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Old 01-28-2015, 12:11 AM   #1
OrioN
2008 2500 170" EXT
 
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Default OrioN RV & IT/DESIGN STUDIO: AC & DC SERVICE - ELECTRICAL SYSTEM

BACKGROUND:

The Orion II:
  • 'Homemade' van conversion in a 170" wheelbase, extended body, high-roof, 2500 series.
  • The electrical system is designed for off-grid & full-time living & IT/graphic design studio.
  • In service since December 2008...

This current design features a blend of the Orion II's original setup plus soon to be implemented changes to discovered deficiencies and upgrades.

Future postings with include details & discussions on each of the sub-systems (see list of drawings/layers below).



OBJECTIVES:
  • Showcase, highlight & explain the specifics, merits & performance of this unique system.
  • Help others to a) design & build or, b) augment/upgrade or remedy their current system, and where their requirements/needs are similar.
  • Through dialogue discover new improvement or resolves.



FEATURES:
POWER SPECIFICATIONS:
AC SERVICE:
  • Shore/Grid or DC-AC Inverter: 30A
  • DC-AC Inverter II: 8A
  • Generator: 18A
DC SERVICE:
  • Battery(House) Storage Capacity: 400aH (Net from 980aH AGM)
  • Battery(House) Current: 250A Continous
  • Alternator Current: ~130A (Net usuable from 180A unit)
  • Solar Current (Max): 30-35A

REDUNDANCY: (including bypasses and bi-directional)
  • Multiple Power Sources:
    1. AC - Shore/Grid Power
    2. AC - Generator
    3. DC - Alternator
    4. DC - Solar/PV Array
  • Dual DC-AC Inverters
  • Dual AC-DC Chargers
  • Bi-Directional Current flow between House & Chassis Battery Banks (Provide vehicle starting boost. Operate vehicle with dead alternator or battery)





SCHEMATICS:
ac_dc_service-master-v.2-thumb.jpg
NOTES:
SCHEMATIC DESIGN FORMAT: A 'graphical style' schematic is used to represent/document some of the physical properties & all locations of the components in the Orion II build. These views, and in the format of a laminated print, aid me to build and/or identify component/circuits for troubleshooting in the future.

VERSION/NAME NOMENCLATURE:
'layer #'-description'-'build #'-'date'.'revision'.pdf (ex: 1-ac_dc_service-master-v.2.1-020115.1.pdf)

CURRENT REVISIONS:
  1. AC & DC SERVICE - MASTER VIEW
    1-ac_dc_service-master-v.2.1-020715.1.pdf

  2. AC POWER SOURCE CIRCUITS
    2-ac_power_source_circuits-v.2.1-020715.1.pdf
  3. DC POWER SOURCE CIRCUITS
    3-dc_power_source_circuits-v.2.1-020715.1.pdf
  4. DC POWER SOURCE ALTERNATOR & BANK ISOLATOR
    4-dc_power_source-alternator_&_isolator-v.2.1-020715.1.pdf
  5. DC POWER SOURCE - SOLAR
    5-dc_power_source-solar-v.2.1-020715.1.pdf
  6. AC POWER SOURCE - DC-AC INVERTERS
    6-ac_power_source-dc-ac_inverters-v.2.1-020715.1.pdf
  7. AC-DC CHARGERS
    7-ac-dc_chargers-v.2.1-020715.1.pdf
  8. ALTERNATOR(DC)-DC CHARGER
    8-alt-dc_charger-v.2.1-020715.1.pdf
  9. DC-DC CONVERTER/REGULATOR
    9-dc-dc_converter-regulator-v.2.1-020715.1.pdf
  10. AC POWER NEUTRAL TO GROUND BONDING
    10-ac_power-neutral_to_ground_bond-v.2.1-020715.1.pdf
  11. SYSTEM COMMUNICATIONS & REMOTE CONTROLS/PANELS
    Coming soon...


PREVIOUS VERSION ARCHIVE:
TBA




TIPS:
This thread is OP(me) moderated. My desire is to keep it succinct and focused predominately on this system, and with the goal to aid folks in the design/build of a similar one. Anyone posting for sake of throwing out their systems details AND not in the context of either seeking advise or in response to another person seeking advise will be deleted or have its content 'slashed to the bone'.


