PDA

View Full Version : Oil for High Mileage Engine


NomadJeep
01-05-2010, 02:24 AM
My Sprinter has 240k miles on it and I am still using Mobil 1 0w-40 oil. A local tech was telling me I should switch to a thicker oil for such a high mileage engine. Just wondering if you all had any thoughts.

I have to make an appointment at the dealer, being I have been seeing some oil in the intake hose. At the clip where the hose meets the intake, and then the box where the hose goes below the battery is all wet, and oily.... so who knows....

sikwan
01-05-2010, 03:02 AM
If nothing is wrong with the oil that you're using, I would just stick with it.

Aqua Puttana
01-05-2010, 03:44 AM
I can't disagree with Sikwan. Many people use and recommend Mobile 1 0w - 40 European Formula that meets the Mercedes specs.

FWIW. I personally recently changed to using Shell Rotella T 5W - 40 full synthetic (blue container) mostly because of price and availability. About $21.00/gallon @ Walmart. My decision was based upon the MB 228.31 spec shown on the label, price, and what I read in searches about the product. We've hit some single digit Fahrenheit temperatures and the engine still seems to spin well. I guess only time will tell whether my decision is a good one.

20155

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shell_Rotella_T

Hope this does some good. AP/vic

sikwan
01-05-2010, 05:05 AM
I use that stuff in my motorcycle. :hmmm: Thanks, Vic.

Hoppingmad
01-05-2010, 02:31 PM
Its not in my walmart today!
I put it in my goldwing. My goldwing forum says it doesn't have the friction modifiers mobil1 has and doesn't cause problems with wet clutches. Seems to work, but I don't drag race with the wing, and really give the slippage a test.

228.31 that OK for my brothers 08 ncv3 or shall we continue looking for m1 formula m 229.51 for less then $9.00
He's been using a local chrysler dealer (non sprinter) who charges him $120 w filter. We suspect he's not using the right stuff at that price.

talkinghorse43
01-05-2010, 04:16 PM
My Sprinter has 240k miles on it and I am still using Mobil 1 0w-40 oil. A local tech was telling me I should switch to a thicker oil for such a high mileage engine. Just wondering if you all had any thoughts.

I have to make an appointment at the dealer, being I have been seeing some oil in the intake hose. At the clip where the hose meets the intake, and then the box where the hose goes below the battery is all wet, and oily.... so who knows....

My '02 only has 194k and I'm still running 0w40. I recently installed an oil pressure gauge anticipating oil pressure might start to drop in the future and I could then change based on real data. Right now (daytime temps in the low 30s), the gauge shows 80-90 psig (probably the relief valve setting) when cold and is about equal to the indicated speed when in 5th gear and warm (ie, 70 indicated is 70 psig). At idle, pressure is 26 psig. Seems to me 0w40 is still ideal for my '02. I wouldn't be able to make an informed decision on changing oil grade without some sort of data showing loss of pressure.

My '02 is still using <1/2 qt in 15k miles, but if yours is using excessively (1100/qt is max), then you could be due to change grade.

Concerning the apparent oil leaks, it's perfectly normal to have oil in the charge air piping. Trace the intake piping and you'll see the engine breather dumps into the turbo inlet. I too had a drip at the clip and replaced the O-ring there. Sounds like you may need to tighten the clamps securing the charge air hoses at the IAT & boost pressure sensor fixture.

KL2BE
01-05-2010, 07:05 PM
My Sprinter has 240k miles on it and I am still using Mobil 1 0w-40 oil. A local tech was telling me I should switch to a thicker oil for such a high mileage engine. Just wondering if you all had any thoughts.

..

Your "tech" is more full of myths than knowledge.
If you really want to dig into this go to http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/ :thumbup:.
In any event, it may be hard to find a straight 40 or 50 weight that meets MB specs. As to a 5w-40 versus a 0w-40 they should hold the same viscosity at full operating temp of 190F. It's only at start-up that the 0w-40 will be lower viscosity than the 5w-40 and then only a tad.
If you need a straight 50 weight oil to maintain oil-pressure, you need a rebuild.

mackconsult
01-05-2010, 07:15 PM
I am going to look for this stuff for now on. If I can get it for $21 a gallon I can commonize on it for the sprinter, TDI passat, and even my XR600R motorcycle. Got to love that :bounce:.

