2016 View 24M Lack Of Power Normal?

Hey guys:

First post on the forum. Purchased a 2016 Winnebago 24M. I tow a 2004 Jeep Wrangler. When going up a hill it just doesn't seem to have much power. On a fairly moderate hill I will slow to 40-45 miles per hour with the "pedal to the metal". Going up Black Mountain, NC West I-40 it will slow to 35-40 MPH. Is this a normal thing? Other Class C motorhomes pass me like I'm sitting still. Getting great MPG/ 10-12 MPG towing and 13-15 not towing. Typical ??
 

Old Crows

Calypso 2014 View Profile
How much does your "M" weigh all up? And, how much does your Wrangler weight. What engine/transmission????? Are you down shifting or letting the automagic transmission do it's thing???

Hill climbing isn't a big deal for these RVs. My buddy has a Jeep ??? something and he says he has to check to see if it's still attached most of the time.


13-15 sounds about right for a Sprinter Class C. 10-12 towing sounds a little heavy.
 
Not sure on weight but, I'm sure I'm at the limit (or more). Wrangler weighs about 3400 pounds. It's one reason I purchased the '04 wrangler as it has a little less weight that some of the newer ones.

It's a 2016 / 6 cylinder / turbo / automatic 6 speed. Manual shift doesn't help because it will only except the down shift if the RPM's are in range. I have questioned this at the MB dealer when in for oil changes, alignment, etc. They just say it's heavy vehicle and to drive like I stole it.

Going up I-70 west outside of Denver thought I was going to need my wife to get out and push. Top speed was 35 MPH at one point. I was wondering if the if the Last recall might have something to do with it. (Steering wheel volume control) One of the symptoms was loss of power???
 

autostaretx

Erratic Member
Can you reach/exceed 65 mph when you're *not* towing? Even on the flats?

If not, you may have a leak in your turbo system, hence you're only getting half the power the engine should generate.

(this is where a ScanGauge helps, it can monitor MAP (manifold absolute pressure), as well as LOD (% load on engine) and other handy goodies.)

Less power at altitude (Denver, for example) would be another symptom of this.

--dick
 
Thanks for the reply's! On the flats I have been 75 MPH. Just climbing hills it just doesn't seem to have much power. I thought it might be a "downshifting problem". MB has "it's just a heavy vehicle". Of course when I had it checked for wearing a front tire, I got the same answer.:laughing: Just trying to figure out if this is normal for the sprinter 6 cylinder turbo.
 

Old Crows

Calypso 2014 View Profile
Probably not. ??? Are you being passed by others? How fast do you think it should be going up hill with a toad? We've been up to 7000'+ several time and our View can motor right along usually passing slower vehicles quite easily. Now if you are going up hill w/ a toad and you have a significant headwind, it's going to be a bit of work. Even on flats, big headwinds, create a large amount of air resistance. 55 mph + 30mph HW = 85 mph effect . That takes a lot of power to overcome. Could that be a factor??
 

rollerbearing

Well-known member
We tow a Subaru Forester 3000 lbs with 2015 Navion. Does fine on flats. Not surprised by your performance going up I-70 west of Denver. We pretty much split up - wife drives Forester from Golden to Vail/Edwards. Then we re-connect.

35 mph seems a tad slow - but don't know your exact conditions. You are definitely going to feel the towed back there going up the hills. There was a couple who wrote for Winbago Life magazine specifically about Navion/Views. They did some comparison (toad/ no toad) runs going west to the Eisenhower tunnels. Both for their own rig and racing against another rig if I recall correctly. They would be another data point if you can find their articles.

I vaguely seem to recall they towed something small & light like a Focus and it knocked their top speed back from 55 to 45 just east of the tunnels.
 
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Probably not. ??? Are you being passed by others? How fast do you think it should be going up hill with a toad? We've been up to 7000'+ several time and our View can motor right along usually passing slower vehicles quite easily. Now if you are going up hill w/ a toad and you have a significant headwind, it's going to be a bit of work. Even on flats, big headwinds, create a large amount of air resistance. 55 mph + 30mph HW = 85 mph effect . That takes a lot of power to overcome. Could that be a factor??
I would hope I could maintain 55 MPH. Passing other vehicles? I am envious. To answer the other question; Even moderate hills 5% grade+- it starves for power (no headwind).

Thanks again for the responses!
 

Mike DZ

2016 View 24V (2015 3500)
RE Recall - If you had the steering wheel volume control disconnected in the recall it would not cause lack of power. If the volume control is still attached, it could cause "interference" in your CANBUS and maybe make your ECU do strange things. Mine lit up the dash indicators like a Christmas tree.

