Sprinter - Motorhome, commercial, auto?

sailquik

Well-known member
GSWatson,
How much does your Sprinter weigh?
Have you ever gone to a CAT scale and weighed it?
You may get lucky and never have an issue.
If I remember correctly, deep down in the CMV (Commercial Motor Vehicle) sections of the California
Vehicle Code, the CHP Truck Inspectors have the right to pull over any vehicle with a commercial
license plate, at any time, and if they determine that it is, in fact, being used commercially (the
USDOT ruling on this is if there is any thing for sale, and tools of a trade or an materials not being
installed in the home of the registered owner) then they can bring the full letter of the CMV laws to
bear.
This means no alcohol in the vehicle (they can impound it for 24 hours or until you bring someone else
to drive it).
This also means they can apply any of the USDOT requirements (log books/medical exam/ daily driving
hour limits)....the whole shebang as it's written in the US Code.
No one is saying that they WILL do this, only that they have the full authority to do so.
I know all this because I was ticketed by a roving CHP officer for not having a USDOT or CAL T # on my
6 ton box truck, (not being used commercially, but with an NC "weighted" plate) ostensibly because there
were a lot of out of state trucks running around in California that were in commercial service but were
not paying CAL T taxes.
So I got the USDOT # (and all that having that damnable # entails) and then the fun began.
Ultimately I sold a perfectly good 1,000,000 mile 4x4 box truck (with 450,000 miles and a brand new $13k engine
and new $2.5k rear differential) and at a huge loss because I went through a scale with a couple of bottles of
beer locked in a cooler that was locked inside the truck box.
I got the $2,500 fine set aside (cost $3,500 for the lawyer) and the lawyer went back to court to
have all traces of that ticket removed from my USDOT and Maryland driving records, but MD said they
don't remove tickets for MINOR traffic violations. The USDOT said that it would skew their enforcement
data base to remove it.
Needless to say it would have been very troublesome to continue to drive that truck if the first thing that
showed up when the weigh station or state truck enforcement officer ran the USDOT # was an alcohol citation.
They gave me a field sobriety test the night my truck was impounded and the result was 0.00.
I did not get any sort of ticket for DUI....only for carrying 2 bottles of beer, in a cooler, locked in the
back of the box truck.
Sorry to rant, but I feel it's important because when the state or federal CMV/Truck enforcement decides to
make your life miserable, it's beyond belief miserable.
Roger
 
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220629

Well-known member
Regulations...

A USCG license was mentioned.

For decades I held my USCG Masters license w/ Sailing - Towing endorsements. I used it occasionally, but mostly it was a vanity license.

One funny thing was that my insurance company wouldn't give any discount for holding the USCG license. They wanted a U.S. Coast Guard Auxiliary Boating Safety Certificate. :bash:

USCG license renewal and documentation was always a bit of a pain. It got worse when drug testing was mandated. I kept the license for a cycle of needing the drug testing by using my mandated DOT drug test program. The next renewal I let the license lapse.

Here's why.

I learned that by just maintaining the license I could be subject to accident, pollution incidence, or other responsibility by just being aboard a vessel. The rationale is that anyone holding a license "should know better".

I recall an accident/incident on San Francisco Bay where a USCG license holder was detained even though he wasn't piloting or in any way assigned to the vessel. He was just aboard the pleasure boat. Fighting the charges required a lawyer and some court time.

There is also the official drug and alcohol Coast Guard requirements to worry about.

Fifth Coast Guard District Drug & Alcohol Prevention Program

https://www.uscg.mil/d5/Prevention/DAPI/DAPI_faqs.asp

DAPP said:
What happens when one of my crewmembers tests positive?

If the crewmember is the holder of a Coast Guard issued license or merchant mariners document, then the marine employer is required to report the positive test to the U.S. Coast Guard.

It takes most mariners 12-18 months to complete this process. The mariner's license is suspended during those 12-18 months. The license is reinstated once all of the requirements of the agreement are met. Failure to complete the agreement in the specified time will result in revocation of the license.
In my interpretation, the above DAPP adds a double whammy of complication should a USCG license holder be unfortunate enough to have any type of boating related drug or alcohol incident. (That was not my primary concern, but it is a factor.)

Anyway.

As Roger mentioned. The regulations are there. If something triggers the regulations to be applied it can make your life complicated, if not down right miserable.

It is easier to keep yourself out of the sh!t, than it is to dig yourself out later.

vic
 
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GSWatson

2013 144
Hi all - good things to know. Cal seems to be a bit strange on this - my friend picked up his new 144 4x4 last august, and was given the commercial plate by default from the CA DMV. No questions about it's use; based strictly on the GVW.

I'm going to start looking carefully at all the sprinters around here and checking their license plates. I keep my tools in the back, in custom made drawers, and I also keep beer in the fridge for the end of the day. Seems like I need to make some calls...

Greg
 

sailquik

Well-known member
With the tools, and the beers, you cold be in serious trouble if you have a Commercial registration.
With the same items in your Passenger registered Sprinter...most likely no issues at all.
With the same items in an RV......no issues at all.
Roger
 

brockclimber

New member
So if you buy a cargo van and the VIN states such but then I have it converted to have windows and seats I may pass as passenger or RV? Sometimes you can do car registration online here in NV so I would have to see how that goes as well as talk to my insurance company. Are there some NV DOT regulations anyone has found? Does using Upfitter change anything officially?
 