I can't disagree with Sikwan. Many people use and recommend Mobile 1 0w - 40 European Formula that meets the Mercedes specs.

FWIW. I personally recently changed to using Shell Rotella T 5W - 40 full synthetic (blue container) mostly because of price and availability. About $21.00/gallon @ Walmart. My decision was based upon the MB 228.31 spec shown on the label, price, and what I read in searches about the product. We've hit some single digit Fahrenheit temperatures and the engine still seems to spin well. I guess only time will tell whether my decision is a good one.

20155

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shell_Rotella_T

Hope this does some good. AP/vic

Mike Horton
01-05-2010, 09:45 PM
Over the road truckers almost exclusively use Rotella . My independent Sprinter repair guy swears by it.

Aqua Puttana
01-05-2010, 11:24 PM
....

228.31 that OK for my brothers 08 ncv3 or shall we continue looking for m1 formula m 229.51 for less then $9.00
....
I believe I read that MB 229.31 is OK for the 2007 NCV3 OM642 engine, but not for 2008 and newer because they need ESP low ash formula? I own a T1N so.... you should verify if maybe you can use it by using the forum search. Perhaps there's a break point early year in 2008 models?? Oil has been discussed at length here. AP/vic

rvdriverca
01-06-2010, 06:04 AM
:2cents:Aqua puttana wrote--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
____________________
I can't disagree with Sikwan. Many people use and recommend Mobile 1 0w - 40 European Formula that meets the Mercedes specs.

FWIW. I personally recently changed to using Shell Rotella T 5W - 40 full synthetic (blue container) mostly because of price and availability. About $21.00/gallon @ Walmart. My decision was based upon the MB 228.31 spec shown on the label, price, and what I read in searches about the product. We've hit some single digit Fahrenheit temperatures and the engine still seems to spin well. I guess only time will tell whether my decision is a good one.

__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________________
I did the same, change to Shell rotella T 5W - 40, But now I'm not so sure it's the right thing because The book spec is 228.31 BUT the spec shown on the jug of Shell rotella T 5W- 40 oil is 228.3 the 1 is missing. Somebody smarter than me could give us the answer.:2cents::bash: regards.

stp57
01-06-2010, 06:32 AM
My 2006 has 90K miles & I have Blackstone analyze my Rotella T (non- synthetic) every 10K before I do my oil change & they tell that I can hold off till 12K. This last time I sent my sample in over 11K & now they say that my oil will be good till 15K. I don't see the reasoning for expensive synthetic oil with the mileage that I get out of dino oil?
Steve

Aqua Puttana
01-06-2010, 06:49 AM
....

I did the same, change to Shell rotella T 5W - 40, But now I'm not so sure it's the right thing because The book spec is 228.31 BUT the spec shown on the jug of Shell rotella T 5W- 40 oil is 228.3 the 1 is missing. Somebody smarter than me could give us the answer.:2cents::bash: regards.
You don't say what year you have. It'd be helpful if you included that info in your signature.

I'm not necessarily smarter than you. Is your oil in a white jug (dino) or blue (full synthetic)?

From my notes:
"As I understand it (please correct me if you disagree) '03-'06 North American 2.7 liter Sprinter Turbo-Diesels can use MB 229.3, 229.5, 228.3 or 228.5. NOT 229.1"

Nobody ever disagreed.

I have also read that the 228.31 and 229.51 (which are newer standards) are compatible with the NAFTA 2.7L diesel engine. I couldn't find the source in my notes. Hope this helps. AP/vic

Stp57,
I use Shell Rotella T 5w-40 full synthetic because the only dino Rotella T I've found common in our area is 15w-40 which is too heavy for our cold winter temperatures. Other than that, I have found no reasons that Shell Rotella T dino is not a good choice. AP/vic

Ciprian
01-06-2010, 06:48 PM
My 2006 has 90K miles & I have Blackstone analyze my Rotella T (non- synthetic) every 10K before I do my oil change & they tell that I can hold off till 12K. This last time I sent my sample in over 11K & now they say that my oil will be good till 15K. I don't see the reasoning for expensive synthetic oil with the mileage that I get out of dino oil?
Steve

I've got over 300k on my 2004 on dyno oil. I use one of the following, depending on sales I can find, all MB approved. Mobil Delvac 15w40, Shell Rotella T 15w40, Chevron Delo 15w40.
I also sent a few oil samples to Blackstone and every time they told me that the oil is still good to more and more miles. I used to change it at 10k, then I increased it gradually to 15k. And my engine is wearing less than the average Blackstone has analyzed.
Why would I use more expensive oil when my engine is very happy on cheap, good dyno oil.

