Sprinter-Forum    
 

Go Back   Sprinter-Forum > T1N Sprinters > T1N Talk

T1N Talk General Discussions related to T1N Sprinters.


 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-10-2017, 12:13 PM   #11
Aqua Puttana
Poly - Thread Finder
 
Aqua Puttana's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: The Falls of Niagara, USA
Posts: 24,852
Thanks: 12,720
Thanked 13,961 Times in 8,874 Posts
Default Re: Replacing alternator regulator 200A - recommended parts?

Quote:
Originally Posted by autostaretx View Post
...

One (or, at least *i*) would hope that there's a dollop of "save the alternator from self-destruction" tossed in there, too.
There kinda is in that the alternator can only put out so much current. Some confuse vehicle alternator operation with electric motor operation. The use of wound coils make them appear similar, but they are different animals. In my experience vehicle alternator coils rarely cook or burn out. Most times loss of output relates to regulator problems or main diode failure(s).

Quote:
Originally Posted by autostaretx View Post
...
p.s. oh, well... at least it's nice to know that even a 90 amp alternator has 200-amp-rated diodes...


Are the main diodes in all of the different sized alternators identical?

The regulator diodes? They are to supply the field coils. They have nothing directly to do with the main diode bridge.

vic
__________________
DAD NAS (N. Amer. Spec) 2004 140 2500 >330,000+ mi. Arctic Whitewash Brush-tone Grey
2006 Freightliner 140 2500HC >183,000+ mi. Arctic Whitewash (Spotted Snow Leopard accents)
"My opinion and worth everything you'll never pay for it." assumed.
Anyone can hold the helm when the sea is calm. Publilius Syrus
"There are only 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't." HaWiiLuVeR
16 ounces of unnecessary prevention can be worth a pound of manure.

Last edited by Aqua Puttana; 06-10-2017 at 03:34 PM.
Aqua Puttana is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2017, 04:10 PM   #12
autostaretx
Erratic Member
 
autostaretx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Seattle
Posts: 17,571
Thanks: 3,080
Thanked 7,945 Times in 5,793 Posts
Default Re: Replacing alternator regulator 200A - recommended parts?

I fully agree that the regulator does not have (and/or does not adequately thermally couple to the metal) the "heat sink" capacity needed to handle the charging-current diodes. (egad... it's been 40 years since i last changed out an alternator's diodes... on my '65 VW squareback)

One of the service documents (which i can't find at the moment ) had a representative schematic of the regulator's internals.. and appeared to lump the diodes into the regulator's "box".

--dick
p.s. whilst trying to find the above-mentioned document, i re-read the service manual chapter on the "generator"... i was bemused to see that they said to replace the entire generator if the brushes were worn. ((since the brushes are running on slip rings, not a segmented commutator, they shouldn't wear. Thus, if they do, the slip rings are shot ((similar to rotor/brake pad arguments)))
__________________
2005 T1N 118" Freightliner 2500 Passenger Wagon (2.7L, 15" tires, standard (short) roof)
Get YOUR Sprinter's full configuration datacard by entering your VIN to https://www.datamb.com/
http://diysprinter.co.uk/reference <-- lots of service documentation, Thanks to Jens Moller and Arnie_Oli
((as always: this post may go through a couple of post-posting edits... so maybe give it ten minutes before commenting))
autostaretx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2017, 09:17 PM   #13
Aqua Puttana
Poly - Thread Finder
 
Aqua Puttana's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: The Falls of Niagara, USA
Posts: 24,852
Thanks: 12,720
Thanked 13,961 Times in 8,874 Posts
Default Re: Replacing alternator regulator 200A - recommended parts?

Quote:
Originally Posted by autostaretx View Post
...

One of the service documents (which i can't find at the moment ) had a representative schematic of the regulator's internals.. and appeared to lump the diodes into the regulator's "box".
The brushes are often integral with the replacement regulator.

The excitation diodes are shown in the diagram here.
https://sprinter-source.com/forum/sh...369#post511369

Basically the rated alternator output is a function of the magnetic field and the main coils. The coils don't overload like they do in an AC motor when too much load slows the rotation which affects the back EMF/impedance and results in overcurrent.


Quote:
Originally Posted by autostaretx View Post
...
p.s. whilst trying to find the above-mentioned document, i re-read the service manual chapter on the "generator"... i was bemused to see that they said to replace the entire generator if the brushes were worn. ((since the brushes are running on slip rings, not a segmented commutator, they shouldn't wear. Thus, if they do, the slip rings are shot ((similar to rotor/brake pad arguments)))
I don't necessarily agree with that maintenance concept.

The brushes are in continuous contact with the rotating slip rings. Friction wear and current will reduce the mass of the brushes over time. Some brushes are made harder than others. A soft brush can wear out long before the slip rings become un-serviceable.

If replacing the regulator assembly is desired (eg. - to renew soft brushes), a simple visual inspection of the collector rings should establish their condition.

vic
__________________
DAD NAS (N. Amer. Spec) 2004 140 2500 >330,000+ mi. Arctic Whitewash Brush-tone Grey
2006 Freightliner 140 2500HC >183,000+ mi. Arctic Whitewash (Spotted Snow Leopard accents)
"My opinion and worth everything you'll never pay for it." assumed.
Anyone can hold the helm when the sea is calm. Publilius Syrus
"There are only 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't." HaWiiLuVeR
16 ounces of unnecessary prevention can be worth a pound of manure.

