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Old 01-24-2020, 04:54 PM   #71
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Default Re: 2 inverters?

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Originally Posted by Bob Laps View Post
Man....this is complicated
I feel ya Bob.

It really isn't, if my high-efficiency KISS design principles outlined above apply to your use case, just copy and paste from my posts, maybe starting with the latest one first.

If you actually want the more mostly-AC, auto-switched inputs to wired outlets approach where all the complexity is required for safety, and different approaches for different code jursdictions

my advice is, hire a well recommended professional.
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Old 01-24-2020, 05:27 PM   #72
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Old 01-24-2020, 08:38 PM   #73
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Default Re: 2 inverters?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Laps View Post
Man....this is complicated
You are right when discussing AC distribution on a worldwide forum a mix and changing understanding can become very complicated. Simplistically there are two systems North American 60hz and the 50HZ for most metric counties and 60hz for others.

Then there are multiple interpretations, resulting in phase to neutral of 120 or 240 and phase to phase of 240 - 420 now most common, but there are others and some countries have changed. There are delta and Y configurations with ground-referenced and isolated systems and often variations within countries with historic colour code variations to identify phases neutral and ground conductors with a plethora of plug types.

Things like boats that can show up anywhere in the world from any origin with any standard of power to raise the confusion bar, so the safety and compliance issues become very complicated with many workarounds, making isolated systems the ultimate.

In Aus it is legally mandated that any connections above 50v AC wiring be signed off by an electrically qualified professional with RCD protection for high-risk circuits and we still get it wrong.

Thankfully the RV world is much more confined in travel, so it is safer to consult a local electrical professional than rely on open international forum interpretations. Imported RV's are a nightmare just like boats.

International DC implementations are thankfully less complex and fewer variations when isolated by a transformer type battery charger.
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Old 01-24-2020, 09:42 PM   #74
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Default Re: 2 inverters?

Could you link to commonly used high amp battery chargers that do not fall within that category?

What about DCDC and solar chargers (controllers), are they included?

Just wondering why that qualifier is included, as I do not see the DC charge sources as having anything to do with the consumer-device / inverter output circuits.
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Old 01-24-2020, 11:21 PM   #75
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Default Re: 2 inverters?

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Could you link to commonly used high amp battery chargers that do not fall within that category?

What about DCDC and solar chargers (controllers), are they included?

Just wondering why that qualifier is included, as I do not see the DC charge sources as having anything to do with the consumer-device / inverter output circuits.
1. No, I can not provide a link for a high current battery charge,r but with technology in switched-mode chargers moving so fast I would expect there would be chargers without complete isolation soon if not now.

2 DCDC and solar chargers are unlikely to be mains connected, although the panels that now have micro-inverters do make it a little more confusing.

3. The DC charge source is relevant if it provides primary to secondary direct connection and hense not isolated, such as an autotransformer.
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Old 01-24-2020, 11:40 PM   #76
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Default Re: 2 inverters?

I was asking about that "transformer type" qualification for battery chargers. Is that difference from "switched-mode" in any way that is relevant to the topics we are discussing?

And I just mentioned high amp output as mainstream available units, as opposed to irrelevant examples.

What is the point of "complete isolation"?

I don't think that is very common outside specialist industrial / ICT contexts.

Do you mean no "grounding" in common between input or output?

And finally, what is an "autotransformer" in this context, do you mean like 120Vac to 240Vac?

Just trying to get a handle on, if any of these topics actual pertain from a **practical** POV, within the context of my "high-efficiency KISS design" principles above.

If they are only relevant to the context of

> the more mostly-AC, auto-switched inputs to wired outlets approach where all the complexity is required for safety, and different approaches for different code jursdictions

then I will happily remain ignorant of their finer points.
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Old 01-25-2020, 01:23 AM   #77
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Default Re: 2 inverters?

I am not sure where this is going but;

>I was asking about that "transformer type" qualification for battery chargers. Is that difference from "switched-mode" in any way that is relevant to the topics we are discussing?

>And I just mentioned high amp output as mainstream available units, as opposed to irrelevant examples.
I felt a qualification was necessary to exclude battery chargers that have an electrical connection primary to secondary. Switch mode chargers are becoming commonplace even the majority of mobile phone and laptop computers now have switch mode chargers so why would there not be high current ones.

>What is the point of "complete isolation"?
Compete isolation of power sources is paramount to prevent single fault interaction.

>I don't think that is very common outside specialist industrial / ICT contexts.
Isolated power sources in the marine environment is very common to reduce the problems of Galvanic corrosion.

>Do you mean no "grounding" in common between input or output?
Grounding is a grossly misused term to imply a common connection to a frame and sometimes a connection to the earth. For safety reasons, this must be a low impedance connection

>And finally, what is an "autotransformer" in this context, do you mean like 120Vac to 240Vac?
An autotransformer is one with a connection between the input and output on one side of the primary and secondary. By definition, therefore, it does not provide isolation.

> Just trying to get a handle on, if any of these topics actual pertain from a **practical** POV, within the context of my "high-efficiency KISS design" principles above.
I wholeheartedly endorse your "high-efficiency KISS design" as it provides complete electrical isolation from shore power unless a non-isolating battery charger is used.

>If they are only relevant to the context of

> the more mostly-AC, auto-switched inputs to wired outlets approach where all the complexity is required for safety, and different approaches for different code jursdictions

>then I will happily remain ignorant of their finer points.

>The relevance to the OP question "about running 2 inverters" is when handling multiple AC power sources isolation is paramount no matter how it is achieved.
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Old 01-25-2020, 01:31 AM   #78
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Old 01-25-2020, 02:59 AM   #79
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Default Re: 2 inverters?

Just going in circles, I give up
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Old 01-25-2020, 03:05 AM   #80
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Default Re: 2 inverters?

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Just going in circles, I give up
Sorry to hear that, I hope we didn't confuse other readers about the need to keep ac power sources isolated, especially as out of phase power can be catastrophic.
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