FAQ'S:
Q: Why was my posted deleted? Why was my post edited 'to the bone'?

A: Ask yourself this... Was my post in the form of or valid question or inquiry? Was I responding to a posed question? If the answer to these were NO, then the post/contents was disqualified.






.

Last edited by OrioN; 02-14-2015 at 06:52 PM.
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Old 02-02-2015, 06:22 PM   #2
GeorgeRa
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Default Re: OrioN RV & IT/DESIGN STUDIO: AC & DC ELECTRICAL SYSTEM

Looks very good, nice to have back-ups in case of failures. With such a complex system how will you manage bonding (ground<>neutral) requirements. With the multiple AC sources these bonds will have to be managed automatically for safety aspects.

Great work,

George.
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Old 02-04-2015, 12:52 AM   #3
mikeme
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Default Re: OrioN RV & IT/DESIGN STUDIO: AC & DC ELECTRICAL SYSTEM

for the drawing format, do you have a key? what is the intent of the small block with the vertical arrow?
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Old 02-04-2015, 02:11 AM   #4
OrioN
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Default Re: OrioN RV & IT/DESIGN STUDIO: AC & DC ELECTRICAL SYSTEM

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeme View Post

for the drawing format, do you have a key? what is the intent of the small block with the vertical arrow?
Is this the small block with the vertical arrow you are referring to? If so, they are grounding poles/posts...


Screenshot (64).gif



I will make/add a key, thanks!




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Last edited by OrioN; 02-04-2015 at 05:02 PM.
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Old 02-04-2015, 12:37 PM   #5
mikeme
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Default Re: OrioN RV & IT/DESIGN STUDIO: AC & DC SERVICE - ELECTRICAL SYSTEM

Also wondering about the control system. how many of the components will you have connected via a messaging buss?

I looked at one of the inverters, and the literature indicated a control bus/message capability.
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Old 02-04-2015, 12:45 PM   #6
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Default Re: OrioN RV & IT/DESIGN STUDIO: AC & DC SERVICE - ELECTRICAL SYSTEM

seems like the 400 amp fuses may be a bit high. are you wiring the whole system with 0000 gauge wire?

if not, what exactly are you trying to protect?

one thing to consider would be a fuse between the vehicle alternator and the vehicle battery. ( I know this second-guesses the engineers, but you are increasing the load..)
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Old 02-04-2015, 04:08 PM   #7
OrioN
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Default Re: OrioN RV & IT/DESIGN STUDIO: AC & DC SERVICE - ELECTRICAL SYSTEM

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeme View Post

seems like the 400 amp fuses may be a bit high. are you wiring the whole system with 0000 gauge wire?

if not, what exactly are you trying to protect?


There are two 400A fuses in the schematic.

1) Driver foot well fuse: Actually, this needs to marked in red as it is one of the fuses that I need to verify for it's rating. It is probably correct as 400A, as this system/wire (#0000) has bi-directional current flow. Direction A: Alternator to House bank @ ~130A (plus any other demands place on it by house system components if the house bank is isolated/down and I be running entirely off the alternator/chassis battery). Direction B: Vehicle Engine Start via House Bank @ ~250-300A.


2) Power Box 400A fuse: In its location close to the source (980aH) and on a 4/0 welders cable, it is the recommended fuse size for the 3kW Inverter/Charger. The Inverter can draw +250A continous and ~500A surge(5 secs). It also services any other system loads.

The sole function of these fuses on the connecting wire is to protect the van from any dangers that could rise from being attached to the 980aH battery bank such as shorting/arching.






.

Last edited by OrioN; 02-05-2015 at 04:11 PM.
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Old 02-04-2015, 04:11 PM   #8
OrioN
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Default Re: OrioN RV & IT/DESIGN STUDIO: AC & DC SERVICE - ELECTRICAL SYSTEM

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeme View Post

one thing to consider would be a fuse between the vehicle alternator and the vehicle battery. ( I know this second-guesses the engineers, but you are increasing the load..)
Good catch again...

