Brake longevity

Kiltym

Active member
When are Westy's due for new brakes? We have 60k on the originals and thinking it's about time, but if we can get another 10k, we'll take it!

Thanks in advance for sharing experiences.
 

Wasaabi

Sprinter Westfalia #133
Original pads + rotors replaced at 88k front, 95k rear. Impressively heavy duty. Lower mileage Westy owners might do brakes once every twenty years...
 

Wasaabi

Sprinter Westfalia #133
Since we are on the topic, a tip from Dr. A: do not use the transmission as your brakes. Maintaining speed on decent is okay within reason, but don’t use the tranny to actually slow yourself down. Give it some help here and there with brakes (especially in Colorado). Brakes are way cheaper than transmissions and they are long lasting on the Sprinter T1N.
 

ENMeyer

Well-known member
It's fairly easy to see the pad thickness through the wheels. You will get a brake warning light when they get near their end of life. Mine made it to 95k miles, but I don't have a camper Sprinter.
 

CaptnALinTiverton

xT1N Westfalia
I did my brakes, rotors and calipers at 86,500 miles.

Doktor A never told me not to downshift. My cousin was service manager for Chrysler and said it was fine. I do it all the time and it is actually very necessary on some of the hills I've been on, some over 11%. I have stopped for brakes to cool on many roads even while downshifting.
Of course you have to be careful not to cause extreme RPMs but I don't think that the ECU will allow that anyway.

Andy, if you're watching, please prove me wrong.

AL
Tiverton
 

Wasaabi

Sprinter Westfalia #133
You can downshift, but use your transmission to hold your speed as opposed to using it to actually slow yourself down. So brake first, the downshift. Dr. A told me that using the tranny as brakes is what caused problems in some of the FedEx vans.
 

CaptnALinTiverton

xT1N Westfalia
Big trucks use engine brakes all the time. I'd like to see evidence of harm before I buy it. Perhaps it causes more pressure in the cylinders or something else but the load on the tranny should be no more in one direction than in the other. I welcome all experts to submit relevant comments. (I have total respect for Dr. A's opinion but what was stated sounds like hearsay on the subject or a somewhat related story). Besides, the German engineers make no mention of it in the books that I've noticed.

AL
 

OldWest

2004 T1N Westfalia
1. Lifespan

Don't remember for sure, but think my front pads and rotors were done at 60-70k and rear pads and rotors around 100k.

Sprinter rotors tend to wear out at same time as pads, so it seems both Sprinter pads and rotors get replaced at same time.

2. Parts

Europarts-Sd.com carries various replacements and they can tell you the right fit (apparently, Sprinters of the same year may have different brake parts).

My original front pads made a lot of brake dust but the replacement ones I got made a lot less dust. Don't remember what I got but I think I posted on Yahoo Westfalia Group.

3. Inspection

Dr A gave a good tip for quick check. Use a penlight or small flashlight in the early evening to check the outer brake pads. The alloy wheels have more space to stick the flashlight inside the wheel.

Obviously, it's better to remove wheels to check inner and outer brake pads.

Amazon sells green-yellow-red brake pad thickness gauges to stick to the brake pads to determine thickness.

4. Rust

Sprinters in snowy areas may have rotors rusted to the wheel/axle hubs. May require a sledgehammer to separate rotors. But YouTube videos have rusted on rotors being separated by using nuts and bolts.
 
Just replaced pads on all four wheels at 90,000 miles. Front rotors need replacing but Freightliner, in Kansas City, needed three days to get them; they’ll have to wait until we get home from this trip. Don’t go to Freightliner if you have another option; we didn’t; it was $1,200. He said the rear pads still looked thick enough but were crumby when he poked at them.
 

onemanvan

Active member
Somewhere between 35K and 40K my front brakes started making a metal on metal grinding noise when descending a steep grade. Inspection revealed the rotors and pads were well within spec - however the rotors did have hotspots on them. I ordered and installed a replacement set of pads and rotors from Europarts-sd for $160 ( https://europarts-sd.com/item.asp?cID=99&PID=2544 ). Since then no more problems...
 

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autocamp

un-Airstream'ed & un-Dodged NAFTA JC
Somewhere between 35K and 40K my front brakes started making a metal on metal grinding noise when descending a steep grade. Inspection revealed the rotors and pads were well within spec - however the rotors did have hotspots on them. I ordered and installed a replacement set of pads and rotors from Europarts-sd for $160 ( https://europarts-sd.com/item.asp?cID=99&PID=2544 ). Since then no more problems...
I have very little notion of how far my brakes are from needing replacement. But since it is now a 12,500 lb road train I figure it doesn't hurt to procure the parts so they are in the ready. It is a bit too much of PITA to jack up one corner and check.

