Injector Leaking... HELP! Should I still drive it?

Happy 2020 everyone!
Wishing everyone a safe and blessing New Year!
I was all excited, because I planned a road trip from CT to Miami, stopping by Shenandoah National Park, Natural Bridge VA, Ijams Nature Center, Great Smoky Mountains National Park, Stone Mountain Park, and finally arrive Miami. (and stop by Key-West) Total Round trip should be around 3000miles.

I figured I will do a oil/filter change, and double check everything before the trip... and I found my #2 ?? Injector leaking, and I am guessing the harmonic Balancer is cracked?
this PhotoGoogle should provide the high resolution pictures: https://photos.app.goo.gl/WeM9NbjEFs4KwmjX9

1) 1st Question is, can I or should I still proceed with my road trip, and fix the injector afterward? is 3000miles too much for it?
2) 2nd Question is, is the harmonic balancer cracked? or I am just paranoid after reading all those horror post from broken harmonic balancer. I did used a mirror and inspected as much as I can, and only crack I see, I circled it in attached pic below.


Appreciate for the input guys!
FYI, 2005 Sprinter, with 180,000 miles on it, fully converted CamperVan. Bought it as 168K and did all the necessary maintenance on it since then.

Hey guys,
found this Youtube link, and hope this can help anyone else who are in similar situation like me. (beginning of an injector leaks)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zEp4GjcXy3o In the video, it is for a OM648 Engine, while ours are OM647. but the I think the procedures are the same.

Anyone has any suggestions/comments on the 2 questions from my original post above?

Hard to see where the injector leak is coming from. Looks too wet to be Black Death. Does it sound like Black Death? Injector returns are prone to leaking. So look into that.
Re balancer, looks like a surface crack, others may know more, to me could be worse. Others have driven 3000 miles with the balancer removed so you will probably be fine. Fwiw if worried order a new one so you can fix it on the road.

Looks like black tar right? That means injector seal leakage. Can be a couple hours fix if it's not stuck bad.

Check the balancer by lightly prying between the outer ring and engine at several locations around the circumference. If it moves more 1/32-1/16", its on its way out. as long as it's not severe you will be safe driving 3000 miles.

The video you linked is right on the money, EXCEPT that he doesn’t counter-hold the injector’s fuel fitting while loosening the HP fuel line from the fuel injectors.

First thing, yes that is the early stage of an injector seal leak. The extent of the lava pool will continue to grow, but if you monitor it you are unlikely to seriously damage anything in the short to medium term. Ignoring it for several months would be a mistake, but I wouldn’t panic about it, and truth be told, I’d probably take the repair parts and tools with me and fix it in the Florida sunshine. If all goes well it’s a two hour task to heat up the engine, quickly pop out the injector, clean both the bore and bolt hole of goo, assess and if required resurface the seal surfaces, then install the new seal and torque it down. There is a risk that the hold-down bolt could break or strip during the repair, but even that is relatively easy to address for #2 cylinder in the field (#5 is much harder to access...) My basic message here is don’t despair. This is a fairly routine repair.
You’ll want the right tools though:
- a claw style slide hammer to knock the injector free of the tar and lava
- a stiff wire hook to fish out the old seal if it sticks
- rags and solvent to clean the bore hole
- long cotton swabs to clean the bolt hole
- a triangular file to cut flutes down the side of the old bolt, which is then used to chase the bolt hole of debris
- more cotton swabs to clean the bolt hole of ALL debris so the old bolt can be screwed finger-tight until the head almost bottoms out on the valve cover
- a maple dowel (3/8”?) cut flat and tipped with 150 grit emery paper to hone the bottom of the bore hole, if required, and a vacuum to suck up and dust from the cylinder (thick walled PVC pipe can be cut square, a ring of emery cloth glued to the end, and the vacuum attached to the other end, so the dust is collected as you hone the bore)
(Use the new copper seal and bolt as a guide to tool size)
- a long reach torx bit (T40?) and torque wrench to turn the bolt (a small one... you’re measuring 60 INCH pounds, or 5 foot pounds, which is just past snug...)
- a pair of open end wrenches to counter-hold the injector nipple (13mm) and turn the fuel line collar (14mm)
- several 2” squares of tin foil to cover and keep all open fuel line fittings perfectly clean
- solvent to lift the lava from the injector gallery (search the forum for brands. Commercial-grade oven cleaner works nicely but it is NASTY...)
- your phone’s camera to get good images of the bottom of the injector bore. Any radial surface-erosion lines (not to be confused with the factory texture stamped into the sealing surface) need to be removed by cutting/grinding down the surrounding surface (this fact is the real risk of postponing the repair, since these lines can burn deeper into the head and become more difficult to address)

I’ve now done this repair twice on my van. My second one was caught early and only took about an hour, including lava removal and a light dressing of the seat. There are many horror stories, but with proper technique and a dose of good luck it can go very smoothly.