GSWatson

2013 144
A quick look at the CA DMV site sheds a little light on this. It seems that all pickups and vans are commercial vehicles by definition. And a van with living quarters automatically becomes a house car or motor home. But until one crosses the 10,001 lb line for weight, the Commercial Vehicle Registration Act doesn't apply, at which point I'm thinking is where Roger's concerns come in. This is all from a quick look online; the CA DMV is the usual hell for trying to speak to someone over the phone and get answers....




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 

220629

Well-known member
... But until one crosses the 10,001 lb line for weight, the Commercial Vehicle Registration Act doesn't apply, at which point I'm thinking is where Roger's concerns come in.
With the Sprinter being under the 10,001 GVWR (probably by design), assuming officers know that, unless you are placarded or possibly with having commercial graphics I agree that you should be fine.

2010 Mercedes-Benz 3500 Van

Model: 2010 Mercedes-Benz Sprinter
Towing capacity: 5,000 lbs
Gross vehicle weight rating: 9,990 lbs
Curb weight: 5,666 lbs
Dimensions: 233-273″ L x 80″ W x 96-111″ H
Payload: 4,324 lbs
Fuel tank capacity: 26.4 gal
Horsepower: 188 hp

... This is all from a quick look online; the CA DMV is the usual hell for trying to speak to someone over the phone and get answers....
Always consistent. I believe that all States send their DMV employees to the exact same training.

:cheers: vic
 

GSWatson

2013 144
I'm a visually unmolested 144 2500; so far every pickup and sprinter I've seen has the commercial formula plates - number, letter, numbers. I think I should be ok, and it's not like the sprinter is a speed monster...

Greg
 

SprinterSnale

'05 T1N 3500 - NorCalSprinterCampout
Windows are not a defining factor of an RV. My '05 3500 has no windows in the back and is happily registered as an RV in California. Never been questioned by CHP. The rig needs to meet a few of several criteria but not all. In my case, bed, bench seat, sink got it to pass. No exterior ladder racks or signage which makes it look like a workin' man van. Carrying personal toys is okay. Maybe you can get out of moving your friend's stuff by citing this law...:lol:
My registration is much lower than on my '73 one-ton box van which had the gross tonage surcharge never dipping below $225 after that fee was enstated.

edit: my GVW is 9,990 lbs
 
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220629

Well-known member
Everyone really needs to check with their jurisdiction.

In California.
Windows are not a defining factor of an RV. ...
In New York State.

They take a different approach. They specifically will not inspect your vehicle and help you to determine the classification. (Welcome to NY.)

NYS DMV said:
Vehicle modifications and registration class

Modifications to a vehicle can affect its registration

Part 106 of DMV Regulations describes the vehicles that are registered in the commercial class and in the passenger class. Part 106 also describes how some modifications that you make to your vehicle can affect the correct registration class of your vehicle. A description of the modifications appears below. Each description includes a reference to the DMV Regulations.

Important: The DMV cannot examine your vehicle to determine the correct registration class. You must determine the correct registration class for your vehicle.


Modifications that change a registration from 'Passenger' class to 'Commercial' class

Cars (Part 106.2 (e)) - you can register it in the 'Commercial' class if all the seats behind the driver are removed. Instead of the seats, you must install a permanent box or permanent rack to carry cargo.

Station Wagons and Vans (Part 106.2 (f)) - you can register it in the commercial class if all the seats and all the seat fittings behind the driver are removed completely.


Modifications that change a registration from 'Commercial' class to 'Passenger' class

Vans (Part 106.3 (d)) - you can register it in the 'Passenger' class if the van has

at least one side window behind the driver, and
at least one seat or set of seat fittings that is installed behind the driver, or camping equipment that is installed behind the driver.

'camping equipment' indicates that you have a permanent bed, a permanent stove, or a permanent refrigerator in the vehicle

if this equipment is removed and you use the van, you must register the van as a commercial vehicle

Pick-up Trucks (Part 106.6 (b) and (c)) - you can register it in the passenger class if it meets certain conditions, depending on its unladen weight.

If your modified or unmodified pick-up truck has an unladen weight less than 6,001 lbs., you can register it in the passenger class if it meets the following conditions:

the pick-up truck does not have any business advertisements
the pick-up is used exclusively for non-commercial purposes

If your modified pick-up truck with an unladen weight greater than 6,000 lbs., you can register it in the passenger class if it meets the following conditions:

the pick-up truck does not have any business advertisements and is used exclusively for non-commercial purposes
a camper top having one or more side windows completely encloses the truck bed
the pick-up truck has seats, seat fittings, or camping equipment installed in the truck bed 1'

NOTE: These modifications must be permanent. If you use the pick-up truck without the required modifications, then you must register it in the commercial registration class.
A window behind the driver isn't optional for passenger class. Given the "or" my interpretation is that a window is not necessary for a camper. So in that case similar to California for an RV. NYS apparently doesn't have an RV class.


I recall mention that some California DMV regulations are dependent upon specific locales. (Emissions related, not commercial/passenger though.)

:cheers: vic
 

SprinterSnale

'05 T1N 3500 - NorCalSprinterCampout
Everyone really needs to check with their jurisdiction.

I recall mention that some California DMV regulations are dependent upon specific locales. (Emissions related, not commercial/passenger though.)
Absolutely. CA rules vary county to county, and DMV to DMV. (We didn't even smog in Butte County until years after the urban counties had begun). Finding a DMV and personel that understand the house/car (love that term) conversion proccess is key.
 

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