Hoppingmad
01-07-2010, 12:54 AM
I've heard about these oil tests,
Blackstone send a kit or we just put it in an old pepsi bottle and mail it
May have to search for blackstone, at least I can mail him a sample. DrA wants us to bring the whole vehicle.
Maybe I can find a reason to go thru Penn, and something the wife would like to see nearby.

famof8
01-07-2010, 01:46 AM
I hope I am not damned for posting this, but I found this article from September's issue of Trailer Life magazine to be a wealth of knowledge.

Oil’s Well
Everything you need to know about motor oil is on the label … if you know how to read it
by Chris Hemer
Trailer Life, September 2009

We’ve all looked at a container of oil at one time or another and wondered what everything on its label meant, or even if the oil we’re using is the best grade for the job. But by the time you get home from the auto-parts store, your mind is probably focused on more important things, and you don’t think about it again until it’s time for another oil change. But motor oil is an interesting, sometimes complex subject that deserves your attention — and if what you’ve wanted is someone to break it down for you in laymen’s terms, this story is for you.

Read The Label
Just about everything you need to know about oil is on the American Petroleum Institute (API) “donut” on the back of the bottle — that is, if you know how to decipher its meanings. At the top, you’ll see the words “API Service,” followed by two or more letters. Designations beginning with the letter S (such as SM, SL, SJ) are service categories designed for gasoline-burning, or S for spark ignition, engines. Those beginning with C (such as CJ-4, CI-4, CH-4 and CG-4) are commercial categories designed for diesel, or C for compression ignition, applications. See the sidebar on page 40 for an explanation of these codes.

In the center of the donut are the numbers that will most likely concern you; these numbers indicate the viscosity grade of the oil. Put simply, viscosity is a measure of an oil’s thickness typically expressed in numbered grades ranging from 5 (thinnest) to 50 (thickest). Established by the Society of Automotive Engineers, (SAE) an oil’s viscosity was originally a single grade, or “straight weight,” but that changed when the SAE added winter grade-designations, indicated by a “W” after the viscosity grade (i.e. 10W). Engineers realized that the existing grade specification did not adequately identify the cold-weather characteristics of a particular oil; depending on what region the crude came from (the United States or Persian Gulf, for example), two oils with the same grade could exhibit very different viscosities.

The evolution of motor oil took another big step a short time later, when advances in petrochemical engineering led to the development of viscosity enhancers that made it possible for a single oil to serve double duty in both low and high temperatures. These became known as “multigrade” oils, and are the ones we are familiar with today. These oils from brands such as Royal Purple, Shell Rotella T, Amsoil and Chevron flow a like lower-viscosity oil to make it possible for oil to flow easily to critical engine components in freezing temperatures, but then protect like a heavier weight oil at the SAE-specified 210 F. Hence the oils we’re all familiar with: 10W-30, 10W-40, etc.

Today’s engines are assembled with greater precision and have tighter tolerances than the engines of yesteryear, which is why 5W-30 is the most common automotive oil grade for gasoline engines, 15W-40 for diesels. Typically, it is recommended that you stick with the oil grade recommended by the manufacturer, but this is not always the case. Bear in mind that the manufacturer’s recommendation is based on a new or as-new engine operated in a typical environment; a high-mileage engine, or one operated in extreme heat or cold may be better suited to a different oil grade. Moreover, oils have a temperature operating range, so if you’re in a jam and need to add a quart or two of oil to your engine, but your grade isn’t available, you’ll be fine to select a different grade. For example, the API cites 5W-20, 5W-30, 10W-30, 10W-40 and 20W-50 as being suitable for passenger cars operated at temperatures no lower than 32 F.

