changing transmission fluid and filter on 2008 3500 nc3v

not a great start, meant to post thread as ncv3....oh well, here it is anyways

i decided to do the routine transmission service on my 2008 3500 van with 46k miles.
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i first removed the oil drain plug on the transmission pan using a heat gun on its highest setting. i couldn't budge it other wise. i drained the oil and then went after the torque converter.

there is a round cross piece that has to unbolted at the mounting brackets and can be moved forward or backwards to give a little more room to access the drain plug.i had to use a large screwdriver and pry against the outer housing to move the inner housing and turn the torque converter.i tried to turn it with the starter, but after several tries, i knew it would never happen. i finally found the drain plug and thought it couldn't be so small. i went around again and that was the only screw plug on the housing.

it is very difficult to access. i had a 4mm allen wrench and was able to remove the plug using a pair of needle nose vise grips. a better solution is a 1/4" ratchet with a swivel attachment. i cut a short piece off a 4mm allen wrench and epoxied it into a 4mm socket. it is still very tight, but you can at least use the ratchet to turn the screw without having to remove and insert after every small arc of movement you have available. it also allowed me to apply sufficient torque when tightening. i don't think i could have done so other wise.

i was surprised to find the torque converter held more oil than the pan. it was slower to drain, but i let it drain overnight so i am pretty sure i got most of the oil.

i subscribed to sprintertekinfo for a day to review the factory proceedure for a 3500 nc3v. the main difference from the 2500 is the rear transmission mount. you first support the engine by placing a piece of wood onto the cross member that sits over the front spring. remove the two rear engine suspension bolts on the transmission housing. they are attached to the rear crossmember by a rear engine mount bracket. then you can remove the cross member below the transmission. then the transmission can be lifted, under the rear engine mount, to allow room for removal of the pan.i lifted it only enough to allow room for my 1/4" ratchet to fit into the front torx screws to remove the pan.

the pan and filter came off with no issues. i had a slight accumulation of sludge on the bottom of the pan. the magnet had more, but no noticeable metal slivers. the filter has a small opening and it looked brownish and off color compared to the new filter. i felt like i was very timely on changing the oil.

i replaced the oil pan and drain screw. cross tighened the pan screws until i felt they were very snug. re mounted the crossmember below the transmission with the rear engine mount.

removed the support on the crossmember over the front spring.

bolted the rear engine mount to the rear of the transmission.

i then used a tip from the forum, thanks to aqua puttana, and fitted a 1/4" tube onto the spout from a lucas brand bottle. i used it to squirt the oil down the dipstick tube. using a dipstick from europarts i checked the oil after 7 liters and i seemed to be exactly right in the middle of the cold range.

i took it for a test drive and everything seemed fine. shifted and down shifted normal, no rumbles and everything was great. when i stepped outside the truck to recheck the oil at operating temperature i noticed a strange new noise. it wasn't a critical mechanical noise, but harmonic. i then realized i forgot to replace the rubber plug on the torque converter. all was fine after putting the plug into place.

big job, much easier with proper tools, especially a lift. i purchased a pair of ramps rated for gross vehicle weight of 10,000 lbs from northern tools. i don't think i could have done the job without them. i have jack stands, but i often find them in the way when i try to move around with the creeper.

i am hoping next time, i am more effecient and take less time to complete the job. good learning experience, but i certainly did not save any money by doing it myself. it was strictly going to school.

Great post of this job. It looks like a complete nightmare! I was planning on doing my own trans service tomorrow but I am now hesitant about doing it myself.

greg,
i didn't mean to imply it was a nightmare, but it was a weekend excursion. i also believe the 3500 is a bit more challenging because you have to remove the rear cross member from the frame and the transmission. once it is removed you can lift the transmission to get access to the hold down bolts on the front of the transmission pan. with the transmission elevated you can easily remove the pan and filter.
the torque converter was more challenging to drain. i had to remove the brackets on the anti-sway bar and pivot it out of the way to get access to the drain plug. this again might be unique to the 3500. the torque converter is fairly easy to turn with a large screwdriver leveraged against the housing to bring the drain plug into view. once in view, using the ratchet setup i showed in the write up, the plug can be removed and the oil drained.

i highly recommend subscribing for a day to http://sprintertekinfo.com. read the factory procedure for the transmission service. it gives the proper sequence of events to follow.

fishermunn said:

greg,
<snip>
the torque converter was more challenging to drain. i had to remove the brackets on the anti-sway bar and pivot it out of the way to get access to the drain plug. this again might be unique to the 3500.

