria (below), my short answer is "Do not buy a motorhome." My wife tells friends, "If you have money left over at the end of the month and do not have enough aggravation in your life, buy a motorhome."

To expound, I have owned a Winnebago ERA (1 year) and an Itasca (Winnebago) Reyo (7 years, still using). I am fairly handy. At 70+, I will probably never buy another motorhome, but if I did, it would be neither a Winnebago product nor an MB Sprinter chassis. I have many pages of "fixes" I have done on the house side and some failures that cannot be fixed. The Sprinter diesel is a very complicated engine that has let me down several times. Competent repair shops (unlike Ford or Chevrolet products) are few and far between.

I don't think there is a "superstar" motorhome brand in your price range. I wish there were.

I wish this rant had made me feel better, but it didn't.

My 3 top selection criteria are rig reliability, reliability, and reliability!
 
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SSTraveler

2014 LTV Unity Murphy Bed
..........My 3 top selection criteria are rig reliability, reliability, and reliability! I'm not mechanically inclined (college degree in Finance)and many of these board discussions regarding fixing battery/electrical problems fly way over my head.
I'm pretty much sold on the Sprinter Chassis. ............
As others have stated the notion of RV reliability is complicated with no single answer. I think people less DIY oriented might be frustrated with RV ownership because they have to rely on others for repairs. It has been my experience that finding good RV repair shops and/or qualified knowledge repair personnel is very difficult. Friends that rely on local shops are very frustrated by how difficult it is to get a repair appointment, how long they have to leave their rigs at the shop for the repairs, and then how dissatisfied they are with the quality of the repair or that it isn't repaired. Every RV is going to have issues, the whole industry is plagued with quality control issues, no matter how much you pay. Not to mention the fact that you have 11,000lbs of coach and chassis bouncing, bumping, and jarring impacts it's way down the road. Stuff is just gonna fail! I have owned my Unity for more than 5 years, I am very handy and have been able to fix all my Coach issues myself. On the Sprinter Chassis side, while having what I believe to be to many visits to the Mercedes shop, I have had very good experiences and results from Mercedes. Many dream of driving and camping across the country in your own rig, but the reality can become a nightmare, especially for people who aren't able to diagnose and repair things for themselves. As others have advised, you may want to rent before you buy to make sure RVing is the investment/commitment you really want to make!

With regard to Sprinter Chassis or Leisure Unity knowledge, this Forum is wonderful! I can honestly say I would not still own my 2014 Leisure Unity without the aid of this Forum!
 
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Scarecrow

2017 LTV Unity Murphy Bed
This is probably THE Number One most difficult question to answer OBJECTIVELY. Why? Because you are in a Unity Forum, and most of us already made our decision and bought a Unity. Some -- like me -- bought the first RV that we fell in love with, kept coming back to, and were most-impressed by -- the Unity. And, in my opinion, NOBODY on the Internet seems to be willing to say "I made a mistake in my decision." -- assuming they ever realize that they did.

Like you, I started my research out by looking for answers on Google. I found everything from "The Best Reasons NOT to Buy an RV!" (some lawyer in Michigan who thinks we're all crazy - and he may be right) to this website that DOES publish a number of books, reports, and even offers Purchasing Secrets (NONE of which worked for me, nor seemed to apply when talking about Leisure Travel Vans products): https://rvreviews.net/motorhome-comparison-guide/

He does offer some Reliability Data -- but it's mostly a category-based points system. He claims his numbers and reports are up-to-date. I ordered ALL of the pertinent publications he offers (which can add up). And I even ordered his Market Price Report - which was basically useless because he was telling me I could get a 30% Discount if I followed his suggestions -- BS on that! It might work for Winnebago, but not LTV. I finally came to my own conclusion: Follow your gut. In my case, I was impressed by the following with LTV:
1) The coaches are downright beautiful.
2) The design elements are well thought-out. Curved outside bin doors. Plenty of storage. Storage bins that move WITH the slideout. Recessed HVAC systems to make the ceiling less claustrophobic. Rear cameras that do not look like an afterthought. They invented the Murphy Bed floorplan (although it was at the suggestion of a well-known competitor, believe it or not).
3) Their reputation online. I tried very hard to find disgruntled people - and found very few.
4) Their videos and marketing materials are second to none.
5) The Dealers seem to respect them far more than any others.
6) They are hard to find on a sales lot -- this tells me they are grabbed-up quickly.
7) They seem to hold their resale better. I cannot prove this, however. But when I priced used vs. new, I decided new was a better value.

And, now that I've owned mine since the end of 2016, I can add one more: I have NEVER had a reaction in public like I get on nearly every trip when driving my Unity! People stop and gawk, and total strangers start up conversations. Nearly every one of them say something like...
"That's the RV that I really wanted, but my partner/wife/husband talked me into something else!"
"Dang! That sure is pretty!"
"I am really impressed with your Unity - compared to the junk I'm driving." - hard to believe, but that last comment came from a fairly recent Tiffin owner, parked right next to me in Salt Lake City. I was shocked because I've always heard Tiffin builds a stellar coach.

