2005 T1N EGR removal/clean, plus additional stripped manifold fun

[jlf1200]

2005 T1N 2500 2.7L, 175k mi, I purchased last year at 165k mi.

My van started experiencing decreasing power this Spring, as well as a strange turbo "cyclical rise and fall" during sustained driving. At one point I experienced a brief LHM event. Before taking it in I decided to address the obvious stuff on my own. Replaced the fuel filter and then set to pulling the EGR for a cleaning.

(Aside-- I know the question has been posed on the forum as to whether 2004 and later T1Ns even need EGR cleaning, as the newer design is supposedly "self cleaning." Foster at Upscale Automotive in Tualatin confirmed that both the fuel filter and the EGR would be part of any initial work done to address my symptoms).

Tools Required

• #10 star socket
• ratchet
• ratchet extension (the valve doesn't permit a ratchet head near enough)
• WD-40
• light hammer or mallet
• screwdriver or box wrench to remove cooler hose from EGR, depending on your hose clamp style
• Some method of clamping the cooler hose (I used a rubber mouth french clamp)
• Foam degreaser or some other cleaner that is easy to manage
• Torque wrench
• New EGR gasket (bought mine at my local Dodge/Chrysler in Beaverton, OR)
• Anti-seize

After clamping the cooler hose about 2" from the valve and loosening the hose clamp I removed the 3 bolts that fix the EGR to the manifold. As expected, my EGR was stuck pretty well. I began gently tapping on the hose head with a tack hammer and a piece of wood to rotate the valve back and forth until its movement was obstructed (about 60 degrees). After a few times up and down it still wasn't any more willing to budge. I had to head out so I sprayed the interface with WD-40 (lightly, I didn't soak it) and let it sit for about 5 hours.

Upon return it came right out by hand! Here's what it looked like:


It was sticky but still moving. I felt like it was a bit slow in its return action. I cleaned it with foam degreaser (I was wary of letting any cleaner seep up into the motor, so foam seemed like a nice option). It cleaned up quite nicely with a brush and a rag, and the return felt snappy afterwards:


I thought I was in the clear... I put the new gasket on, mounted the EGR in the manifold and hand tightened the bolts. Then I slowly began to tighten them down evenly. At the point which they were all snug, but FAR from the 124in-lbs rated torque spec, the first bolt tore out. After I got done cursing, I decided to torque down the other two and then deal with the stripped hole. The others stripped out as well. Took me a while to calm down and stop cursing after that. Then I realized the bolts had probably seized into the manifold due to extended temp cycling and no anti-seize (thanks a lot, previous mechanic). My removal of the EGR left the threads floating in place, but re-torquing pulled the material out with ease.

This is what the threads looked like, all coiled up on the bolts:


Part II, fixing stripped manifold threads

Tools Required

• M6X1.0 tap
• box end wrench, socket or tap handle
• M6x1.0 Heliocoil kit
• Drill
• 1/4" carbide bit
• brake cleaner with straw

First step was to try to re-tap the holes. No dice-- lost way too much material when they stripped out. The tap threaded in by hand so it was obvious fairly quickly.

The only two options left were tapping for a larger bolt size, or installing Heliocoil inserts for the original bolts. I checked both M7 and 1/4" bolts on the EGR valve-- neither fit, and I wasn't interested in drilling out the valve face (and every future EGR I ever install on the van). So that left Heliocoil.

My local Napa had the M6x1.0 kit for $45. It's hard to find the kits, most auto supplies just stock the inserts. I stuffed rags in both the manifold and the coolant mouth that are left open when the EGR is removed-- you don't want metal chips going into either spot. Then I followed the exact process in this video (it even features the same M6 kit):
http://youtu.be/79IYC4L68LU

Okay, one exception: I didn't use the plastic guide. It was annoying to hold since I didn't have the socket for square head taps like the guy uses in the video. After drilling and tapping I just started the tool by hand and used a wrench to drive it in (sorry this image is rotated and I wasn't able to get the host to fix it):


Here's how they looked once installed:


The install took about 90 mins. I went reaaaaallly slow with the drill, triple measuring the depth and taping the bit. Too shallow and your insert won't drop in, and you'll be forced to trim hardened steel springs, too deep and, well, you're drilling too deep into your manifold, which isn't a good idea.

