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Old 12-07-2018, 05:04 PM   #21
Cheyenne
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Default Re: Purchasing a 2002 High Top that doesn't start

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Originally Posted by surlyoldbill View Post
First thing is to change the fuel filter, regardless.
TIP:

Fill the new filter with fresh Diesel until it will take no more, this may take ten to fifteen minutes of pouring and waiting.

Then when you crank the engine you should get fuel to the rail fairly quickly rather than have to wait while you fill the new filter.

Keith.

PS This tip only really applies to the 02 - 03 MY as the 04 on's have an in-tank electric pump and the ignition can be cycled to fill the filter.
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JSL (12-19-2018)
Old 12-19-2018, 08:21 PM   #22
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Default Re: Purchasing a 2002 High Top that doesn't start

@surlyoldbill -

is your statement "Cranking and the RPM gauge moving = good crank sensor" true in the negative?

i.e., cranking and RPM gauge NOT moving = BAD crank sensor?
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Old 12-19-2018, 10:20 PM   #23
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Default Re: Purchasing a 2002 High Top that doesn't start

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Originally Posted by JSL View Post
@surlyoldbill -

is your statement "Cranking and the RPM gauge moving = good crank sensor" true in the negative?

i.e., cranking and RPM gauge NOT moving = BAD crank sensor?
Not moving certainly puts the CPS in the crosshairs.
It’s a relatively cheap part, and (often) quick to change.

-dave

(first step is still to confirm sufficient rail pressure with a scanner... look it up, but 2,900 psi comes to mind as a minimum before the ecu will fire injectors)

Last edited by Nautamaran; 12-19-2018 at 10:24 PM.
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Old 01-03-2019, 03:14 AM   #24
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Default Re: Purchasing a 2002 High Top that doesn't start

Hey Ya'll,

Checking back in. Still working on the crank/no start issue. After 10-15 seconds of cranking, I hear 4 distinct beeps and the dash lights flash. This is my main query. Below I'm going to mention some other "updates" or symptoms that might also matter, because I'm not sure which things might be related to this.


* We got an icarsoft, it wouldn't communicate with the OBD. We sent it back, awaiting an Autel. We really REALLY want to check rail pressure. It DID give some codes under the "Sprinter" heading. We don't know for how long those codes have been stored in there.

* Voltage and Grounds checked on the OBD port

* All fuses healthy

* OBD socket had pins in #5 (a ground) pushed far up to the top. We got it to look normal (both pins separate) but still not sure it's back to working order. It reads 0 volts on the multimeter, but it's a ground pin, so that's expected.

* This vehicle was a fleet vehicle and some wiring stuff looks weeeeeird. Some of the wiring is gnarly and spliced poorly. All lines going from glow plugs to module have been spliced (WHY?). It's a newer model and some of the wires were dangling. I believe this is why the "glow plug module" code was thrown. Fixed all that.

*The high-voltage fuse box is spliced into the copper wire coming from the positive battery terminal. It is really loose. Is this for real?

*There is a green+blue line (maybe 12 gauge) originating at one of the ECU sensors, that is in a bundle through the firewall, but then pulled from the bundle about in-line horizontally with the alternator, and re-routed (??) to the alternator. I can't tell what's stock and what's not. Either way, that was also spliced poorly. It didn't seem to make a difference when we cranked with and without these lines spliced in properly. Still unsure what this line does, I can't find it in the manual. It seems the only blue/green line going to the ECU is the TPS. This is not that. However I don't read wiring diagrams well. Could be wrong.

* The van doesn't understand when the key is out of the ignition (I think). When you open the passenger side door, the beeping sound happens - as if the van thinks the key is still in the ignition. Additionally, I can pull the key out of the ignition from the "on" position. Sometimes the beeping will stop when I fiddle with the dome light.

*I saw a small pile of sawdust (maybe 1-2 in in diameter) with some mouse droppings, under the hood, at the firewall. Can't find any other traces of mice, but for sure one/some were there for a short time.

*Once every five or ten times (potentially increasing in frequency, hard to tell just yet) when I turn the key, NOTHING happens. All I have to do is turn it off, and then turn it directly back on, and the dash lights up/it cranks. (It does not start)

* When you press the "unlock" button on the key, the headlights flash, but the FOB does not lock or unlock the doors.