...that wire/connection is the factory wire, and it does have a fuse rated for the 180/220A alternator. I will now make a notation on the drawings.


Regarding your statement "but you are increasing the load..", any demands/loading that will exceed the alternator's output capability will be absorbed/compensated by the battery banks.




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Last edited by OrioN; 02-06-2015 at 05:23 PM.
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Old 02-04-2015, 04:29 PM   #9
OrioN
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Default Re: OrioN RV & IT/DESIGN STUDIO: AC & DC SERVICE - ELECTRICAL SYSTEM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ECU View Post

Not sure what the need for the Busbar DC service. Something like jumping other cars?

Being in the driver seat well... a very convenient location to wire in components that are located fore-ward which I want/need to run off the large house bank, and with the added benefit of not having to run long (read: heavier ga./$$$) wires from the rear DC panel. These components are: 12v outlets for phones/modems/etc located on dash, awning motor ignition trigger relay, front radio amplifiers, battery isolator sensing relay. I need to verify what fuse the connecting wire has, if memory serves it's a 75A. Each added component has it's own inline fuse.




.

Last edited by OrioN; 02-04-2015 at 05:05 PM.
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Old 02-08-2015, 04:36 AM   #10
OrioN
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Default Re: OrioN RV & IT/DESIGN STUDIO: AC & DC ELECTRICAL SYSTEM

Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeRa View Post

With such a complex system how will you manage bonding (ground<>neutral) requirements. With the multiple AC sources these bonds will have to be managed automatically for safety aspects.

I've made a schematic layer with the details & locations of the Neutral to Ground Bonds.
AC POWER – NEUTRAL TO GROUND BONDING
10-ac_power-neutral_to_ground_bond-v.2.1-020715.1.pdf



Here are the notes...

NEUTRAL-TO-GROUND BOND
  • ONLY ONE NEUTRAL BOND POINT CAN EXIST AT ANY TIME.
  • NEUTRAL BOND SHALL EXIST FOR & CLOSEST TO ALL AC CURRENT SOURCES
  • NEUTRAL BOND SHALL NOT EXIST IN LOCAL AC SERVICE PANEL


AC SOURCES & NEUTRAL BONDING LOCATIONS
1) MAIN POWER SERVICE SOURCES, CIRCUITS & LOADS
SHORE/GRID POWER:
Bonding occurs at the source's main service panel (or pedestal panel). Generator's bond is isolated via Manual Shore/Genset Transfer Switch. Inverter(Charger) #1's bond is isolated via internal transfer switch. Inverter #2's circuit, loads & bonding is separate from main power service.

GENERATOR POWER:
Bonding occurs internally on an Onan KV2.5. Shore/Grid's bond is isolated via Manual Shore/Genset Transfer Switch. Inverter(Charger) #1's bond is isolated via internal transfer switch. Inverter #2's circuit, loads & bonding is separate from main power service.

INVERTER(CHARGER) #1 POWER:
Bonding occurs internally. Shore/Grid's bond is isolated via Manual Shore/Genset Transfer Switch. Inverter #2's circuit, loads & bonding is separate from main service.
* Cabin Controlled/Manual Inverter Bypass Switch s function:
1) Allow shore or genset power to reach the Main Service Panel in the event that the Inverter(Charger) #1's transfer switch fails, or the unit is removed for servicing.

2) Eliminate Inverter(Charger) #1 from quantifying & disqualifying AC current from the genset under certain loading scenarios. (Onan KV2.5 has a lightweight flywheel which responds slowly to load variations and creates frequency and voltages that exceed the Xantrex parameters)
By allowing the shore or genset power to reach the main panel via bypassing the Inverter(Charger) #1, the Inverter(Charger) #1 senses no available AC and can now invert and supply current simultaneously. This scenario can create a second or double neutral bond as there is no way to instruct the inverter to break the bond. RESOLVE: 2 additional poles on the switch are used to open the AC circuit from the inverter to main service panel.


2) INVERTER #2 SERVICE CIRCUITS & LOADS
Bonding occurs internally. Bond, circuit & loads are separate from main power service.






.

Last edited by OrioN; 02-08-2015 at 06:12 AM.
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