Timing chain stretch....AGAIN!

gulum1804

Member
Its really disappointing to see these engines with this cancer like issue that keeps popping up. Just when we think its over it just reemerges like the boogie man. Keep an ear on those timing chains yall.
V6 2015 120k. Some one should get on with a class action already.
 

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sailquik

Well-known member
gulum1804,
Interesting that you are experiencing "timing chain stretch".
Who does your maintenance......authorized MB/FL Sprinter dealer shop.....an independent Sprinter shop.... DIY?
What engine oil have you been using?
What oil and filter change mileage are you using? 10k......15K.......20K (like the manual suggests)?
Do you run your engine to redline (I.E. > 3800 RPMs) often? (Do you run @ > 3200 RPMs all the time)?
Do you use a Scan Gauge II (or similar) so you can tell when your transmission needs to be manually
downshifted? (I.E. do you lug your engine @ < 2200 RPMs or do frequent stop and go like deliveries).
I have not heard that "timing chain stretch" (beyond what the hydraulic timing chain tensioner can accomdate)
is any sort of a recurring problem that occurs frequently.
You may be the first person I've heard of with this issue so it would be interesting to discover how you
drive and maintain your Sprinter to see if there is something you might be doing that causes or contributes
to "timing chain stretch".
Your post indicates you may have had this issue previously......was it on the same OM-642 3.0 liter V6 engine,
and at what mileage did it occur.
I've done > 1/2 million miles with all 3 USA Specification Sprinter engines (OM-647 2.7 liter Inline 5 cylinder, 3 OM-642 3.0 liter V6
engines, and one OM-651 2.143 liter Inline 4 cylinder (now with 192,000 miles), all of them sometimes towing
at ~12,000 lbs. CGVW, and have had no engine internal issues.....ever.
Inquiring minds would like to understand this issue and decide if it's a common issue or something unique to the
way you drive your Sprinter.
Roger
 
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lindenengineering

Well-known member
As I have reported.
This engine suffers when high amounts of carbon particles are en trained in the oil and made much worse by operator neglect or sloppy serving methodology. Have a neglected engine and you are not likely to get more than 200,000 miles from a chain & sprockets.

The abrasive nature of carbon by the way scours out crankshaft bearing shells and most certainly the timing chain is not immune to abrasive wear.
But its good for business.
Dennis
 

4wheeldog

2018 144" Tall Revel
As I have reported.
This engine suffers when high amounts of carbon particles are en trained in the oil and made much worse by operator neglect or sloppy serving methodology. Have a neglected engine and you are not likely to get more than 200,000 miles from a chain & sprockets.

The abrasive nature of carbon by the way scours out crankshaft bearing shells and most certainly the timing chain is not immune to abrasive wear.
But its good for business.
Dennis
My takeaway from your post is that improper oil filters, improper oil filter installation, and extended OCI, or poor quality oil is the likely cause.

A number of American manufacturers have had issues with gasoline engine cam chain wear in the last decade. The fix is generally to reprogram the oil change monitor to shorter cycles.
 

Rob S

2018 Navion 24G IQ on 2016 Sprinter
So, all the guys on here who have expressed skepticism about the 20k OCI are maybe right after all, and presently having a laugh.

This brings to mind a technical question for you.

Pre-def engines used EGR to reduce Nox, EGR pumps carbon into the oil, black as a bear even right after a change due to residual deposits in the crankcase. On my 07 with GDE tune, my oil is cream colored instead of black long after the oil change.

2010 plus uses DEF to eliminate Nox, so why do they still use EGR? Does it use less EGR?? Did they decide that reduced oil contamination due to reduced requirement for EGR warrants longer OCI??

One might also conclude this is from force of habit, or is it just to kill off the engines earlier on purpose???
 

gulum1804

Member
This van is in our local shop rite now. Not my van. The owner stated he does 10k oil changes if not more and seems to be on the cheap side of maintenance.

I guess some people really think that these vans can run up to 15k 20k oil changes with the 0w30 or any oil for that matter. What a Bumber.
 

220629

Well-known member
... The owner stated he does 10k oil changes if not more ...
More meaning? 12k... 15... 20k... or "more frequent"?

It is pretty tough to prove that the boilerplate for quite some time now, 10,000 mile OCI is detrimental. I won't argue that a 20k OCI may be excessive, but based upon forum history I'd not agree with 10k being a problem.