<snip>

Click to expand...

I believe that this method - (re)moving the anti-sway bar and the cross-member - will provide enough clearance on the 2500 with heavy duty anti-sway, front end equipment as well. I have that equipment and it's too close of quarters to work unless you're very small and have very talented hands.

So I don't think needing to remove large hunks of metal is entirely unique to the 3500 chassis, though no one's told me in so many words that it's required.

Lifting the transmission from the cross members to disengage the pan clamp fasteners is unique to NCV3s, required and a major pain.

-Jon

I have serviced my Ford E-250 several times so after taking a long look at my transmission I have decided that I will try to complete this job myself. I understand that loosening the sway bar will allow access to the torque converter drain bolt and I have confidence that I can complete that part of the job. My question is: can I remove the transmission pan on my 08 2500 without removing the cross member? I have already put the T30 torx bit in all 6 trans pan bolts. Thanks for your help.

GregT said:

My question is: can I remove the transmission pan on my 08 2500 without removing the cross member? I have already put the T30 torx bit in all 6 trans pan bolts. Thanks for your help.

Click to expand...

Yes, you can remove the transmission pan w/o removing the cross member. What you can't do is keep the filter on the valve body while replacing the transmission pan. There isn't enough clearance; you'll knock the filter out of the valve body trying to replace the pan unless you lift the rear of the transmission a few inches from the cross forward member.

https://sprinter-source.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7001

-Jon

On the NCV3 3500's only (sorry Jon) , to remove the pan : simply remove the 2 bolts that go in from below the cross member on both sides of the mount , then place a jack and a piece of wood under the center of the mount (round bushing ) and finally jack carefully and the trans will raise off the cross member. I have never removed the cross member to service the NCV3. Lastly you can access the drain plug for the torque converter when the trans is raised (lifted) much easier that way.



Carl

sprintguy said:

On the NCV3 3500's only (sorry Jon) , to remove the pan : simply remove the 2 bolts that go in from below the cross member on both sides of the mount , then place a jack and a piece of wood under the center of the mount (round bushing ) and finally jack carefully and the trans will raise off the cross member. I have never removed the cross member to service the NCV3. Lastly you can access the drain plug for the torque converter when the trans is raised (lifted) much easier that way.
Carl

Click to expand...

Carl,

Thank YOU for the info

Although I still think that the torque converter drain plug on my 2500 is too difficult to access w/o removing something, even if it's jacking the front of the tranny/rear engine mounts.

I'd prefer just refreshing the contents of the trans pan on a regular basis - and rely on extra filtration - than deal with it on my gravel driveway.


-Jon

carl,
thanks! it will be much easier to do it the way you described. i followed the instructions posted on the sprintertekinfo site. i see what you are describing to be a better solution.
one question, do you still have to support the engine under the front cross member? i didn't see why that was necessary.
always appreciate your input.
lance

Greetings Everyone,

For those of you that are interested, we do have a trani service tool available that makes the transmission service on the NCV3 2500 or 3500 much easier. It will lift the trani 2-3” allowing the pan to be dropped down and out, easily clearing the filter. There is plenty of space to move the pan rearward for removal or to rotate it 90 degrees then down and out. It does take a few minutes to install but gives you complete unobstructed access to do the job. No cross member to remove and/or jacks or blocks of wood in the way. When we service the trani, we roll a tanker under the vehicle to catch the fluid and it requires the space under the transmission to be completely clear. The tool is $89.95 plus shipping. Hope this info helps.

Thank you, John
Sprinter Store
http://sprinterstore.com/
A division of Upscale Automotive, Inc.
19460 SW 89th Ave.
Tualatin, OR 97062
503-692-0846

a follow up to my transmission oil change:
i checked the fluid level after driving the van to operating temperature, on level ground, engine running, transmission in park, hand brake engaged. the fluid level was exactly mid way between the high temp marks. the transmission shifted smoothly and seemed to be working perfectly. then i began to notice a very slight vibration when the transmission down shifted to first gear upon stopping. i tried coming to a stop with out using the brakes and the vibration was still present. it is not anything someone would even notice, it has to be pointed out, but none the less, it wasn't there before i changed the transmission fluid.
i read an old post by sikwan describing his experience with a shudder in his van and how he checked the fluid with the transmission in drive and found the level lower than in park. following his lead, i asked my wife to put the gear selector in drive, foot on the brake and i found the level to be lower and out of the higher temp. mark. i added no more than .25 of a quart and the vibration disappeared.
does this mean the fluid level should be checked with the transmission in drive instead of park? i am not sure, but it did solve my issue.
lance

For what it is worth... I took my assigned company vehicle to American Lube Fast for a transmission flush. Here is the process used by them. Suck the old trans fluid out using the fill tube. Pump in 4 qts of fresh fluid and start the vehicle. Let the trans pump the fresh fluid for 5 minutes. Suck out the 4 qts of fresh fluid. Pump in all fresh fluid to specified quantity. Call it complete.

