Sprinter-Forum    
 

Go Back   Sprinter-Forum > T1N Sprinters > T1N Write-Ups

T1N Write-Ups Help other T1N owners by posting your experience working on your Sprinter.


 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-04-2019, 05:14 PM   #1
Aqua Puttana
Poly - Thread Finder
 
Aqua Puttana's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: The Falls of Niagara, USA
Posts: 24,336
Thanks: 12,382
Thanked 13,615 Times in 8,647 Posts
Default Rusty Rear Brake Back Plate Hack

Of course the real repair is to replace the rusting back plate. That involves pulling the axle assembly. Pressing off the bearing and seal, replacing the back plate and re-assembly with new bearing and seal/gasket. Not an easy task.

For some reason the rear back plates on the 2006 are rusted more than any other part of the truck. It was a medical transport van in previous life. I wonder if it was regularly parked where the rear wheels were over water or maybe even something corrosive. I'll never know.

Anyway, I replaced the parking brake shoes. The bottom back plate section locally rusted to the point that when I tried to hook in the parking shoe retaining spring, the hook wouldn't catch enough to be stable. What a pain.

My solution? A short flat piece of solid monel baling wire inserted to hold the hook. I had my son push the spring into place so I could insert the solid wire. The wire captured the hook and distributed the stress across the good metal. The parking shoe is retained as designed. Problem solved.

The parking brake rub points and other more critical pieces are intact. I brushed grease around on the sheet metal to stabilize the deterioration. I'll keep my eyes on those parts. My hope is to not need to replace the back plates. It's a bit of a project.

vic

Back plate part numbers are near the bottom here:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aqua Puttana View Post
First. To help with Bill's history.

Back plate Discussion.
Changing backing plates
https://sprinter-source.com/forum/sh...ad.php?t=78243

Some pictures of Bill's rusted to nothin' back plate. (The pictures aren't posted to Sprinter-source so may disappear.)

Re: Wheel sensor/wheel spin CEL/Codes
https://sprinter-source.com/forum/sh...261#post792261

My opinion.

The Sprinter mechanical brakes are designed as a Parking Brake, not an Emergency Brake. Just look at the size of the mechanical brake shoes. They may be equal in surface area to what the much lighter duty than any Sprinter, VW Type 2 Wagon service brake rear shoes. Maybe Type 2 shoes were even larger vs the Sprinter parking shoes? That is why Sprinters have so much trouble passing MOT in the UK. It is not an "Emergency Brake" and is not named such by MB. Isn't that what the separated hydraulic systems are for?

As a practical matter unless the mechanical brake system is maintained to 100% operation, it likely won't do much to facilitate an emergency stop. It will at best slow you to a stop eventually.

Anyone who questions my observation should try stopping their Sprinter using the Parking Brake only. Be certain to have lots of open space ahead.

...

Added2:
Back plate. Not parking brake.
The back plate does protect against stones or other debris getting caught in the rotor/pad assembly. It probably shields against large volumes of water affecting braking ability, but that should be researched. The opposite open side of the rotor is guarded by the wheel.

Back Plates

https://europarts-sd.com/item.asp?cID=99&PID=3777
https://europarts-sd.com/item.asp?cID=99&PID=3778
__________________
DAD NAS (N. Amer. Spec) 2004 140 2500 >330,000+ mi. Arctic Whitewash Brush-tone Grey
2006 Freightliner 140 2500HC >183,000+ mi. Arctic Whitewash (Spotted Snow Leopard accents)
"My opinion and worth everything you'll never pay for it." assumed.
Anyone can hold the helm when the sea is calm. Publilius Syrus
"There are only 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't." HaWiiLuVeR
16 ounces of unnecessary prevention can be worth a pound of manure.

Last edited by Aqua Puttana; 08-05-2019 at 07:10 PM.
Aqua Puttana is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2019, 05:25 PM   #2
marklg
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Arizona Desert
Posts: 563
Thanks: 104
Thanked 232 Times in 184 Posts
Default Re: Rusty Rear Brake Back Plate Hack

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aqua Puttana View Post
Of course the real repair is to replace the rusting back plate. That involves pulling the axle assembly. Pressing off the bearing and seal, replacing the back plate and re-assembly with new bearing and seal/gasket. Not an easy task.

For some reason the rear back plates on the 2006 are rusted more than any other part of the truck. It was a medical transport van in previous life. I wonder if it was regularly parked where the rear wheels were over water or maybe even something corrosive. I'll never know.

Anyway, I replaced the parking brake shoes. The bottom back plate section locally rusted to the point that when I tried to hook in the parking shoe retaining spring, the hook wouldn't catch enough to be stable. What a pain.

My solution? A short piece of solid monel baling wire inserted into the hook. I had my son push the spring into place so I could insert the solid wire. The wire captured the hook and distributed the stress across the good metal. The parking shoe is retained as designed. Problem solved.