2015 MY failure.

Is it showing in a model year range? Was there a design change (are all part numbers the same as compared to earlier V6's)? Did MB change factory OEM suppliers? Maybe there was a bad batch of parts? (The early OM647 EGR failures and subsequent part recall comes to mind.)

We really don't have much data... yet.

:cheers: vic
 
As I have reported.
This engine suffers when high amounts of carbon particles are en trained in the oil and made much worse by operator neglect or sloppy serving methodology. Have a neglected engine and you are not likely to get more than 200,000 miles from a chain & sprockets.

The abrasive nature of carbon by the way scours out crankshaft bearing shells and most certainly the timing chain is not immune to abrasive wear.
But its good for business.
Dennis
I make no apologies that I change my oil every 5,000 miles. Genuine MB filter and 5W-30 Castrol MB approved oil. I've been called a fool, wasteful, and an over maintainer.

But as long as I'm footing the bill that's what I'll continue to do.
 

gulum1804

Member
The owner stated there were times they went up to 15k and also lost one engine in the process in another van. (I guess old habits dont change). If you take that in to consideration along with constant abuse and necklet what ells can be the out come.

Honestly this is the first time i saw this on a newer model sprinter. I have not seen a van with a timing chain issue past 2013 model year. That was until today.
 
Its really disappointing to see these engines with this cancer like issue that keeps popping up. Just when we think its over it just reemerges like the boogie man. Keep an ear on those timing chains yall.
V6 2015 120k. Some one should get on with a class action already.
So you want to sue someone because a van with 120,000 miles on it needs work?
 

showkey

Well-known member
If we are guessing cause of premature chain problems:
I would bet on supplier change on the chain, tensioner, guides or all the above VS an oil issue changed at 10k.

The trend line on this issue is 2010 and newer ?
 
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4wheeldog

2018 144" Tall Revel
Just to clarify, chains do not stretch. They get longer when they wear excessively.
This can be a metallurgical problem, but is more commonly a lubrication failure.
If (As Dennis alluded to) there is excessive carbon in the oil because of inferior or incorrectly installed oil filter, it is caused by abrasion.
If the wrong oil is used, or the correct oil is used past its useful life, lubrication fails, abrasive particles or not.
Do we really know that these conditions are not the cause of the cam chain failures?
 

220629

Well-known member
...
Do we really know that these conditions are not the cause of the cam chain failures?
We really know nothing.

To date:
There's no specific info on what parts failed.
There's no formal failure analysis of the replaced parts.
There's no oil analysis.
10 - 15k OCI was mentioned. Oil brand/specification was not mentioned. Oil filter brand wasn't mentioned.

To be clear about my previous post. While blaming extended OCI is easy for us here on the forum, we have no data yet. The 10k OCI worked fine on NAS aka NAFTA NCV3 V6 diesels for close to a decade before MB raised it to 20k. My recollection of posts on this forum is that V6 timing chain failures are not generally a hot topic.

Has something changed, or is it simply the extended oil changes? :idunno:
The 10k - 15k mile OCI mentioned for this truck isn't even the 20k allowed (assuming 20k OCI applies to 2015 MY.)

:cheers: vic

P.S. - I am not saying that a 20k OCI is ok. I don't know one way or the other.
 

Skanmyth

Member
Here is a engine timing chain lasted almost million kilometers.

This timing chain on picture is from my original engine OM642 2013 sprinter got ceased after 940,000km. Looking at the connection link revert match the rest of the link revert, could this be original chain? Then this chain have ran 940,000km. Matchanic who replaced donner engine thinks reason for cease was due to oil cooler leak would have lead to run crank bearing dry on cold starts if bearing did not cease this timing chain would be still running. Prevouse owner bought the van when 300,000km and drove over 600,000km he said used valvoline 5w40 mst and changed oil every 10,000km.

On other end my donner engine I replaced from 2011 sprinter I drove 6000km and engine is about 110,000km now and I have timing chain noise on cold starts. I am looking into changing timing chain myself. After reading above Dennis's comments about carbon damaging chain and bearing I am realy concerned how much damage on bearing and is this a ticking time bomb I have?

Is there anyway to find out how much bearing may have been damaged?


Sent from my SM-G965W using Tapatalk
 
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