Continual sporadic power loss - WTF?

leroy

New member
This forum has been a lifesaver, maybe someone can help me out with this Sprinter-failure.

I love my 2004 high Top. But it is driving me nuts. It is stuck 250 miles away at a dealership. I am over $700 and 3 weeks into this problem and still no clue as to what is causing dangerous sporadic power failures on the highway. The dealership has a code reader and a 'Sprinter Tech' but have been unable to find the problem.

If you have the patience to get through my description of the symptoms and any insight as to what I might try next, I would appreciate your thoughts.

2004, high top 2500, about 125k miles, no previous issues except transmission shudder which was cured by accidentally slightly overfilling the trans oil. Oh also, for a few days before the problem I noticed a hissing/vibrating sound in the driver's side forward engine compartment. I looked for a rubbing fan belt or leaking hose and could not find anything. It has been quite cold, the sound was not loud, so what the heck.

About 3 weeks ago, after 2 hours at 65mph on a smooth highway, I felt an almost imperceptible skip in the power train, convinced myself I imagined it, then a minute later the ecu light came on, and I lost all power. Sitting on the highway shoulder, I could restart the engine, but no forward motion. After 10 minutes, I restarted it and could turn around. I drove at normal highway speeds for another hour, then it happened again. The ecu light was on, this time top speed was 5 mph, which did get me out of a dangerous spot. Was able to restart and resume normal speed, no ecu light, after 10 minutes. This happened once more within the next hour. I got the Sprinter into my drive, researched symptoms on the forum, and ordered a Turbo Boost Resonator Eliminator.

Said eliminator arrived, was installed, test drove around town ( no highway, < 40 mph), no problems. A longer trip at 65mph for 2 hours, no problems. But the next day, on a trip to pickup supplies for my business, after an hour at highway speeds, I got the ecu light, total power loss. I discovered at that point that AAA does not tow sprinters, the nearest tow truck was 2 hours out and wanted $600, and finally that my Tracfone was out of cell minutes. I decided to continue to the next city where I knew there was a Dodge dealership that claimed to have trained sprinter-people. This trip was punctuated with increasingly more frequent ecu-light/power-loss episodes, for the next 100 miles.

This kind of travel involves a set of nerves perhaps only sprinter owners develop. The only way over the mountains was the Interstate. I had to stay in the right lane, knowing that my only clue to complete impending power loss would be (perhaps) an imperceptible skip and a quick flicker of the ecu light. Bridges and tunnels represented a particular challenge. I had to speed up to 70-80 mph, taking whatever lane was available and praying that nobody got in my way so I could coast through to the next available shoulder if I got the flickering Yellow Engine of Death. This almost always worked. The only time it didn't, on an icy 2-lane bridge, I was headed downhill and gravity was just enough to let me crawl off the bridge onto the shoulder before the next herd of vehicles came through at 70mph.

I managed to get to The City during rush hour, which is celebrated in darkness this time of year. I plugged up an exit ramp for 10 minutes (it was uphill!) but I didn't get caught, and finally got onto the side streets. An hour of working my way through the city on little arterials at less than 40 mph never brought on the flickering death, but I could hear that hissing/vibrating sound in the engine compartment. I pulled over at one point and popped the hood and stood in the rain with a flashlight but could not find anything. The noise persisted for a while even with the engine off and it seemed to come from around the area of the drivers-side headlight. I studied the hoses and stuff but could not find anything. I do not know if it has anything to do with the power-loss problem.

I dropped the Sprinter off at the dealership and caught a bus home. They called me the next day, friendly enough, but there are several layers of organization between me and the mechanic who is actually working on the machine. I can't talk to him directly, only pass messages through intermediaries. Things get lost in translation, and all I have been able to learn is that they found 4 codes on the reader, corresponding to a cam sensor, a brake switch, and 2 internal ECM codes. The brake switch and the cam sensor they will replace for only $600 ( plus the $125 they are charging me to read the codes). After I approve another $2200 to swap out the ECM, they are going to start looking for the real problem in earnest.

I am not a easy as they think and I am already plotting the rescue. A. Bittenbinder is sending me a DAD. I am going to take a bus back to The City with an umbrella and all the tools I can carry. If I cannot fix this thing in a friend's driveway, or make it worse, at least I can drive it back home at 35mph plus some harrowing moments on the Interstate.

I love my van, but my loyalty to his majesty the Kaiser has never been more sorely strained.

I will keep you posted. I appreciate any insights.

PS. The dealer did say they tested the turbo system and air manifold and found no problems. No opinion on the hissing noise.
 