The parking brake rub points and other more critical pieces are intact. I brushed grease around on the sheet metal to stabilize the deterioration. I'll keep my eyes on those parts. My hope is to not need to replace the back plates. It's a bit of a project.

vic
I hope that works. I did a brake job a few months ago. There was not much rust, except on the old rotors. I got new Zimmermann rotors and Pagid pads along with new e-brake springs and adjusters and new shoes. When I put everything together, the shoes dragged on the rotors no matter what I did. I wound up using the old shoes. Everything worked fine after that and there was no dragging.

A few months later the vehicle was in the dealer for rear end noise, which was differential bearings that they did not diagnose and I got fixed elsewhere. They told me the rear brakes were dragging and replaced everything again with Mercedes parts. The rear brake pads were clearly separated. They could not explain what or why it had happened except that "the e-brake springs were backward". The cost was atronomical, basically $1500 for a brake job. The real repair for the noise cost me another $775 for parts from Europarts-SD and a rebuild in a differential shop.

Long story short, I hope that the spring not being quite right does not cause something similar with your brakes. I did not expect it to be so critical, but something happened.

Could you get something welded on to support it? Just throwing ideas out there.

Regards,

Mark
marklg is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to marklg For This Useful Post:
Aqua Puttana (08-04-2019)
Old 08-04-2019, 06:10 PM   #3
Aqua Puttana
Poly - Thread Finder
 
Aqua Puttana's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: The Falls of Niagara, USA
Posts: 24,336
Thanks: 12,382
Thanked 13,615 Times in 8,647 Posts
Default Re: Rusty Rear Brake Back Plate Hack

Quote:
Originally Posted by marklg View Post
...

Long story short, I hope that the spring not being quite right does not cause something similar with your brakes. I did not expect it to be so critical, but something happened.

Could you get something welded on to support it? Just throwing ideas out there.

Regards,

Mark
No dragging or other problems with fit of the shoes/parts. The keeper spring is properly centered because the shape of the metal holds the wire in the original position.

The Wagner parking brake shoes I used fit fine. I often snap pictures before disassembly. That helps to get parts back where they belong.
Small slots on cable adjuster, larger slots against star adjuster.The longer, lighter stretch spring belongs on the star adjuster end. The shorter, heavy spring on the cable actuator end.

Wagner Z866

Bar code
LPN RR 68429 0600

I reused the removed hardware (springs, adjuster). I believe it was/is factory.

vic
__________________
DAD NAS (N. Amer. Spec) 2004 140 2500 >330,000+ mi. Arctic Whitewash Brush-tone Grey
2006 Freightliner 140 2500HC >183,000+ mi. Arctic Whitewash (Spotted Snow Leopard accents)
"My opinion and worth everything you'll never pay for it." assumed.
Anyone can hold the helm when the sea is calm. Publilius Syrus
"There are only 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't." HaWiiLuVeR
16 ounces of unnecessary prevention can be worth a pound of manure.

Last edited by Aqua Puttana; 08-06-2019 at 01:17 PM.
Aqua Puttana is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2019, 06:33 PM   #4
marklg
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Arizona Desert
Posts: 563
Thanks: 104
Thanked 232 Times in 184 Posts
Default Re: Rusty Rear Brake Back Plate Hack

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aqua Puttana View Post
No dragging or other problems with fit of the shoes/parts. The keeper spring is properly centered because the shape of the metal holds the wire in the original position.

The Wagner parking brake shoes I used fit fine. I often snap pictures before disassembly. That helps to get parts back where they belong.

Wagner Z866

Bar code
LPN RR 68429 0600

I reused the removed hardware (springs, adjuster). I believe it was/is factory.

vic
The shoes I tried were Meyle but in light of the separated pads, maybe the rotors had a dimensional issue. No one has been able to provide a reasonable explanation as to why the brakes would be fine when installed and start dragging months later. They did not say the calipers had any issue. The Mercedes parts do fit and work fine. When I adjusted the wheel sensors I took more pictures and even took a video with both wheels spinning freely to prove they were not dragging.

Regards,

Mark
marklg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2019, 08:01 PM   #5
Aqua Puttana
Poly - Thread Finder
 
Aqua Puttana's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: The Falls of Niagara, USA
Posts: 24,336
Thanks: 12,382
Thanked 13,615 Times in 8,647 Posts
Default Re: Rusty Rear Brake Back Plate Hack

Quote:
Originally Posted by marklg View Post
The shoes I tried were Meyle but in light of the separated pads, maybe the rotors had a dimensional issue. ...
Could be the rotor/drum.
My right wheel showed signs of uneven contact with the rotor surface. I suspect the caliper hung up. The pads/calipers/rotors/etc. had been all changed out about 3 years/30k miles ago. So for this time I went cheap on this single rotor figuring it will last until both sides need pads/rotors again.