Oils designated for gasoline-burning passenger cars and light trucks will have “Energy Conserving” displayed at the bottom of the donut, indicating that the oil has been formulated to conserve fuel. For diesel applications, you will find the CI-4 PLUS designation. Used in conjunction with API CI-4 and CJ-4, the CI-4 PLUS designation identifies oils formulated to provide a higher level of protection against soot-related viscosity increase and loss in diesel engines. Elsewhere on the label, you may find reference to “ILSAC,” which means that the oil meets the current engine protection and fuel-economy standards of the International Lubricant Standardization and Approval Committee, a joint effort of U.S. and Japanese automobile manufacturers.

Synthetic Oils
Though synthetic oils were introduced to the mainstream consumer market decades ago, there still exists an abundance of uncertainty, misinformation and outright falsehoods on the subject. First off, synthetic oil isn’t really synthetic — it still uses a petroleum “base stock,” which is transformed using a process known as organic synthesis.

When oil is pumped out of the ground, it has hydrocarbon chain links of all sizes, which create two issues. One, the chains have gaps which allow oxidation and breakdown to occur. Two, the lighter molecules will eventually boil off, leaving the heavier molecules behind. This not only changes the viscosity of the oil, it also leads to sludge and varnish build-up.

When the petroleum-oil base stock undergoes organic synthesis, however, uniform molecular structure is achieved, and a “perfect” oil is created. This offers a number of benefits, including greater film strength (for better wear protection), a lower pour point (for easier pumping in cold weather) and greater lubricity, which can result in reduced operating temperature, improved fuel economy and more power. And as we mentioned earlier, synthetic oils are less volatile and therefore not prone to “boil off” like traditional petroleum-based oils are.

It is a commonly held belief that synthetic oils should not be used in a new engine, but many high-performance vehicles such as the Corvette and Viper come from the factory filled with synthetic oil, as do many European imports. There has also been some concern that synthetic oils can cause oil leaks in older engines, as the higher detergent qualities of synthetic can wash away varnish that keeps gaskets sealed. This can, in fact, take place — but it depends largely on the engine, its mileage and overall condition.

Change Intervals
Oil-change intervals have historically been another topic of debate, but realistically, how often you change your oil has a lot to do with the age of your vehicle and the way you drive (mostly city, or mostly highway). Years ago, presiding engine technologies mandated that oil be changed around every 3,000 miles or so, but that’s not the case today. Recall that most engines from the mid 1980s and earlier had less-evolved fuel and ignition systems, so the oil got dirtier and/or contaminated more quickly.

Today’s engines can often go 7,000-10,000 miles before a change is needed, again, depending on how the vehicle is driven (see your owner’s manual for the recommended change interval). Proof of this can be found in the oil life systems used by some newer vehicles. These systems assess exactly when the oil should be changed based on climate conditions and how you have used the vehicle. General Motors estimates that its vehicles’ systems allow its customers to go from five oil changes a year to only two or three. From a cost standpoint the 3,000-mile oil change interval is still a lot cheaper than an engine rebuild, and it certainly won’t harm anything.

Synthetic oils, such as those offered by Amsoil, Bardahl and Shell Rotella T, can go even longer between oil changes, because they don’t break down and become sludgy. In fact, some synthetic motor oils have a recommended change interval of 25,000 miles or one year; you simply replace the filter after six months, and top it off with more oil. But a change eventually becomes necessary because, although the oil itself doesn’t break down, its detergents and additives eventually will. If in doubt, you can always send out a sample of your engine’s oil for analysis to determine its condition. Several synthetic oil companies offer this service, as do many other companies you can find on the Internet by typing in the words, “engine-oil analysis” in your search engine.

If you omit the technical details of refining and testing, understanding today’s engine oils isn’t difficult. Use the recommended oil for your application, keep the fill level up and change it when necessary, and motor oil will serve you (and your engine) well for many years to come.

End of article

Copied from Trailer Life Magazine - September 2009

cahaak
01-07-2010, 05:14 AM
For folks who are located in the upper Midwest and might be interested in trying the Rotella T6, I just wanted to let you know that it is stocked at Menards stores. Currently, with the 15% off everything that you can fit into the green bag sale (through 1-10), you can get the T6 for $18.10 / gallon, which is the best price that I have seen this oil at.