Based on how I drive with a tow (lighter than yours) here is my recommendation:
Suggest you get a Scanguage and use it, monitoring LOD, GPH, Boost and Water Temp. You will be able to see if you are getting boost (should be just above 22 at full throttle uphill) GPH should head up to 11 or so at full throttle uphill. If you approach the hill about 65 MPH, downshift one gear when you get to about 80 on LOD and monitor the boost and GPH to see what the engine is doing. You can leave the cruise control on during the downshift. You will not be able to downshift again, until the computer calculates that the downshift will not put the RPMs up near redline (about 3800/3900?). You can try nudging the lever to the left, but it won't downshift until its ready. Monitor water temp to ensure you are not overheating the engine.
 

rollerbearing

Well-known member
Yeah - you kind of get used to that - driving by RPM and water temp rather than the speedo.

Another tip - don't run the AC. Turn on the generator and use the house rooftop AC to keep your cool until you are over the passes.


And for what it is worth - I do run the AC & blower & headlights going down the passes to gain a tiny smidge more engine braking - because there isn't any to speak of.
 
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TJLee089

2013 Itasca Reyo 25R
I didn't see it mentioned, so I'll say it. Perhaps limp mode.

Without towing, at 60 mph, on level, can you easily accelerate to 65-70mph to pass? Rig should automatically downshift as needed. If not, something isn't right.

Limp mode can occur sporadically, with or without CEL. Often shutting off engine for a while then restarting will reset, but perhaps only temporarily. Numerous issues can result in limp mode.

Have a dealer run diagnostics scan. Sounds like your previous MB dealer was lazy.
 

bcislander

'07 Mercedes-badged Dodge
snip....

It's a 2016 / 6 cylinder / turbo / automatic 6 speed. Manual shift doesn't help because it will only except the down shift if the RPM's are in range. I have questioned this at the MB dealer when in for oil changes, alignment, etc. They just say it's heavy vehicle and to drive like I stole it.

snip....
The transmission is a 5-speed automatic, unless someone replaced it with a 6-speed :smilewink:

While true that the transmission will not downshift if the engine RPM would exceed the 'red line', you want to manually downshift as soon as possible on an uphill grade. It should downshift manually from 5th to 4th without problem at around 55-60mph. This transmission is notoriously poor at downshifting automatically.

As noted in previous posts, a Scangauge or Ultragauge would help to have you proactively downshift when the engine LOD exceeds ~85%.
 

Hosh

Navion 2018 24J
Towing a jkur at about 4400#’s, aluminum skids compensated by soft top, I was was able to maintain 50mph on east approach of tunnel and vail pass going west. In reverse, down to 35 mph at top of tunnel. You have to manually shift to keep rpms above 3k. Our 18 J is just south of 11050 with full water, we were < 1/3 for this trip. Plus 10k elevation is tough on every thing towing.

Now some Cummings dodge guys can pee on a fence post and call me out!
 
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We tow a Subaru Forester 3000 lbs with 2015 Navion. Does fine on flats. Not surprised by your performance going up I-70 west of Denver. We pretty much split up - wife drives Forester from Golden to Vail/Edwards. Then we re-connect.

35 mph seems a tad slow - but don't know your exact conditions. You are definitely going to feel the towed back there going up the hills. There was a couple who wrote for Winbago Life magazine specifically about Navion/Views. They did some comparison (toad/ no toad) runs going west to the Eisenhower tunnels. Both for their own rig and racing against another rig if I recall correctly. They would be another data point if you can find their articles.

I vaguely seem to recall they towed something small & light like a Focus and it knocked their top speed back from 55 to 45 just east of the tunnels.
Yep. That more like my performance towing. Does fine in the flats. Struggles up hills.
Again, tanks for your reply!
 
The transmission is a 5-speed automatic, unless someone replaced it with a 6-speed :smilewink:

While true that the transmission will not downshift if the engine RPM would exceed the 'red line', you want to manually downshift as soon as possible on an uphill grade. It should downshift manually from 5th to 4th without problem at around 55-60mph. This transmission is notoriously poor at downshifting automatically.

As noted in previous posts, a Scangauge or Ultragauge would help to have you proactively downshift when the engine LOD exceeds ~85%.
Thanks. I have noticed the sooner you down shift and keep it "on the pipe" it does better but, if it goes below 50 +- it's about impossible to recover going up hill. "This transmission is notoriously poor at downshifting automatically". True that.
 
Wanted to thank all you guys for your post. Very helpful. Bottom line; it looks like this may be pretty typical with a tow vehicle. Looks like I need to stay on top of the RPM's to minimize the reduction in speed. I would have never thought of running the generator and coach AC and turning off the chassis AC.

When I have time I'll post a neat little compact RIB relay I used for my generator that that works as a transfer switch. Super compact relay that nipples into the existing 4" square boxes already installed in your MH. Keeps me from having to do the manual plug in thing.

Thanks all!
 