So, I know I did not answer your questions, nor resolve your decision. You might ask yourself this: How many of the other brands, and those models, do you see sitting on a Dealer's lot as you travel around? How does that compare to LTV? If you come to the conclusion that I did, there may be a reason. LTV has a unique niche market. You do pay more... for a reason. LTV could not maintain those pricepoints for very long if a lot of their buyers were ultimately dissatisfied. You would see huge discounts everywhere.

Keep in mind, in most States, that $110,000 RV can be a small write-off when filing taxes, since it can be counted as a second home. You may be hard-pressed finding one in that range, if you are including taxes in the final figure. But there are hundreds of RVs that were barely used by their owners, so buying used can be a way to save, if you are careful and lucky. The average motorhome gets used only 21 days each year.
 
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C21bill

2018 Unity TB
As far as small rv's I have had an Itasca Navion IQ, an Airstream Interstate and my current Leisure Unity U24TB. The LTV is by far the best quality of the 3 and has presented the fewest issues. It also gets 2mpg better than the Itasca which had the same chassis and a similar footprint. I have had just 2 minor warranty issues on the LTV.
 

geds

2018 Serenity
This is probably THE Number One most difficult question to answer OBJECTIVELY. Why? Because you are in a Unity Forum, and most of us already made our decision and bought a Unity. Some -- like me -- bought the first RV that we fell in love with, kept coming back to, and were most-impressed by -- the Unity. And, in my opinion, NOBODY on the Internet seems to be willing to say "I made a mistake in my decision." -- assuming they ever realize that they did.

Like you, I started my research out by looking for answers on Google. I found everything from "The Best Reasons NOT to Buy an RV!" (some lawyer in Michigan who thinks we're all crazy - and he may be right) to this website that DOES publish a number of books, reports, and even offers Purchasing Secrets (NONE of which worked for me, nor seemed to apply when talking about Leisure Travel Vans products): https://rvreviews.net/motorhome-comparison-guide/

He does offer some Reliability Data -- but it's mostly a category-based points system. He claims his numbers and reports are up-to-date. I ordered ALL of the pertinent publications he offers (which can add up). And I even ordered his Market Price Report - which was basically useless because he was telling me I could get a 30% Discount if I followed his suggestions -- BS on that! It might work for Winnebago, but not LTV. I finally came to my own conclusion: Follow your gut. In my case, I was impressed by the following with LTV:
1) The coaches are downright beautiful.
2) The design elements are well thought-out. Curved outside bin doors. Plenty of storage. Storage bins that move WITH the slideout. Recessed HVAC systems to make the ceiling less claustrophobic. Rear cameras that do not look like an afterthought. They invented the Murphy Bed floorplan (although it was at the suggestion of a well-known competitor, believe it or not).
3) Their reputation online. I tried very hard to find disgruntled people - and found very few.
4) Their videos and marketing materials are second to none.
5) The Dealers seem to respect them far more than any others.
6) They are hard to find on a sales lot -- this tells me they are grabbed-up quickly.
7) They seem to hold their resale better. I cannot prove this, however. But when I priced used vs. new, I decided new was a better value.

And, now that I've owned mine since the end of 2016, I can add one more: I have NEVER had a reaction in public like I get on nearly every trip when driving my Unity! People stop and gawk, and total strangers start up conversations. Nearly every one of them say something like...
"That's the RV that I really wanted, but my partner/wife/husband talked me into something else!"
"Dang! That sure is pretty!"
"I am really impressed with your Unity - compared to the junk I'm driving." - hard to believe, but that last comment came from a fairly recent Tiffin owner, parked right next to me in Salt Lake City. I was shocked because I've always heard Tiffin builds a stellar coach.

So, I know I did not answer your questions, nor resolve your decision. You might ask yourself this: How many of the other brands, and those models, do you see sitting on a Dealer's lot as you travel around? How does that compare to LTV? If you come to the conclusion that I did, there may be a reason. LTV has a unique niche market. You do pay more... for a reason. LTV could not maintain those pricepoints for very long if a lot of their buyers were ultimately dissatisfied. You would see huge discounts everywhere.

Keep in mind, in most States, that $110,000 RV can be a small write-off when filing taxes, since it can be counted as a second home. You may be hard-pressed finding one in that range, if you are including taxes in the final figure. But there are hundreds of RVs that were barely used by their owners, so buying used can be a way to save, if you are careful and lucky. The average motorhome gets used only 21 days each year.
To add to Scarecrow's compliments: I frequently get complements on my LTV Serenity, but the one that meant the most was from a US Park Ranger at the entrance gate to Joshua Tree N.P. For a ranger to stop and compliment the rig, was special as he sees thousands of rigs going through his gate!
 

TJLee089

2013 Itasca Reyo 25R
True if you finance and itemize deductions, however following tax reform for 2018, nearly doubling the standard deduction, it is estimated that only 10% of taxpayers will itemize.

Keep in mind, in most States, that $110,000 RV can be a small write-off when filing taxes, since it can be counted as a second home.
 

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