Certainly for some folks it may not make sense to go to an oil like this, but given the low temps that we see up here (and are currently seeing), its really nice to have an oil with a lower viscosity at these cold temps.

Chris

Ciprian
01-07-2010, 03:00 PM
I've heard about these oil tests,
Blackstone send a kit or we just put it in an old pepsi bottle and mail it
May have to search for blackstone, at least I can mail him a sample. DrA wants us to bring the whole vehicle.
Maybe I can find a reason to go thru Penn, and something the wife would like to see nearby.

Blackstone sends you free kits.
Check it out here (http://www.blackstone-labs.com/).

mackconsult
01-07-2010, 07:32 PM
Last night I walked my oil aisle at walmart. What about this oil? I am debating about whether its worth using a synthetic in my sprinter van, especially because I am using WVO and depending on blackstone sampling to tell me what my change interval will become.

One benefit of using this oil is that it would be common to my TDI passat, and XR600R motorcycle.

Currently using Delo 15-40 in my sprinter, at about $11/gallon. Switching to syn would make it twice as expensive in the van.

http://www.shell.com/home/Framework?siteId=rotella-en&FC2=/rotella-en/html/iwgen/products/zzz_lhn.html&FC3=/rotella-en/html/iwgen/products/t6_detail.html

sikwan
01-08-2010, 12:22 AM
If Delo is half the price and it meets the specs, I would continue using the cheaper one. :idunno:

KL2BE
01-08-2010, 02:08 AM
I've got over 300k on my 2004 on dyno oil. I use one of the following, depending on sales I can find, all MB approved. Mobil Delvac 15w40, Shell Rotella T 15w40, Chevron Delo 15w40.
I also sent a few oil samples to Blackstone and every time they told me that the oil is still good to more and more miles. I used to change it at 10k, then I increased it gradually to 15k. And my engine is wearing less than the average Blackstone has analyzed.
Why would I use more expensive oil when my engine is very happy on cheap, good dyno oil.

Could you be my twin separated at birth :thinking: ??
My exact experience (but with far fewer miles on the clock) and my opinion as well :professor:.
Only reason to spend twice as much for synthetic is if you are starting up w/o a garage in temps below 15 F.
I like all the oils mentioned, but usually get Mobil Delvac 1300 15w-40 because it is $9/gallon at our local WalMart.

Aqua Puttana
01-08-2010, 03:18 AM
...
Only reason to spend twice as much for synthetic is if you are starting up w/o a garage in temps below 15 F.
...
Bingo! I had even filled with Rotella T 15w-40 until I figured out I hadn't thought about our low temperatures and viscosity. I drained and saved my 600 mile 15w-40 for the future? The trouble is that I don't put on enough miles to need a summer change. Oh well, at least the Shell Rotella T 5w-40 full synthetic isn't all that expensive compared to Mobile 1 European Formula.

FWIW. Between the MB228.31 spec rated Rotella motor oil and the 134 MB236.14 spec transmission fluid available through Ryder, Shell products seem the best route to me for T1N Sprinter owners.

http://www.ryderfleetproducts.com/cgi-bin/ryderfp/products/srm/oid/168044/pn/Auto-Transmission-Fluid-Shell-134-for-Sprinter/erm/product_detail.jsp

AP/vic

talkinghorse43
01-08-2010, 04:21 PM
When thinking about maybe changing from 0w40, I remember this from the '03 service manual:

"Full synthetic oils, such as Mobilt 1 0W-40, is
required if the ASSYST Oil Service Reminder is followed.
Use of a lower quality oil on this service
schedule may cause severe engine damage."

"NOTE: The engine manufacturer strongly recommends
the use of synthetic engine oils, such as
TMobil 1 SAE 0W-40."

In the '06 owner's manual, these requirements were tempered to say any oil meeting MB's specs (as low as 228.3) was OK, but I'm thinking the '03 service manual was least influenced by Chrysler's market considerations and more the opinion of the German designers.