Rebuilt NAPA caliper, Durago rotor.
Rotor selected for short term, not quality.
https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B001BFLN4A


Quote:
Originally Posted by marklg View Post
No one has been able to provide a reasonable explanation as to why the brakes would be fine when installed and start dragging months later. They did not say the calipers had any issue. The Mercedes parts do fit and work fine. When I adjusted the wheel sensors I took more pictures and even took a video with both wheels spinning freely to prove they were not dragging.

Regards,

Mark
Which brakes dragging after months?
Parking brakes? If yes, my suspect would be the brake cable combiner. They rust and can hang up and cause drag.

I grease mine periodically.

https://sprinter-source.com/forum/sh...5765#post95765

vic
__________________
DAD NAS (N. Amer. Spec) 2004 140 2500 >330,000+ mi. Arctic Whitewash Brush-tone Grey
2006 Freightliner 140 2500HC >183,000+ mi. Arctic Whitewash (Spotted Snow Leopard accents)
"My opinion and worth everything you'll never pay for it." assumed.
Anyone can hold the helm when the sea is calm. Publilius Syrus
"There are only 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't." HaWiiLuVeR
16 ounces of unnecessary prevention can be worth a pound of manure.

Last edited by Aqua Puttana; 08-04-2019 at 08:07 PM.
Aqua Puttana is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2019, 10:37 PM   #6
marklg
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Arizona Desert
Posts: 563
Thanks: 104
Thanked 232 Times in 184 Posts
Default Re: Rusty Rear Brake Back Plate Hack

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aqua Puttana View Post
Could be the rotor/drum.
My right wheel showed signs of uneven contact with the rotor surface. I suspect the caliper hung up. The pads/calipers/rotors/etc. had been all changed out about 3 years/30k miles ago. So for this time I went cheap on this single rotor figuring it will last until both sides need pads/rotors again.

Rebuilt NAPA caliper, Durago rotor.
Rotor selected for short term, not quality.
https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B001BFLN4A



Which brakes dragging after months?
Parking brakes? If yes, my suspect would be the brake cable combiner. They rust and can hang up and cause drag.

I grease mine periodically.

https://sprinter-source.com/forum/sh...5765#post95765

vic

They were somewhat ambiguous. The emergency brakes were dragging and the combiner was bent, which they straightened out, so maybe I hit something on the road. Rust doesn't grow that much in a few months here. The pads were dragging too, causing separation, but the calipers are OK, so I don't know about that. Since the rotors had issues from the start, maybe they were out of tolerance inside, but I have no way to tell.

I'll just have to be more careful in the future and start any planned maintenance in the fall when it just turns cooler here so I am not up against a deadline before a planned trip.

Regards,

Mark
marklg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2019, 03:38 PM   #7
Aqua Puttana
Poly - Thread Finder
 
Aqua Puttana's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: The Falls of Niagara, USA
Posts: 24,336
Thanks: 12,382
Thanked 13,615 Times in 8,647 Posts
Default Re: Rusty Rear Brake Back Plate Hack

Quote:
Originally Posted by marklg View Post
... They were somewhat ambiguous. The emergency brakes were dragging and the combiner was bent, which they straightened out, so maybe I hit something on the road.
...
Mark
That could do it.

Another rusty brake system hack.

In their infinite wisdom MB decided that the Brake Wear Sensor connector body needed a brass insert because a plastic body wouldn't be good enough. The connector could be held just fine with a hole in the plastic alone. The brass insert corrodes to the steel bolt.

I was able to remove the connector by spinning the insert within the plastic. That didn't work for reinstall. I used a 10 mm nut on the bolt threaded end to protect the threads while I used a 10 mm deep socket on the opposite side to drive the bolt out of the brass insert.

On a previous brake job the bolt was destroyed so I used a 10-32 brass bolt and nut as a replacement. Rather than reinstall the OEM bolt and risk another seizing situation, this time I just used a 10-24 ss bolt/nut to fasten the connector in place. Stainless steel bolts are common for my boat repairs. A plated steel bolt/nut would work fine.

No future problems with a seized bolt. If the 10-32 or 10-24 bolt/nut seizes it can easily be broken by twisting off.

vic
__________________
DAD NAS (N. Amer. Spec) 2004 140 2500 >330,000+ mi. Arctic Whitewash Brush-tone Grey
2006 Freightliner 140 2500HC >183,000+ mi. Arctic Whitewash (Spotted Snow Leopard accents)
"My opinion and worth everything you'll never pay for it." assumed.
Anyone can hold the helm when the sea is calm. Publilius Syrus
"There are only 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't." HaWiiLuVeR
16 ounces of unnecessary prevention can be worth a pound of manure.

Last edited by Aqua Puttana; 08-06-2019 at 01:32 AM.
Aqua Puttana is offline   Reply With Quote

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT. The time now is 05:24 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.