-dave

I'd stop by at Doktor A World Sprinter Headquarters in Clemson. It's on your way. Phone first. He'll have you sorted properly. And, he's worth it just for the education.

Nautamaran said:

First thing, yes that is the early stage of an injector seal leak. The extent of the lava pool will continue to grow, but if you monitor it you are unlikely to seriously damage anything in the short to medium term. Ignoring it for several months would be a mistake, but I wouldn’t panic about it, and truth be told, I’d probably take the repair parts and tools with me and fix it in the Florida sunshine. If all goes well it’s a two hour task to heat up the engine, quickly pop out the injector, clean both the bore and bolt hole of goo, assess and if required resurface the seal surfaces, then install the new seal and torque it down. There is a risk that the hold-down bolt could break or strip during the repair, but even that is relatively easy to address for #2 cylinder in the field (#5 is much harder to access...) My basic message here is don’t despair. This is a fairly routine repair.
You’ll want the right tools though:
- a claw style slide hammer to knock the injector free of the tar and lava
- a stiff wire hook to fish out the old seal if it sticks
- rags and solvent to clean the bore hole
- long cotton swabs to clean the bolt hole
- a triangular file to cut flutes down the side of the old bolt, which is then used to chase the bolt hole of debris
- more cotton swabs to clean the bolt hole of ALL debris so the old bolt can be screwed finger-tight until the head almost bottoms out on the valve cover
- a maple dowel (3/8”?) cut flat and tipped with 150 grit emery paper to hone the bottom of the bore hole, if required, and a vacuum to suck up and dust from the cylinder (thick walled PVC pipe can be cut square, a ring of emery cloth glued to the end, and the vacuum attached to the other end, so the dust is collected as you hone the bore)
(Use the new copper seal and bolt as a guide to tool size)
- a long reach torx bit (T30?) and torque wrench to turn the bolt (a small one... you’re measuring 60 INCH pounds, or 5 foot pounds, which is just past snug...)
- a pair of open end wrenches to counter-hold and turn the fuel line
- several 2” squares of tin foil to cover and keep all open fuel line fittings perfectly clean
- solvent to lift the lava from the injector gallery (search the forum. Commercial-grade oven cleaner works nicely but it is NASTY...)
- your phone’s camera to get good images of the injector bore. Any radial surface-erosion lines (not to be confused with the factory texture stamped into the sealing surface) need to be removed by cutting/grinding down the surrounding surface (this fact is the real risk of postponing the repair, since these lines can burn deeper into the head and become more difficult to address)

I’ve now done this repair twice on my van. My second one was caught early and only took about an hour, including lava removal. There are many horror stories, but with proper technique and a dose of good luck it can go very smoothly.

-dave

Click to expand...

Thanks Dave!
The weather here is in 30s for next few weeks before our Road trip.... So I am thinking if I can wait till afterward.

My Main concern is, if I wait 1 month (4000miles) will I need to spend more money fixing more things? and will the difficulties of removing and reinstalling become much more difficult compare to next week repair?

(BTW, I ordered the bolts and copper washer from Europarts already.

The real key is to wrench quickly on a HOT engine (as video did for cyl.#1).

The leak will erode metal. In my first repair the leak was between the seal and the injector, so I had to dress the nut that holds the injector nozzle, not the bore seat. My second repair (different cylinder) was leaking below the copper seal, and there was a fine track forming that I easily sanded out with 150 emery cloth on a wood dowel. Had I waited, the second repair would have taken a bit more effort to clean the goo and perhaps to resurface the bore seat, but the rate of erosion is usually pretty slow, and adding 5000 miles will be of little consequence. Keep tabs on the lava flow though, as this can ooze into adjacent injector wells and make cleanup more difficult. (a complete cleanup isn’t strictly necessary, though it makes it easier to spot future leaks if you’re starting from clean metal)

If Dr A. is within your budget, I’d take Glasseye’s advice and let him do it, if only to meet him in person?

-dave

Nautamaran said:

The real key is to wrench quickly on a HOT engine (as video did for cyl.#1).

The leak will erode metal. In my first repair the leak was between the seal and the injector, so I had to dress the nut that holds the injector nozzle, not the bore seat. My second repair (different cylinder) was leaking below the copper seal, and there was a fine track forming that I easily sanded out with 150 emery cloth on a wood dowel. Had I waited, the second repair would have taken a bit more effort to clean the goo and perhaps to resurface the bore seat, but the rate of erosion is usually pretty slow, and adding 5000 miles will be of little consequence. Keep tabs on the lava flow though, as this can ooze into adjacent injector wells and make cleanup more difficult. (a complete cleanup isn’t strictly necessary, though it makes it easier to spot future leaks if you’re starting from clean metal)

If Dr A. is within your budget, I’d take Glasseye’s advice and let him do it, if only to meet him in person?