Aqua Puttana
01-08-2010, 05:50 PM
...
In the '06 owner's manual, these requirements were tempered to say any oil meeting MB's specs (as low as 228.3) was OK, but I'm thinking the '03 service manual was least influenced by Chrysler's market considerations and more the opinion of the German designers.
You're correct that you can't go too far wrong by following the manual. I think the Blackstone oil test results which have been revealed over time on this forum show that the dino 15w - 40 MB228.3 will get you to 15,000 miles without problem. My ASSYST reminder typically counts down to 15 - 16,000 miles so it appears the two are in the same ballpark.

In my previous career we used various oil testing methods and labs for liquid filled power transformers, oil switches, larger HVAC centrifugal compressors, large air compressor, large machinery transmissions, and fleet vehicles with good success. I'm convinced it is worth listening to the results. I think whether it's cost effective for a personal vehicle to regularly test is a choice which only the individual owner can make. Certainly if you pay the money for the oil testing service you'd be foolish to not follow the recommendations which are based upon their results. AP/vic

talkinghorse43
01-08-2010, 07:47 PM
In my previous career we used various oil testing methods and labs for liquid filled power transformers, oil switches, larger HVAC centrifugal compressors, large air compressor, large machinery transmissions, and fleet vehicles with good success. I'm convinced it is worth listening to the results. I think whether it's cost effective for a personal vehicle to regularly test is a choice which only the individual owner can make. Certainly if you pay the money for the oil testing service you'd be foolish to not follow the recommendations which are based upon their results. AP/vic

On the other hand, I worry about possibilities that oil analysis won't necessarily measure; like sludge (from soot) buildup in low flow areas. I worry (if I use lower quality and cheaper oil) some buildup might break loose and cause a problem like loss of spray to the back of a piston (a couple instances of this have been reported on this forum) resulting in piston seizure and a blown engine. The probablity is most likely remote, but MB designers have seen a whole boatload more of this than I, so I tend to go with their recommendations.

Unless I have reason to suspect a coolant leak, I think oil analysis is not warranted.

mackconsult
01-08-2010, 08:28 PM
Unless you are running biodiesel or veggie oil .....



Unless I have reason to suspect a coolant leak, I think oil analysis is not warranted.

d_bertko
01-08-2010, 08:58 PM
Just came back from AutoZone. They have a special on Mobil1, including the 0-40 euro stuff, of $29.99 for 5 qts and a free oil filter. Unsurprisingly, the Mobil filter for my T1n was not carried but they substituted the STP filter for the Sprinter. (Does anyone know if the STP filter is ok? I would have gotten a Mobil brand filter for my Subie if they hadn't allowed me the STP brand.)

Here's a link to a some tests of one dino and ten syn oil brands. Not a long-term wear test and used a gasoline engine in any case. But the horsepower chart is revealing. The Mobil 0-40 generally produced the most horsepower and was around 4% better than the dino stuff. The text has an error or two and the site has an Amsoil sponsor but the chart shows clear results. http://www.performanceoilnews.com/oils_against_oils.shtml

I have also seen expert articles that seem to agree that syn vs dino results in about 1% better mpg. It is useful to see the horsepower chart give some support to that.

So syn is ideal for performance nuts, heavy loaders, or mountain men because of the additional power. Less important for relaxed flatlanders with light loads.

That 1% better fuel economy argument goes like this:
10000 mi @ 20 mpg = 500 gal of diesel used. 1% of that is 5 gal, or around $15 at my current price. (Could be $30 savings for ASSYST users that work their vans hard.) In locales where diesel pricing has a heftier tax the argument also leans toward syn use.

The long term wear of syn vs dino is harder to decide since things like detergent additives might be found in both. I'd guess that the comparison might have to be done by some big fleet owners. It would be interesting to see if this group has enough high mileage members to point to a conclusion.

Dan

abittenbinder
01-08-2010, 09:05 PM
Here's a link to a some tests of one dino and ten syn oil brands. Not a long-term wear test and used a gasoline engine in any case
Dan

In terms of motor oil requirements, the light duty Sprinter engine has far more in common with the spark ignition engines in that test than it shares with heavy duty diesel engines using Delvac oils. Doktor A

Aqua Puttana
01-08-2010, 09:54 PM
....
The probability is most likely remote, but MB designers have seen a whole boatload more of this than I, so I tend to go with their recommendations.

Unless I have reason to suspect a coolant leak, I think oil analysis is not warranted.
TH43,
First let me say that I always appreciate your opinions and the help you offer here.