Winterbagoal

2018 Winnebago Navion 24V on a 2017 Cab Chassis
Although we haven't challenged the 2 places you've noticed with our 2018 N24V yet, the reduction in towing power uphill you're seeing is probably closer to normal. Both of those spots, I-70 grades west of Denver, and I-40 westbound through the Black Mountain grades are challenging for any rig. With a towed, even more. We had a 2016 Sunstar 26HE with the 3 valve V10/6 speed transmission tow/haul mode combo through that I-40 climb last year with 4300 lbs of JKU behind it, and we struggled up the westbound grade in spots. I'd say it was worse then the Colorado grades along I-70, for climbing.
 

Old Crows

Calypso 2014 View Profile
Being a Crow and generally contrarian.... I'm not sure that reving the hell out of the engine is the best use of its power band. Yes, I know what 'on the pipe' means.... but it's not a two stroke. These engines have a 'table top' torque curve. They are not 'peaky' and don't necessarily have a 'sweet spot' for power and torque. True, they do make a bit more horse power at higher rpm as one would expect. Running at absurdly high RPM for extended periods only puts more heat into the coolant and lubes. And, makes you feel good.

These engines are sort of a 'land' equivalent of an aircraft 'turbo normalized' engine. It's going to deliver rated power from sea level to what every top mountain you can find. Maybe loosing out at 10 grand feet or so. Turbos work off the 'heat' in the exhaust not so much in the gas flow. More heat = more spin = more boost. With the complex and sophisticated power management system, it's going to give just the right amount of boost and fuel injection given the load on the engine.

The transmission is a wide ratio five speed. It's smart. Let the thing find the right gearing for the speed, load and climb. It will likely select 3rd gear with a heavy load in a climb. Let the management system sort it all out. Yes, you may not be doing 55 or 60 up a grade but that's not important. You may be doing 45. It is OK. Stay right and hang in there. It's not a race.

Don't have a toad. But I find it rather amusing to have some big @$$ Class A (or a speeding 18er) go whistling by us on the flats and downhills as we hold a steady 60-63-65. They get almost out of sight in a few minutes. Then you hit a grade and you start reeling them in like a big fat fish. A few miles later still climbing you're behind these beasts which are now puking out soot like a Fletcher Class destroyer laying smoke to cover a convoy. You must pull out to pass about 600 M behind them because of the soot trail. You just motor on past and give them a 'friendly' toot and a wave as they are shoveling more coal into what has become a flail-ex to keep their RV from dying.

Actually, you can do all that just letting the cruise control manage a reasonable speed. Sometimes, it doesn't even down shift.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah..... I hear all those concerns about 'heat' in everything. Humble opine, but you put more heat into the system by reving the hell out of it vs letting it find it's own way.
 
Being a Crow and generally contrarian.... I'm not sure that reving the hell out of the engine is the best use of its power band. Yes, I know what 'on the pipe' means.... but it's not a two stroke. These engines have a 'table top' torque curve. They are not 'peaky' and don't necessarily have a 'sweet spot' for power and torque. True, they do make a bit more horse power at higher rpm as one would expect. Running at absurdly high RPM for extended periods only puts more heat into the coolant and lubes. And, makes you feel good.

These engines are sort of a 'land' equivalent of an aircraft 'turbo normalized' engine. It's going to deliver rated power from sea level to what every top mountain you can find. Maybe loosing out at 10 grand feet or so. Turbos work off the 'heat' in the exhaust not so much in the gas flow. More heat = more spin = more boost. With the complex and sophisticated power management system, it's going to give just the right amount of boost and fuel injection given the load on the engine.

The transmission is a wide ratio five speed. It's smart. Let the thing find the right gearing for the speed, load and climb. It will likely select 3rd gear with a heavy load in a climb. Let the management system sort it all out. Yes, you may not be doing 55 or 60 up a grade but that's not important. You may be doing 45. It is OK. Stay right and hang in there. It's not a race.

Don't have a toad. But I find it rather amusing to have some big @$$ Class A (or a speeding 18er) go whistling by us on the flats and downhills as we hold a steady 60-63-65. They get almost out of sight in a few minutes. Then you hit a grade and you start reeling them in like a big fat fish. A few miles later still climbing you're behind these beasts which are now puking out soot like a Fletcher Class destroyer laying smoke to cover a convoy. You must pull out to pass about 600 M behind them because of the soot trail. You just motor on past and give them a 'friendly' toot and a wave as they are shoveling more coal into what has become a flail-ex to keep their RV from dying.

Actually, you can do all that just letting the cruise control manage a reasonable speed. Sometimes, it doesn't even down shift.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah..... I hear all those concerns about 'heat' in everything. Humble opine, but you put more heat into the system by reving the hell out of it vs letting it find it's own way.
Thanks again for the response. I have found that the computer does much of it and there's isn't much way to over rev it unless your going down hill and trying to engine brake. It seems that if it goes below 50 going up hill you are screwed. Just put it to the floor and hope for the best. Bottom line: I believe this Puppy is about normal as far as what everyone else is getting out of them. The generator and AC sounds like a neat little trick and with my RIB transfer switch, I can have my wife crank the generator up and AC without stopping to plug the thing in.
 

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