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-   -   Best Insulation for Walls/Ceiling (https://sprinter-source.com/forum/showthread.php?t=74260)

sprinterPaul 03-12-2019 06:38 PM

Re: Best Insulation for Walls/Ceiling
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MotoXPress (Post 750040)
Polyiso on the floor or ceiling also reduces the standing height - a big concern for taller people.


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On the ceiling you have 1.5" of rib height to fill. So you don't really lose anything. The floor is different. But I fail to see how adding Thinsulate under the floor and them compressing it helps. I'm sure the part thats in the corrugations helps. I didn't insulate my floor and it's been fine.


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BHamB 03-14-2019 11:04 PM

Re: Best Insulation for Walls/Ceiling
 
I went with .5" EPS foil board backed with Havelock wool on the ceiling. Havelock wool on the upper and mid walls, easy install, no adheisives required. I put 3M thinsulate on the lower walls; however, I am not a huge fan of the required 3m adhesive. Moisture and condensation seems to naturally work its way down to the weeping holes. I'll check it in 12 months and update accordingly.

hein 03-15-2019 03:05 PM

Re: Best Insulation for Walls/Ceiling
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BHamB (Post 750664)
I went with .5" EPS foil board backed with Havelock wool on the ceiling. Havelock wool on the upper and mid walls, easy install, no adheisives required. I put 3M thinsulate on the lower walls; however, I am not a huge fan of the required 3m adhesive. Moisture and condensation seems to naturally work its way down to the weeping holes. I'll check it in 12 months and update accordingly.

There is a low VOC 3M 90 high temp spray adhesive available and we are working with 3M to determine which PSA (peel and stick) tape will work best especially in cooler temps. Many people tend to use too much spray adhesive. The trick is to place the Thinsulate(TM) SM600L in the wall cavities and then pull back the edges and spray adhesive behind and near the top of the pieces in such a way that it gets on both the Thinsulate(TM) fibers and also the metal skin. Then gently press it back in place.

Sheep's wool does appear to be getting some traction lately so we'll have to see how it holds up down the (bumpy) road so please keep us posted with an update. Denim was popular but it got soggy when condensation got to it over time. Many organic insulation products are sprayed with Borates to achieve the FVMSS-302 flammability rating required in vehicles. When moisture is present this can leach out and form boric acid which is corrosive. Some folks and pets develop a reaction to it. Thinsulate(TM) contains no such additives.

All the best,
Hein

BikeJozz 03-15-2019 03:11 PM

Re: Best Insulation for Walls/Ceiling
 
https://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com...lyisocyanurate

hein 03-15-2019 04:15 PM

Re: Best Insulation for Walls/Ceiling
 
Did you know that if you burn Isocyanate that it releases toxic gas?
The stuff is nasty and the dust is not something you want to inhale.

https://www.osha.gov/SLTC/isocyanates/
https://firesciencereviews.springero...038-016-0013-2

radair603 03-15-2019 04:35 PM

Re: Best Insulation for Walls/Ceiling
 
After using Thinsulate I would not consider anything else. It is SO easy to cut with scissors or a rotomat, can be fished through ribs and tight spaces and is not toxic or itchy. $600 for a roll seems very expensive at first but the time saving makes up for it. It's a drop in the bucket when doing a full build with diesel heater, windows, solar-electric, awning, refrigerator, water system, etc.

Edited to say I also added 1/2" rigid foam and a layer of Reflectix to my ceiling because I have a black van that can heat up like an oven. Great in cold temps but not so great in the hot desert.

Shawn182 03-15-2019 07:33 PM

Re: Best Insulation for Walls/Ceiling
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by hein (Post 750787)
Did you know that if you burn Isocyanate that it releases toxic gas?

Valid point...but in reality of you are in the van still at the point that the fire reaches the insulation, the toxic gasses are likely the least of your problems.

hein 03-15-2019 09:21 PM

Re: Best Insulation for Walls/Ceiling
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Shawn182 (Post 750837)
Valid point...but in reality of you are in the van still at the point that the fire reaches the insulation, the toxic gasses are likely the least of your problems.

I would hope and pray that you and your precious cargo are safely out of the van and well clear of any smoke. I am also considering the safety of the firefighters, homes nearby, and folks driving by. Sorry to be sort of blunt in this thread. My training and experience as engineer has allowed me to see past what most folks consider as part of a failure analysis.

All the best,
Hein

NNGVan 03-16-2019 12:57 AM

Re: Best Insulation for Walls/Ceiling
 
A system is better than any single product.

Given the ribs have 2+ inches on he walls and ceiling is 1.5 here is what I did.

1) Polyiso 1” directly on the skin everywhere I could. Walls and ceiling, etc.
2) Small closed foam spray kit 200 lbf kit everywhere the poly didn’t fit.
3) Attic Foil not reflectix (much cheaper) on the front/back of my ThermalPly which I nailed to the ribs using 1x2 furrings directly on the ribs. This gave me a nice air gap for radiant heat.
4) Large Gap Filler for inside the ribs.
Cost was cheaper than a roll of Thinsulate
System R value 9+ (some argue about the advantage of radiant heat but there’s a 15-20 difference in Mexico in direct sunlight)
It took 4 times as long but I wasn’t in a hurry do it right it’s the hardest thing to do over.
No idea on the toxic levels everything is sealed and on the other side of the wall.

You lose about .5-.75 do to the furrings but man it handles Canada to Mexico better than anything I’ve seen.

Robert-NE 03-16-2019 01:43 PM

Re: Best Insulation for Walls/Ceiling
 
NNGVan, how did you come up with a system R value of 9+?

Everyone else, I am seeing a big push for Thinsulate, and I can appreciate some of the benefits over other forms of insulation. However, while still in the planning phase of my build, I am trying to understand the lack of votes for closed-cell spray foam based on the five criteria points:
1) R Value - closed-cell spray foam has the highest R-rating per inch of any other common materials
2) Installation effort - It is messy and requires proper technique required to prevent van wall distortion, but installs quickly compared to cut-and-fit of others.
3) Toxic/safe - I assume this is the number one benefit of Thinsulate over spray foam?
4) Cost - DYI spray foam kits cost about the same as Thinsulate
5) Thickness - Again, spray foam has the highest R-value per inch of any common insulation product

So, is the potential safety factor of spray foam the ONLY downside?


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