Not to be argumentative (although I guess I am), but I would agree more if we were talking about some off label products. The facts as I see them are that the dino oils being discussed are reputable products that have made the effort (and $$$ investment?) necessary to meet the MB specs. These products actually are recommended by the MB designers. I think this discussion of using less expense products within the recommended and approved Mercedes list is not in any way approaching substandard engine damaging choices.

All that said, I have been to Bobistheoilguy and some other sites to try and figure some of this oil selection business out. The best I've come out with is that I still don't know much. I was willing to take the chance with the non-MB approved Mobile 1 Turbo-Diesel Truck 5w - 40. (Actually that stuff got harder to find and the price went up.) That was until I found the MB approved Shell Rotella T oil choices. Given their price range I no longer see any reason to not stick with MB approved products. Hope this does some good. AP/vic

Aqua Puttana
01-08-2010, 11:23 PM
... (Does anyone know if the STP filter is ok? ...
MIG edit
Dan
FWIW. I have no experience with STP specifically. I consider STP a name brand. If I had one I'd use it rather than have it go to the trash. I wouldn't seek out a STP brand filter for my Sprinter.

If it doesn't come with new O-rings I wouldn't sweat that either. Because I needed to do an assessment (Yep, I clumsily dropped an o-ring and lost it during a filter change. I found it laying on a support the next oil change. Go figure??? Anybody need a new o-ring???) I feel there is little danger with re-using the existing o-rings once. There is a very minimal risk of by-pass within the filter path. If the cover o-ring leaks you'll be the first to know by the mess. As long as you inspect the o-rings for damage before installation I think leaking for just one re-use is a very doubtful scenario. Hope this does some good. AP/vic

mackconsult
01-08-2010, 11:30 PM
As a mechanical engineer static oring seals are designed for their squish, temperature, and material capability. I would say its very low risk of a leak if you reuse one of these orings. Especially seeing as the oil pressure is not really that high compared to design parameters of orings. if there is any question of reusing an oring, just do a once over glance at it looking for any imperfections or deformations. I "set" oring is a bad oring to use.

FWIW. I have no experience with STP specifically. I consider STP a name brand. If I had one I'd use it rather than have it go to the trash. I wouldn't seek out a STP brand filter for my Sprinter.

If it doesn't come with new O-rings I wouldn't sweat that either. Because I needed to do an assessment (Yep, I clumsily dropped an o-ring and lost it during a filter change. I found it laying on a support the next oil change. Go figure??? Anybody need a new o-ring???) I feel there is little danger with re-using the existing o-rings once. There is a very minimal risk of by-pass within the filter path. If the cover o-ring leaks you'll be the first to know by the mess. As long as you inspect the o-rings for damage before installation I think leaking for just one re-use is a very doubtful scenario. Hope this does some good. AP/vic

d_bertko
01-09-2010, 12:32 AM
Yes, Yankee thrift makes me want to use the free " name brand" filter and to reuse the old oring if necessary!

QUOTE mackconsult;77766]As a mechanical engineer static oring seals are designed for their squish, temperature, and material capability. I would say its very low risk of a leak if you reuse one of these orings. Especially seeing as the oil pressure is not really that high compared to design parameters of orings. if there is any question of reusing an oring, just do a once over glance at it looking for any imperfections or deformations. I "set" oring is a bad oring to use.
Quote vic:
FWIW. I have no experience with STP specifically. I consider STP a name brand. If I had one I'd use it rather than have it go to the trash. I wouldn't seek out a STP brand filter for my Sprinter.
If it doesn't come with new O-rings I wouldn't sweat that either. Because I needed to do an assessment (Yep, I clumsily dropped an o-ring and lost it during a filter change. I found it laying on a support the next oil change. Go figure??? Anybody need a new o-ring???) I feel there is little danger with re-using the existing o-rings once. There is a very minimal risk of by-pass within the filter path. If the cover o-ring leaks you'll be the first to know by the mess. As long as you inspect the o-rings for damage before installation I think leaking for just one re-use is a very doubtful scenario. Hope this does some good. AP/vic

Ciprian
01-11-2010, 01:26 PM
If I remember correctly, I looked at these oil filters a while ago. The STP filter is actually a MANN filter repackaged. Just open the thing and look inside.