Last edited by Aqua Puttana; 06-11-2017 at 01:31 AM.
Aqua Puttana is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2017, 12:18 AM   #14
autostaretx
Erratic Member
 
autostaretx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Seattle
Posts: 17,571
Thanks: 3,080
Thanked 7,945 Times in 5,793 Posts
Default Re: Replacing alternator regulator 200A - recommended parts?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aqua Puttana View Post
I don't necessarily agree with that maintenance concept.
... ditto ...

--dick
__________________
2005 T1N 118" Freightliner 2500 Passenger Wagon (2.7L, 15" tires, standard (short) roof)
Get YOUR Sprinter's full configuration datacard by entering your VIN to https://www.datamb.com/
http://diysprinter.co.uk/reference <-- lots of service documentation, Thanks to Jens Moller and Arnie_Oli
((as always: this post may go through a couple of post-posting edits... so maybe give it ten minutes before commenting))
autostaretx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2017, 12:43 AM   #15
Arnie_Oli
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: West Country, UK
Posts: 514
Thanks: 36
Thanked 145 Times in 95 Posts
Default Re: Replacing alternator regulator 200A - recommended parts?

Given the cost of a new Bosch unit I am not jumping to swap the complete unit until I have to :)

It seems that the lifespans of the brushes with average use appears to be around ten years or so, obviously mileage may vary but that's how long a similar Bosch model unit lasted on my Golf before the brushes were worn low. I rather wish I had kept the spare bits when I had them but I wasn't familiar with rebuilding alternators back then. Love and learn!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro which means I am probably lying under the van wishing I had a crawler and a large warm workshop I could park in.
__________________
I've mirrored the reference PDFs and guides shared online here for everyone: http://diysprinter.co.uk/reference
Arnie_Oli is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2017, 11:09 AM   #16
Arnie_Oli
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: West Country, UK
Posts: 514
Thanks: 36
Thanked 145 Times in 95 Posts
Default Re: Replacing alternator regulator 200A - recommended parts?

Tada! Chores have arrived in the post

Love the handy label with the "no lay people, just workmen" logo.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro which means I am probably lying under the van wishing I had a crawler and a large warm workshop I could park in.
__________________
I've mirrored the reference PDFs and guides shared online here for everyone: http://diysprinter.co.uk/reference
Arnie_Oli is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Arnie_Oli For This Useful Post:
Aqua Puttana (06-12-2017), autostaretx (06-12-2017)
Old 06-13-2017, 12:55 PM   #17
Arnie_Oli
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: West Country, UK
Posts: 514
Thanks: 36
Thanked 145 Times in 95 Posts
Default Re: Replacing alternator regulator 200A - recommended parts?

Got her out. Not much more life left in the brushes anyway. About twenty mins fudging around underneath keeping the alternator in situ and removing the regulator from underneath while my feet burn in the roaring sunshine.

Obviously disconnect battery...

Much easier if you use an E12 torx socket to move the supporting bracket for the turbo to one side.

Remove the bolts and screws shown, cover from alternator comes off and two needlessly hidden screws (WTF Bosch!) come out and the regulator slides out.

Just about to pop her back in and test now


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro which means I am probably lying under the van wishing I had a crawler and a large warm workshop I could park in.
__________________
I've mirrored the reference PDFs and guides shared online here for everyone: http://diysprinter.co.uk/reference
Arnie_Oli is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2017, 12:59 PM   #18
Arnie_Oli
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: West Country, UK
Posts: 514
Thanks: 36
Thanked 145 Times in 95 Posts
Default Re: Replacing alternator regulator 200A - recommended parts?

On the subject of the bushings. This is what mine look like after ten years and 88k miles


There is a lip on them but judging by the depth of the parts only about half worn.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro which means I am probably lying under the van wishing I had a crawler and a large warm workshop I could park in.
__________________
I've mirrored the reference PDFs and guides shared online here for everyone: http://diysprinter.co.uk/reference
Arnie_Oli is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Arnie_Oli For This Useful Post:
Aqua Puttana (06-13-2017)
Old 06-13-2017, 01:25 PM   #19
Arnie_Oli
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: West Country, UK
Posts: 514
Thanks: 36
Thanked 145 Times in 95 Posts
Default Re: Replacing alternator regulator 200A - recommended parts?

Rebuilt and back up and running. Tested at 13.84v when running. Much better.

Now to see if that parasitic load has gone.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro which means I am probably lying under the van wishing I had a crawler and a large warm workshop I could park in.
__________________
I've mirrored the reference PDFs and guides shared online here for everyone: http://diysprinter.co.uk/reference
Arnie_Oli is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2017, 02:32 AM   #20
Guy de Verges
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 2
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default Re: Replacing alternator regulator 200A - recommended parts?

Hello Gentleman, what a great discussion. I am new to the sprinter world and have an issue with charging that i would like your input. I have a 2004/2005 Airstream westfalia van with 60,000 miles. recently on the way home from a trip the battery light came on ans would go off an on every few minutes. I pulled over and found that the charge voltage to the battery varied from 13.8 volts(battery light off) to 11.3 volts (battery light on). The electrical system would not charge so i crept home using as little power as i could.

I has heard that the voltage regulator was often an issue so i ordered one from amazon using the correct part number if found on the westfalia group page. I received it and put it in today. fit just fine and looked the same as the original bosch but was made in china. now the alternator is putting out too much volts 15.1 to 17.1.

Should i assume that i got the wrong part and just order the bosch part? Is it safe to drive the van over charging like that? Dash warming light came on when i tried to drive the van.

Thank you very much.

Guy in Tulsa, OK
Guy de Verges is offline   Reply With Quote

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT. The time now is 08:12 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.