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sailquik

Well-known member
Since you are paying the Dodge dealer $125 to read the codes, can you get them to tell you what codes they discovered and what diagnostic tool (DRB-II...
Dodge Code reader..etc) they are using?
If we knew the codes, it would be much easier to help you diagnose what's going on.
The "hissing" noise could be the key. Sounds like something in the intake (hose... hose clamp..charge air fitting) is leaking (thus the hiss) and the on board diagnositcs is picking this up.
I know exactly the terror you are feeling.
My 2006 T1N (OM 647 engine.... different than yours) does exactly the same thing.
I get a P2146 code every time. I can reset this, using my ScanGauge II, but I too need to figure out what's the cause.
The dealer replaced the #1 injector the first time it did this, and that was supposed to take care of it.
I fearfully cross 2 lane bridges and tunnels and spend alot of time in the slow lane (closest to the breakdown lane or shoulder).
I had my van up to Dr. A, but the van tricked us and would not "code" while I was at Dr. A's.
I thought it was the AC, then temperature related, but it faulted twice this past weekend on a totally flat road, no wind 53-55% LOD
2496 RPM 22-23 MAP 57 mph in about 45 deg F. temps.
I'm having some issues getting my DAD unit hooked to a laptop reliably, but I will have that problem solved in the next couple of days.
Hope this helps,
Roger
 

8jef

Clueless
The noise persisted for a while even with the engine off and it seemed to come from around the area of the drivers-side headlight. I studied the hoses and stuff but could not find anything. I do not know if it has anything to do with the power-loss problem.
Normally, a noise that comes from around the driver side headlight, that persist a bit after engine off, is probably due to the Espar aux. heater slowly shutting off. I doubt this has something to do with your problem. That's the only thing I can say. Hope that DAD helps you out.

I feel your pain. Your are actually living one of my worst nightmares, excepted that in my nightmare, there's 13 other people inside with me at the back of the Sprinter. :eek:

Jef
 

cfloors

New member
I had the same problem and it turned out to be the turbo cooler. Loss of power no codes huming from the right side, ect. The dealer I took mine to says that they have replaced alot of them, usually hairline cracks, take a flashlight and look thru the front grill or take it off and look for a crack. Note
the Turbo cooler is located behind the AC Cooler but in front of radiator. This may help.
 

leroy

New member
These are good comments. I do not have an aux heater. I am going to lean on the service dept to give me a more detailed breakdown of the codes, but I have to wait until they open Monday.

Will keep you updated on what I find.
 

sikwan

06 Tin Can
These are good comments. I do not have an aux heater. I am going to lean on the service dept to give me a more detailed breakdown of the codes, but I have to wait until they open Monday.
You may have a Heater Booster (center switch below the A/C or above the REST) which uses the same Espar heater on the driver's side headlight. I'd be surprised that you didn't.
 

RealityCramp

New member
This does not help you with the problem but I do have info regarding AAA and towing. I have a 2003 and they refused to tow the first time I called because they said it was a commercial vehicle. I called back and asked for a manager. After a few discussions they realized it was 200 lbs below their limit and that it was towable. Since they have not given me any trouble and I have a note on my account that it is towable. If you push they will give in.

MM
 

leroy

New member
More info from the dealer:

The codes were:

1617-002 ECM read error
1222-002 Brake pedal position
1234-002 Accelerator pedal position
2322-001 Crankshaft sensor plausibility
2356-008 ECM readout error

The Service Manager had previously told me cam rather than crankshaft sensor error. Probably just a Lost-in-Translation error. He said they did a smoke test on the turbo and found no leaks. Still no opinion on the hissing sound, I guess they don't hear it, as it is intermitent.

I am still trying find out if there have been stored codes from the limp home episodes. He did not know what scan tool they are using.
 

leroy

New member
More (or less info from the dealer):

They use an ordb-III as a reader and they have no other information to share, no history or mileage or time parameters.

How hard is it to replace the ECM? Can you just pop a used one in?

There is a thread on yahoo about fuel leaking back through the wiring harness and screwing up the ECM. I did have a small fuel drip from a damaged fuel line hose a while back, near the fuel filter sensor. It seems like a real long shot, as the leak did not start until after the yellow-engine-light-of-death episodes began.

The hissing/vibrating sound (almost a growl) may be a leak in the air charge system, as suggested above? I have ordered a replacement air hose and a cheap stethescope.

This does not help you with the problem but I do have info regarding AAA and towing. I have a 2003 and they refused to tow the first time I called because they said it was a commercial vehicle. I called back and asked for a manager. After a few discussions they realized it was 200 lbs below their limit and that it was towable. Since they have not given me any trouble and I have a note on my account that it is towable. If you push they will give in.

MM
I just talked to AAA and they are no longer negotiable on this. No towing sprinters. However Good Sam ERS will happily tow sprinters and I now have a membership. Wish it had not come to this, having a towing service in the front of my mind rather than in the back, when I get into my van.
 