Just came back from AutoZone. They have a special on Mobil1, including the 0-40 euro stuff, of $29.99 for 5 qts and a free oil filter. Unsurprisingly, the Mobil filter for my T1n was not carried but they substituted the STP filter for the Sprinter. (Does anyone know if the STP filter is ok? I would have gotten a Mobil brand filter for my Subie if they hadn't allowed me the STP brand.)

Here's a link to a some tests of one dino and ten syn oil brands. Not a long-term wear test and used a gasoline engine in any case. But the horsepower chart is revealing. The Mobil 0-40 generally produced the most horsepower and was around 4% better than the dino stuff. The text has an error or two and the site has an Amsoil sponsor but the chart shows clear results. http://www.performanceoilnews.com/oils_against_oils.shtml

I have also seen expert articles that seem to agree that syn vs dino results in about 1% better mpg. It is useful to see the horsepower chart give some support to that.

So syn is ideal for performance nuts, heavy loaders, or mountain men because of the additional power. Less important for relaxed flatlanders with light loads.

That 1% better fuel economy argument goes like this:
10000 mi @ 20 mpg = 500 gal of diesel used. 1% of that is 5 gal, or around $15 at my current price. (Could be $30 savings for ASSYST users that work their vans hard.) In locales where diesel pricing has a heftier tax the argument also leans toward syn use.

The long term wear of syn vs dino is harder to decide since things like detergent additives might be found in both. I'd guess that the comparison might have to be done by some big fleet owners. It would be interesting to see if this group has enough high mileage members to point to a conclusion.

Dan

indiangauge
03-24-2010, 04:14 PM
My Sprinter has 240k miles on it and I am still using Mobil 1 0w-40 oil. A local tech was telling me I should switch to a thicker oil for such a high mileage engine. Just wondering if you all had any thoughts.

I have to make an appointment at the dealer, being I have been seeing some oil in the intake hose. At the clip where the hose meets the intake, and then the box where the hose goes below the battery is all wet, and oily.... so who knows....

If you are seeing oil at the intake on top of the engine where the hose goes into the manifold, it is most likely the garrett turbocharger that the seals have gone bad. If you remove the hose (pull up on the wire clip, then pull hose out of manifold), you will most likely find oil inside this hose, it should be dry if the turbo is not "pushing oil". This usually doesn't hurt its performance as it is sucked into the engine and burnt out, but it is a good case to have it repaired or replaced. I would stick to the recommended 5w-40 diesel oil, I use Amsoil with excellent results.

Gauge-guy

Aqua Puttana
03-24-2010, 07:37 PM
Deja vu from the Yahoo Sprintervan forum.
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/sprintervan/message/55124

I personally would not ever change or rebuild a Sprinter turbo based only upon oil being found in the charge air system. Rather than try to convey the message, this is a recent quote from Sprintguy Carl while answering another issue. He is a very good contributor to the Sprinter-source forum.
***
"Oil in the charge air lines is absolutely normal, and it is not from "turbo lubrication". The oil is a result of the crankcase ventilation recovery system that all Sprinters have (03-present). The leak in question is when the o-ring tears or cracks and releases some pressure from the charge air system which is accompanied by the oil from the CCV system, in turn saturating the swirl port actuator linkage and causing premature wearing of the linkage pivots. Your issue sounds more like a boosted air leak, or something else. The first test would be to pressurize the Charge air system (no more than 20psi) and inspect for leaks or blockages. Note: I personally recommend anytime the pipe from the turbo to the resonator is removed you should replace that o-ring (just in case).

Carl"
***
The original thread is here:
post #23

http://sprinter-source.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7224

Hope this does some good. vic



If you are seeing oil at the intake on top of the engine where the hose goes into the manifold, it is most likely the garrett turbocharger that the seals have gone bad. If you remove the hose (pull up on the wire clip, then pull hose out of manifold), you will most likely find oil inside this hose, it should be dry if the turbo is not "pushing oil". This usually doesn't hurt its performance as it is sucked into the engine and burnt out, but it is a good case to have it repaired or replaced. I would stick to the recommended 5w-40 diesel oil, I use Amsoil with excellent results.

Gauge-guy