-dave

Click to expand...

Thx Dave!
I will see when the Europarts shipment (bolts & washers) arrives, and if possible to do it before the roadtrip.

I am definitely on a tight budget, and my roadtrip is also to replace 4 flight tkts to Miami.

Few quick questions to prep for the work.
I bought the Permatex Anti-Seize Lubricant for my GlowPlug change, i am thinking of using it around my Injectors when install. You guys think its ok?

Since I caught the blackdeath very early, i plan to do soak the #2 injector + bolt with PB Blaster, the loosen the screw and drive the Van till it pop the #2 injector. I did read the CAUTIOUS note and post in the writeup, and want to see if you guys do recommend me to do it?
Or should I assume, since not much black lava, the #2 injectors and all other 4 injectors should be relatively easy to pull out?

Thanks guys for the valuable inputs!

I can’t comment on the Permatex, but I will say that I’m firmly in the “let sleeping dogs lie” camp when it comes to injector seals. In my opinion there is no reason to disturb the seals unless they are confirmed to be leaking with a bubble test or other evidence (lava counts ).

So in your position I would replace the one leaking seal on #2 and leave the other four alone for now, but keep the other bolts and seals handy to address any future seal failures. (I replaced cyl #3 at 155k, then #4 at 185k) There is a real risk of damaging the aluminum threads or snapping the hold down bolt, so I will avoid taking that risk without other symptoms.

(Another tip: you can see in the video that he uses a hammer to firmly tap his torx wrench into the bolt head before turning it. This is a good practice, as it can help to loosen the adhesion that can exist between the steel bolt and the aluminum threads, and doing so reduces the chance of the thread being damaged during bolt extraction.)

-dave

I did an injector seal in the parking lot of a tourist services center in New South Wales. With a hot engine I was able to remove and replace in about 2.5 hours. I didn't have a puller, but the injector was not stuck badly. I used an adjustable wrench on the body to rotate about 10 degrees back and forth, with a bit of leverage from a pry bar against the hold down hard point (NOT THE VALVE COVER). Clean up was easy enough with fine grit sandpaper, a dowel, and a couple picks.

If I was doing it again, I would coat the injector body with cold galvanizing paint (basically fine powdered zinc). To prevent corrosion.

Nautamaran said:

I can’t comment on the Permatex, but I will say that I’m firmly in the “let sleeping dogs lie” camp when it comes to injector seals. In my opinion there is no reason to disturb the seals unless they are confirmed to be leaking with a bubble test or other evidence (lava counts ).

So in your position I would replace the one leaking seal on #2 and leave the other four alone for now, but keep the other bolts and seals handy to address any future seal failures. (I replaced cyl #3 at 155k, then #4 at 185k) There is a real risk of damaging the aluminum threads or snapping the hold down bolt, so I will avoid taking that risk without other symptoms.

(Another tip: you can see in the video that he uses a hammer to firmly tap his torx wrench into the bolt head before turning it. This is a good practice, as it can help to loosen the adhesion that can exist between the steel bolt and the aluminum threads, and doing so reduces the chance of the thread being damaged during bolt extraction.)

-dave

Click to expand...

I did notice the tab of the hammer in the video, thanks for pointing it out.
I do appreciate your opinion on leaving the other injectors. I do agree and I'm seriously considering it now.
May I ask how many miles your van has now?

Midwestdrifter said:

I did an injector seal in the parking lot of a tourist services center in New South Wales. With a hot engine I was able to remove and replace in about 2.5 hours. I didn't have a puller, but the injector was not stuck badly. I used an adjustable wrench on the body to rotate about 10 degrees back and forth, with a bit of leverage from a pry bar against the hold down hard point (NOT THE VALVE COVER). Clean up was easy enough with fine grit sandpaper, a dowel, and a couple picks.

If I was doing it again, I would coat the injector body with cold galvanizing paint (basically fine powdered zinc). To prevent corrosion.

Click to expand...

That is an inspiring story to tell and definitely a nerve-wracking...
Did you end up changing all injectors' seal after you get home or you just leave them as is? (Since they are not leaking)

Can you take a picture off the valve cover and circle, or emphasize in details what you mean by the hard spots? Sorry if I'm asking for too much, but I really doing my best to understand and to avoid any unnecessary issues.
Thanks!!

Hopefully the bolts and washers will arrive by this weekend and I have about 1.5 week to prepare and replace the injector seal.