Just something to consider when you get a "fluid flush".

Just read Jon's tranny change thread.

I have 2008 NCV3, short wheel base.

I was able to drain converter and remove/replace pan with no jacking of the transmission.

You need to remove the seal from the pan and push it into the pan, while the pan is pretty much still in place, just a little lower. Now tilt the pan a bit and remove the filter. Leave the filter in the pan. I slid the pan toward the driver's side, while rotating 90 degrees, then drop it.

Installation is reverse. The seal needs to sit in the pan, or it won't clear. The filter needs to be plugged in with the pan mostly in place, but tilted so you can get your hand in there. After you get the filter plugged in, set the seal. The seal can't be on the pan while you are positioning the pan - it won't clear. A video would make this clearer, but I think for many just knowing it's possible and easy if you do it just right will help. I didn't force anything at any point. It's just an advanced 3D game of Tetris.

As for the converter, I thought this was pretty easy. I used a standard 4mm L shaped allen key. The thing here is body and arm positioning. One key is to grab the sway bar, now with that grip, pinch the allen key while your hand is still around the bar. Also look for ways to get your other arm over the cross member. There is slightly more clearance on the driver's side.

Tranny pan screws are easy with the right tool. I used a 1/4" wrench to turn a 1/4" T30 tip. Room to spare.

I used a larger socket and breaker bar on the front of the engine to rotate it. I recommend clockwise rotation to ensure you are not loosening the balancer bolt.

Good luck. I was expecting to do a search here and find an easier way, but there doesn't appear to be one. I would do it my way again. It took me about an hour to figure things out. I think it will go faster next time.

I also have the NCV3 and I did it exactly the same way as NBB says/said. Absolutely no need for lifting or removing anything. Ingenuity, thought and A world of tools to select from and you can do it. Figuring out the process takes time. Once you do it for the first time the second time should take you around 2 hours.

NBB said:

Just read Jon's tranny change thread.

I have 2008 NCV3, short wheel base.

I was able to drain converter and remove/replace pan with no jacking of the transmission.

You need to remove the seal from the pan and push it into the pan, while the pan is pretty much still in place, just a little lower. Now tilt the pan a bit and remove the filter. Leave the filter in the pan. I slid the pan toward the driver's side, while rotating 90 degrees, then drop it.

Installation is reverse. The seal needs to sit in the pan, or it won't clear. The filter needs to be plugged in with the pan mostly in place, but tilted so you can get your hand in there. After you get the filter plugged in, set the seal. The seal can't be on the pan while you are positioning the pan - it won't clear. A video would make this clearer, but I think for many just knowing it's possible and easy if you do it just right will help. I didn't force anything at any point. It's just an advanced 3D game of Tetris.

As for the converter, I thought this was pretty easy. I used a standard 4mm L shaped allen key. The thing here is body and arm positioning. One key is to grab the sway bar, now with that grip, pinch the allen key while your hand is still around the bar. Also look for ways to get your other arm over the cross member. There is slightly more clearance on the driver's side.

Tranny pan screws are easy with the right tool. I used a 1/4" wrench to turn a 1/4" T30 tip. Room to spare.

I used a larger socket and breaker bar on the front of the engine to rotate it. I recommend clockwise rotation to ensure you are not loosening the balancer bolt.

Good luck. I was expecting to do a search here and find an easier way, but there doesn't appear to be one. I would do it my way again. It took me about an hour to figure things out. I think it will go faster next time.

Click to expand...

Just did my 3rd drain/refill on a 2008 144 2500.

Couple notes, updates:

1) Don't forget the magnet. I changed my fluid at 30k, 60k. Forgot the magnet at 60k, so placed a very large and powerful magnet externally on the bottom of the pan. Changed again at 70k (today), external magnet seemed to work okay, but I think it's way better to have it INSIDE the pan. Done.