Rather than following the known good method you kindly provided, I decided to go all rock bottom - that is to source individual pieces from Rock Bottom Auto, instead of buying this kit. I figure in most likelihood the rear brakes should wear much slower than the front, so I am dealing with just the front for now.

BTW, the Europarts kit has Meyle pads, but they don't tell you who's rotors and wear sensors are. In all likelihood they are utility generic parts that cost very little (but there is nothing wrong with them) so I figure I can do much better by doing a bit of hard work at Rock Bottom Auto myself. I like Raybestos and I know the company from buying racing pads and rotors from them.

The challenge with buying individual parts from Rockauto is their site is a kind of sucks, and there is complication with 2500 that has 15" wheels. I am struggling to infer the right pad wear sensor. May be I should just jack up one corner and see them first hand myself.

Why I want to do this the hard way? I want better HD metallic brake pads and hope the total will be less than Europarts' kit.

With my dealings with Rockauto I have been impressed with them, but you have to do your homework and able to make accurate inferences. You cannot relying on their system to assure the part you choose is for the vehicle you choose on their site.
 
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OldWest

2004 T1N Westfalia
Be interesting to see.what you find.

Just a general FYI, there's a link from Bridgestone comparing organic to metallic to ceramic (Europarts-SD has the Brembo ceramic ones).

https://www.bridgestonetire.com/tread-and-trend/drivers-ed/ceramic-vs-metallic-brake-pads

From the Bridgestone and other websites, it seems that ceramic pads don't dissipate heat as well as metallic but are generally less dusty and quieter. Also, ceramic pads don't work as well in colder climates. As Westies are heavy and may do mountain touring, metallic may be better bet???

Some other link.

https://www.autoanything.com/resources/what-are-the-best-brake-pads-ceramic-or-semi-metallic/


On the Europarts-SD.com, you can call or email them for info. They have Meyle rotors as standalone parts so they may use Meyle rotors in their kits (the 15" kit says Meyle rotors but the 16" kit does not speciify). The Type A wear sensor is sold alone and described as aftermarket European with no name. Their Type B sensor is BOWA Germany but all pads from Europarts use the Type A.

On this thread, a poster called Europarts to get the DOT friction ratings of the pads.

https://sprinter-source.com/forum/showthread.php?t=77192&highlight=Brake+pads+rotors

Another thread re friction ratings.

https://sprinter-source.com/forum/showthread.php?t=72307&highlight=Brake+pads+rotors
 
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Mein Sprinter

Known member
Since we are on the topic, a tip from Dr. A: do not use the transmission as your brakes. Maintaining speed on decent is okay within reason, but don’t use the tranny to actually slow yourself down. Give it some help here and there with brakes (especially in Colorado). Brakes are way cheaper than transmissions and they are long lasting on the Sprinter T1N.
Hasten to agree with Dr. A: occasionally we brake first then down shift and hold speed on a serious descent. All front and rear Brake pads/rotors were replaced at 89,000 miles just to be save as were going on a 7,000 mile excursion into the Canadian NW territories. Parts were form Europarts-SD. Cost less than $600.

cheers
 

autocamp

un-Airstream'ed & un-Dodged NAFTA JC
For vehicles like our James Cook, my preference and rationale is to stick with metallic pads. Most ceramic pads are developed for selling up market for those who are bothered by brake dust. I want a set of HD pads so I am leaning towards Raybestos. Raybestos is probably one of the largest OEM and aftermarket brake manufacturer. They cover everything from the lowest price utility parts and friction material to racing where a lot of big name specialty brands source their products from them and just rebrand as their own. The company also make brake products for HD transportations. All you need to do is to go download their full catalog.

Here are what I have so far in the shopping cart, subjects to due deligence that I didn't screw up in my inference. The cart includes a trailer hitch connector that is $30, so I am ahead over the Europarts kit and the pads are HD metallic.



Very often brake parts like those used in the Sprinters are generic commodities. German brands often mean squat nowadays.

I rather not waste time calling Europarts. All I need to do is to read the text in the kit very carefully and I can expect the answers that I'll likely receive. They put together these kits and crafted the text to lead you to infer the rotors too are Meyle. All you need to do is go to Rockauto and see for yourself the range of very inexpensive rotors and pads that you can get. You can spent as little as $65 a set for the front and rear less, if you choose.