The EGR installed perfectly. All the bolts were given anti-seize and torqued to spec. And wouldn't you know it... my strange engine performance and turbo behavior didn't improve whatsoever! But at least I handled a job that, I'm sure, Upscale wouldn't have wanted and I wouldn't have wanted to pay for.

[ritakens]

Still trying to remove frozen egr from my 2005 sprinter. Tapped it, banged it, Tried to move with vice grips, used Super Creep, Kroil, Used torch to heat it up, still won't budge Been doing this about a week now and no luck.
Any help would be appreciated.

[Luc]

Originally Posted by ritakens

Still trying to remove frozen egr from my 2005 sprinter. Tapped it, banged it, Tried to move with vice grips, used Super Creep, Kroil, Used torch to heat it up, still won't budge Been doing this about a week now and no luck.
Any help would be appreciated.

Have a look in the general T1N section I started a thread for that a while back, and just recently a few good posts were added to that thread.

Good luck! (I haven't been able to remove mine as of yet. I decided to leave it alone until I gave me problems)

[RunSprocketRun]

Originally Posted by jlf1200

2005 T1N 2500 2.7L, 175k mi, I purchased last year at 165k mi.

<snip>

At the point which they were all snug, but FAR from the 124in-lbs rated torque spec, the first bolt tore out.
<snip>

Hey jlf,

I'm replacing the EGR valve on my 2005 Dodge-badged 3500 Cab & Chassis. In the process of removing the EGR (using a 4" section of 2x4 and 12 oz. ball peen hammer at choice locations) I discovered that the threads for the longest of the 3 bolts had been stripped. Yes, I removed the bolts before beginning my percussive maintenance ;-). The previous person who worked on the EGR stripped the hole then slid a beer can shim along the side to give the bolt something to grip to. Not at the prescribed torque, which explains the gobs of high-temp RTV silicone complimenting the metal gasket.

So then I, too, went though the process of drilling the hole oversize then adding a generic heli-coil. Not wanting to repeat the strip-tease performance, I've been trying to validate the correct torque value for the EGR to Intake bolts.

I have a T1N service manual that I purchased off eBay before I knew this forum existed. The manual is named Sprinter Service Manual 2004-2006. On page 9-15 (under the Engine Installation section) there is an applicable torque specification chart. According to it the "Nut-EGR Valve") should be tightened to 80 inch lbs.

In addition to your hypothesis about heat cycles freezing the bolts into place (as we all know happens especially with exhaust components), adding an extra 44 inch lbs (150% of what my manual says) might help explain why the original aluminum threads in your intake manifold jumped ship.

In the Introduction section of my manual there is a Torque References section. It lists generic torque values for each combination of class/diameter/head-type used by Mercedes.

It lists the max torque for a class 6T hex-head flange bolt 6mm bolt at 78 in. lbs.

For a class 7T flange bolt it's listed at 9 ft. lbs. (108 inch lbs).

Confusing for sure. For now I'm going to use lots of Loc-Tite and torque them to 50 inch lbs. If any coolant leaks out I'll increase by 5 inch lbs until it stops weeping. If I get close to 80 inch lbs I'll stack some gaskets I made from aluminum roof flashing to act as a "crush washer".

And please understand that no portion of the above is meant as criticism. I've ruined over $1,000 in parts during my learning curve of working on van. Given that I paid $9,500 for it last summer, that's an ouch factor for sure.

-Corry-

[Aqua Puttana]

Thanks for the input.

Originally Posted by jlf1200

...

(Aside-- I know the question has been posed on the forum as to whether 2004 and later T1Ns even need EGR cleaning, as the newer design is supposedly "self cleaning." Foster at Upscale Automotive in Tualatin confirmed that both the fuel filter and the EGR would be part of any initial work done to address my symptoms).

...

For clarification.

The OM647 engine does have an EGR self clean cycle included with the engine shutdown. That, and a different valve design, makes the EGR more reliable vs the previous design OM612 EGR. The OM612 EGR service life almost requires periodic cleaning to extend the service life. The OM647 doesn't require periodic cleaning to extend the service life, but it may at some point respond to removal and cleaning if operating issues are encountered with the OM647 engine.

The OM647 EGR is more reliable vs the OM612 EGR, but either can develop problems which will affect engine operation.

vic