2) I chose to remove the cross member instead of playing transmission pan Tetris as I recommended above. I will do this in the future. Overall it is faster, easier and I think it allows you to do cleaner work. With the rear wheels up on ramps (my driveway is sloped, this basically levels the van and provides plenty of clearance underneath) I placed a jack and a block of wood under the pan and lifted slightly. I then unbolted the mount and dropped the x-member, 4 bolts each. Super fast and easy. I then took a second jack and placed it under the mount, also with a block of wood between, then I removed the jack under the pan. Everything worked pretty well. I closely read some other reports here and came to the conclusion that not everyone's transmission mount is the same, so your story might vary slightly.

3) My ninja skills with the torque converter drain are improving. I purchased a 1/4" drive bit holder and a 1/4" drive 4mm key, per some other threads here. I didn't use it. It just didn't help me. A good ol' Bondhus 4mm allen key is my tool of choice. 2 things to remember a) wrapping your hand around the sway bar and pinching the key with your fingers helps. b) with my body on the driver's side, feet pointing to the rear, I can reach up and over the x-members and access the plug really well with my right arm. You just need to crack it loose, then I was able to use my fingers the rest of the way, both in and out.

4) Plastic. I saw a few pix here of someone protecting the x-members with plastic while draining the torque converter. Good idea. I also used a large piece to protect the entire work area + a few feet under the tranmission area. Last time I did this, there was fluid everywhere, such a mess - the driveway, my cloths, my hair, it was awful. You just can't catch everything with a typical pan and still have room to work and move around. This time was different - everything stayed clean. I bundled up the plastic and stuffed it into the box the fluid came in and tossed everything. Really good idea.


Good luck,

NBB said:

Just did my 3rd drain/refill on a 2008 144 2500.

Couple notes, updates:

1) Don't forget the magnet. I changed my fluid at 30k, 60k. Forgot the magnet at 60k, so placed a very large and powerful magnet externally on the bottom of the pan. Changed again at 70k (today), external magnet seemed to work okay, but I think it's way better to have it INSIDE the pan. Done.

2) I chose to remove the cross member instead of playing transmission pan Tetris as I recommended above. I will do this in the future. Overall it is faster, easier and I think it allows you to do cleaner work. With the rear wheels up on ramps (my driveway is sloped, this basically levels the van and provides plenty of clearance underneath) I placed a jack and a block of wood under the pan and lifted slightly. I then unbolted the mount and dropped the x-member, 4 bolts each. Super fast and easy. I then took a second jack and placed it under the mount, also with a block of wood between, then I removed the jack under the pan. Everything worked pretty well. I closely read some other reports here and came to the conclusion that not everyone's transmission mount is the same, so your story might vary slightly.

3) My ninja skills with the torque converter drain are improving. I purchased a 1/4" drive bit holder and a 1/4" drive 4mm key, per some other threads here. I didn't use it. It just didn't help me. A good ol' Bondhus 4mm allen key is my tool of choice. 2 things to remember a) wrapping your hand around the sway bar and pinching the key with your fingers helps. b) with my body on the driver's side, feet pointing to the rear, I can reach up and over the x-members and access the plug really well with my right arm. You just need to crack it loose, then I was able to use my fingers the rest of the way, both in and out.

4) Plastic. I saw a few pix here of someone protecting the x-members with plastic while draining the torque converter. Good idea. I also used a large piece to protect the entire work area + a few feet under the tranmission area. Last time I did this, there was fluid everywhere, such a mess - the driveway, my cloths, my hair, it was awful. You just can't catch everything with a typical pan and still have room to work and move around. This time was different - everything stayed clean. I bundled up the plastic and stuffed it into the box the fluid came in and tossed everything. Really good idea.


Good luck,

Click to expand...

Awesome! Quick ? When you rotate the engine is it in park or neutral? Also any trick to getting dipstick cap off without breaking locking tab/pin?

Starting with a new cap and lock pin, you can look closely at the channel in the cap, into which the pin slides, and see a small nub that catches and holds the pin, when inserted. You can take a thin hot needle or nail and simply melt down this nub. Then, the pin will slide into the cap (holding the cap onto the tranny filler tube) and out of the cap intact. I have used the same cap and pin for years.

Thanks Big Time!

TRANSMISSION CAP REMOVAL WITHOUT BREAKING THE LOCKING TAB

just a tip for getting your transmission cap off without breaking the security clip.
using the bent end of a scriber slip it up under the cap with the square end of the cap up the top and gently pull the scriber towards you at the same time pull up on the locking tab.

Pic here.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...ydodgy/031.jpg

Hello,
Can you tell me how to rotate the engine/torque converter in order to line up the drain with the hole? Is there a way to easily access and rotate the crankshaft (Main) pulley with a large ratchet or some other method? Can someone post a slightly more specific answer on this?
Thank you,
Nathan