On whether if you should use the transmission for braking descent. It is a no brainer. It is all about thermal considerations. When you use a slush box to help braking you have to be aware of overheating the ATF and this has a lot to do with if the said vehicle has adequate ATF cooling to dissipate the huge amount of thermal energy. I will not use the transmission for braking unless it is the last resort. Our James Cook has so much air resistance that I never find the brakes being inadequate. I could barely break 65 MPH on most steepest hill descent without the need to touch the brake pedal. When I did it was because of the idiot in front that passed me on the straight and get in my way in turns.
 
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Kiltym

Active member
I am about to replace the brakes on our Westy as well. We only have 70k on our Westy, but the rear rotors are very pitted, and on steep grades, get a pretty unnerving pulsing sound so figure it's time to just replace them all.

Here is what I am ordering:

Zimmermann Z-Coat Front Rotors: 400647520 ($42/each)
https://www.eeuroparts.com/Parts/443111/Disc-Brake-Rotor-400647520/

Zimmermann Z-Coar Rear Rotors: 400646920 ($34/each)
https://www.eeuroparts.com/Parts/183979/Disc-Brake-Rotor-Rear-272mm-400646920/

Brembo Ceramic front pads: P50088N ($52)
https://www.newparts.com/product/br...500-ceramic-disc-brake-pad-set-brembo-p50088n

Brembo Ceramic rear pads: P50089N ($40)
https://www.newparts.com/product/p5...isc-brake-pad-set-brembo-ceramic-with-sensors


Bowa Pin-type wear sensors for front pads: A098004 ($3/each)
https://www.eeuroparts.com/Parts/445969/Disc-Brake-Pad-Wear-Sensor-Rear-A098004/

Rear pads come with sensors.

Total cost, with shipping, $263.....

Zimmermann are very good rotors, as are Brembo pads.... Seems like the best deal I could find on quality parts. Half the price of many other retailers.
 
D

Deleted member 50714

Guest
Driving habits

I can almost get by without using my brakes city driving by simply moderating or adjusting speed with the traffic lights ahead. If the light is red, I began to coast (in gear). I also stay to the right and allow of the rest of the herd to pass. One reason is to allow the herd to trigger the traffic light ahead to change to green. The goal is to conserve energy by maintaining forward momentum as much as practicable. This is in contrast to how most drivers race up to the next red light and text while waiting.

I drove a 1987 Isuzu Pup for 13-years, (100,000 plus miles) and the brakes still had 50% pad life remaining. The reason why I was looking at them is because my brother-in-law borrowed the truck and was driving around with the emergency brake on and the shoes welded to the drum.:bash:
 
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Kiltym

Active member
Just to add some more data points.

I ended up going with semi-metallic pads after additional research. Based on the weight we are carrying around, it seems they are a better option for the Westy over ceramic.

That being said, I first ordered Pagid pads (front: 355005391, rear: 355014401) that another Sprinter owner used, and said had good ratings. However, when I received them, they were not rated as advertised. The rears were "GF", which is very good, and the fronts were "FE", which is not as good. I returned them as I wanted minimum of FF on all pads.

I have since ordered front and rear Raybestos pads, with the following part #'s. They should arrive later this week and will post and update once they are installed.

Front: SP1136TR $41
Rear: SP1006TR $47

These are their specialty truck pads, and when I called in, both the front and rear are rated at "FF", which is what I wanted.

I also looked at ATE pads, which also seemed like a good option, all rated at FF (Front: 355014401, Rear: ATE: 607084), but they were more $$ then the Raybestos.
 

autocamp

un-Airstream'ed & un-Dodged NAFTA JC
I thought rotors and pads are changed together?
That is common sense, but common sense is all too uncommon, I'd like to say. :lol:

I used to subscribe to the common sense that you should always change both, until I spent a lot of time at the track. Guess what? The track experience turn a lot of these common senses upside down. Like most things in life, there are difference levels of understandings, and the best is not to be too dogmatic. There will always be very surprising exceptions. Not just that I realized I can change pads while keeping the not so expired rotors, I would realize too always bedding your pads properly is often another dogma.

If your rotors are not badly grooved but still have plenty of life left, there is no reason you cannot use them with new pads. A bit of common sense goes a long way. Just beware that your brakes are discounted in stopping power until you wear the pads in. That is that the pads' friction surfaces confirms to the uneven surfaces of the used rotors.

I have gone nowhere with my planned brake parts order as I did a quick and dirty check of the front brakes. I cannot see the amount of friction material left even with a borescope. Short of taking the wheels off to check I crawled under and inspected the condition of the rotors. There are hardly worn so I infer the pads should have plenty of life left. I think I am OK for another 25k miles at least.
 

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