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abittenbinder

Doktor A (864-623-9110)
More info from the dealer:

The codes were:

1617-002 ECM read error
1222-002 Brake pedal position
1234-002 Accelerator pedal position
2322-001 Crankshaft sensor plausibility
2356-008 ECM readout error



I am still trying find out if there have been stored codes from the limp home episodes. He did not know what scan tool they are using.
Being a Dodge/Freightliner dealer he most likely used a DRBIII. A competent technician can also extract snap shot fault code information showing when the code was set , how many key cycles it occurred, and misc sensor data at time of fault (rpm, coolant temp, phase of moon,etc).

The 2 ECM codes are rare and ominous. You need more info from the dealer regarding the odometer mileage when all these codes were set so you can match to odometer reading of your LHM episodes.

BTW, do not bother chasing 'low boost' LHM causes without seeing fault code 2359 (low boost). Doktor A
 

leroy

New member
ALso spent some time on the phone with AAA. They may have been flexible in the past but the manager said, very politely but firmly, that they won't tow the sprinters, no exceptions.
 

chris118

Member
Last month I broke down near Bakersfield(belt tensioner seized up/destroyed belt). I just called AAA and said my van(not my SPRINTER van) needed to be towed.
They were very nice and in an hour it was on a truck on it's way to Hunter Dodge in Lancaster, CA.
Now maybe it has to do with my sprinter being the small 118" wheel base and being a regular height version.

I highly recommend AAA PLUS membership. Free towing up to 100 miles. This tow was 93 miles.
 

RealityCramp

New member
[/QUOTE]
I just talked to AAA and they are no longer negotiable on this. No towing sprinters. However Good Sam ERS will happily tow sprinters and I now have a membership. Wish it had not come to this, having a towing service in the front of my mind rather than in the back, when I get into my van.[/QUOTE]

That is disappointing to hear. I will call and if that is the case my 20 year AAA membership run is over. A friend has a towing business and will not hesitate to tow the things with his basic tow truck. How silly is that.
 

leroy

New member
Being a Dodge/Freightliner dealer he most likely used a DRBIII. A competent technician can also extract snap shot fault code information showing when the code was set , how many key cycles it occurred, and misc sensor data at time of fault (rpm, coolant temp, phase of moon,etc).

The 2 ECM codes are rare and ominous. You need more info from the dealer regarding the odometer mileage when all these codes were set so you can match to odometer reading of your LHM episodes.

BTW, do not bother chasing 'low boost' LHM causes without seeing fault code 2359 (low boost). Doktor A
I am not apparently going to get more info from the dealer. No history data. Whether or not it is unavail or they do not understand how to get it, I don't know. They are not particularly articulate about the issue.

Is a cracked or split intercooler hose a 'low boost' issue?

Could the crank position sensor have anything to do with the power loss? I have a spare, how hard is it to replace?
 
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abittenbinder

Doktor A (864-623-9110)
Is a cracked or split intercooler hose a 'low boost' issue?

Could the crank position sensor have anything to do with the power loss? I have a spare, how hard is it to replace?
Minor leakage of the intercooler, hoses, turbo resonator will set the low boost code on a 647.

The crank sensor? It can cause stalling but you won't know which fault codes are implicated in your LHM episodes without that snap shot data. Doktor A
 

leroy

New member
I had the dealer email me the specific outputs of the DTC scan in the mechanic's report:

1617-002 ECM READ ERROR
1222-002 ACC PEDAL POSITION SENSOR 1 CKT SIGNAL VOLTS TO LOW
1234-002 ACCEL PEDAL SIGNAL POSITION 2CKT TO LOW
2322-001 CRANKSHAFT SENSOR PLAUSIBILTY
2356-008 ECM INTERNAL ERROR

BRAKE PEDAL SENSOR PLAUSIBILTY
SMOKE CHECKED FOR TURBO BOOST LEAKS NONE FOUND.

Service manager says no snapshot data is avail. Actually what he said is that the odometer readings did not 'correspond correctly' and were not useful. What he is doing is repeating second hand what the technician is telling him and both of them are tired of me asking questions. Their solution is to replace the ECM ($2200) and drive it around until it fails and then look at the codes again.

I have found a used ECM for a considerably less. Is this something I can setup myself with the DAD?
 
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maxextz

Rollin Rollin Rollin.....
blocked/dirty fuel filter? and the turbo hose better to inspect it by taking it off instead of in place inspection.
max........:2cents:
ps best of luck.
 

sikwan

06 Tin Can
Have you checked the accelerator pedal connection?

I guess the only thing you could do is to unplug it, verify that there's no problems with the connection/wiring, and plug it back in.

EDIT: Reading the error again, there could be some wire chaffing somewhere. Verify the wiring around the ECU. The area is right below the steering wheel.
 

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