I only replaced the leaking injector. I am at 190k miles now, with only one failure.


I do not have a good photo currently. The claw/bracket which holds down the injector has a pivot point, its like a bump directly below it. This is part of the head (not the valve cover) it is safe to pry against this point if you are careful not to slip off and hit the valve cover.

My injector was not leaking long enough for the black tar to seal the injector bore tightly.


In cases like that, drive then van until its up to temp. Then you can loosen the injector hold down bolt about 1 turn from the finger tight position. Drive the van with a good bit of throttle. If you are lucky the injector will break loose and you will hear a loud chuffing/leaking air noise. Pull over, and tighten the injector bolt down (don't do the 90 degree stretch, just tight enough to stop the leaking). At this point, drive home, and replace the injector. It should come out fairly easily. If you are still having trouble, you can use a puller tool, or just wait until you get a better tool.

Midwestdrifter said:

I only replaced the leaking injector. I am at 190k miles now, with only one failure.


I do not have a good photo currently. The claw/bracket which holds down the injector has a pivot point, its like a bump directly below it. This is part of the head (not the valve cover) it is safe to pry against this point if you are careful not to slip off and hit the valve cover.

My injector was not leaking long enough for the black tar to seal the injector bore tightly.


In cases like that, drive then van until its up to temp. Then you can loosen the injector hold down bolt about 1 turn from the finger tight position. Drive the van with a good bit of throttle. If you are lucky the injector will break loose and you will hear a loud chuffing/leaking air noise. Pull over, and tighten the injector bolt down (don't do the 90 degree stretch, just tight enough to stop the leaking). At this point, drive home, and replace the injector. It should come out fairly easily. If you are still having trouble, you can use a puller tool, or just wait until you get a better tool.

Click to expand...

Thanks Midwestdrifter.
The bolts and washer should arrive Wednesday. so I will aim to have it done over the weekend. will update everyone then. Wish me luck.

My van now has 195k on it.

Be aware that the “lava” is much like roofing tar and will start to set quickly as the engine cools down.
So have tools at the ready and work quickly to loosen the fuel line and bolt, and if you have an aux heater/espar keep it running while you work to keep the head hot.

Good luck!

-dave

ps: this sort of slide-hammer can make the job go more smoothly:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/6pc-INJECT...ENGINES-611-612-613-4071-/232873918380?_ul=US

Nautamaran said:

My van now has 195k on it.

Be aware that the “lava” is much like roofing tar and will start to set quickly as the engine cools down.
So have tools at the ready and work quickly to loosen the fuel line and bolt, and if you have an aux heater/espar keep it running while you work to keep the head hot.

Good luck!

-dave

ps: this sort of slide-hammer can make the job go more smoothly:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/6pc-INJECT...ENGINES-611-612-613-4071-/232873918380?_ul=US

Click to expand...

Thx, just placed the order. For $39.99, its good to have for this or future injector removal.
Hopefully it arrive before Sat.

Re: Injector Leaking... Parts Arrived

Parts from Europarts arrived. pretty fast. Ordered Sunday night, arrived Wednesday noon.
Hopefully the injector puller will arrive tomorrow and I might be able to do my 1st attempt to replace #2 Injectors tomorrow.

Europarts do include the instructions, a bit confused on 2 things, any comments will be appreciated.
Step 5: torque to 62 inlb, then 90degree. but I read many post, final conclusion is 90 + 90.
And Step 6: torque fuel line to 204inlb. I assume I just hand tighten it as much as possible? since the torque ranch cannot be used?
Any thoughts on these guys?

Wish me luck.

90+90 or just 90 works fine, both are approved depending on which version of the manual you are reading.

There are attachments which let you use a torque wrench on the fuel lines. I did not use one, and typically do it by feel. Just don't strip the line nuts. A line wrench (which is a closed end wrench with a small cutout for the line to pass through) is the best option, but a regular open ended wrench works fine.

Midwestdrifter said:

90+90 or just 90 works fine, both are approved depending on which version of the manual you are reading.

There are attachments which let you use a torque wrench on the fuel lines. I did not use one, and typically do it by feel. Just don't strip the line nuts. A line wrench (which is a closed end wrench with a small cutout for the line to pass through) is the best option, but a regular open ended wrench works fine.

Click to expand...

THANKS for the quick reply Midwestdrifter!
I will just go for ONE 90 degree turn. I won't like another nerve wrecking 90 turn...

"There are attachments which let you use a torque wrench on the fuel lines"... never thought of that. learned another new thing! I will also use hand to feel/tighten it.

I just found out I only have T30 and T45... I guess the injectors hold-down bolts are T40. will need to get it from a local store.