*Sometimes, the RPM moves only when you turn the key from "off" to "accessory" (just a tiny bit). Sometimes the RPM moves also (just a tiny bit) during cranking. Also this may be user-error in eyesight and/or blindness from staring for too long at forums

* Did the in-line fuse test and all glow plugs checked out A-OK

* Did the Injector Leak-off test, no fuel is coming up through the injectors. None. On the first crank, fuel was coming out of the fuel line, and I realized it wasn't clamped down enough. After that, we saw air in the lines when we hadn't before. No fuel came through after that. Not sure if that is correlation or causation.

Again, my main question is about the beeps and the lights flashing. However, I'll take whatever I can get from anyone who has any idea about which pieces are related to one another! This will get easier when we get a code reader that works....

Last edited by JSL; 01-03-2019 at 03:28 AM.
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Old 01-03-2019, 04:59 AM   #25
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Default Re: Purchasing a 2002 High Top that doesn't start

Zero leak off at injectors suggests a lack of prime at LP fuel pump or HP relief solenoid (back end of rail) failed open.
Cracking the metal fuel line between the HP pump and the rail open 1/2 a turn will allow you to confirm fuel is reaching the pump... wrap a rag around it before you crank. There is a separate leak-down procedure for the relief solenoid.

-dave
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Old 01-03-2019, 01:02 PM   #26
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Default Re: Purchasing a 2002 High Top that doesn't start

Thanks Dave. We had fuel coming out of injectors #1 and #5 at the beginning of the week, but after we did the injector test (and the fuel line wasn't clamped all the way) something has changed and now no fuel is coming out at any of the injectors. Or at least that's the best explanation I have for it. It may have been something else that I didn't even realize.

I will look for the leak-down procedure for the solenoid and start exploring how far the fuel is reaching.

One other thing - it seems right now that the fuel is circulating with those air bubbles. i.e., sometimes I can see them, and sometimes I can't. So to me it seems like we are NOT continuously sucking air... but I really don't know. And since I don't know what I did to put air in the lines (although I realize this is a common problem, and could be unrelated, we didn't have this problem 2 days ago) just wondering...is there any danger of sucking more air due to any of these leak off tests?
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Old 01-03-2019, 03:32 PM   #27
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Default Re: Purchasing a 2002 High Top that doesn't start

I would check every inch of engine harness, especially near fuel filter. If some wires is chafed, your scanner will not communicate with ECM. Happened to my van. And multiple codes after if for some reason it will do communicate.
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Old 01-03-2019, 04:16 PM   #28
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Default Re: Purchasing a 2002 High Top that doesn't start

2002-3 air in the fuel lines.

https://sprinter-source.com/forum/sh...in+fuel+filter

bill in tomahawk
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Old 01-03-2019, 05:00 PM   #29
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Default Re: Purchasing a 2002 High Top that doesn't start

Fuel lubricates the HP pump, so running it completely dry will eventually cause problems, but some air isn’t a problem... a pita, but not damaging.

The return line goes back to the tank via the thermostatic bypass valve on the top of the filter, so if the valve is stuck open (fuel preheat mode) then the air bubbles can recirculate. The valve is designed to pass any air back towards the fuel tank, but needs sufficient fuel flow to do so. This can exasperate priming issues.

Oilburner’s suggestion to inspect the electrical harness is a good one. Chafe-through under the fuel filter bracket has been discussed a few times here on the forum, and any point of contact should be examined.

-dave
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Old 01-03-2019, 11:45 PM   #30
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Default Re: Purchasing a 2002 High Top that doesn't start

Hey ya'll,

Thanks for these tips. I need to get under the van to really inspect that wire bundle under the fuel filter, but that's on my list. I need to do more research on where to put jack stands. All I can see is that, indeed, the braided covers have been worn through, and that those wires (no bare wires that i can see) are covered in oil/fuel/goop.

Today we cracked the fuel line at the high pressure fuel pump. Both air and fuel came out. We were then sort able to... "walk" the fuel back to the 5th cylinder by cracking the fuel line at each injector in series, 1, then 2, then 3, then 4, then 5. Now we have fuel at injector 5 and far less air in the lines. Still can't really tell if air is being pulled in from the filter, but there's less in there now.

Will have to figure out how to check that valve on top of the fuel filter...
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