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gerrym51
03-26-2007, 09:13 PM
i am trying to decide on gas or diesel. my present concern is
the dpf (diesel particulate filter) on 2007 sprinter vans.

i have read prices as high as 800.00 dolaars to replace every 60,000 miles

is this cost borne by dodge. if not this adds to cost of using diesel

saving on diesel can be highly illusionary

gerry

sikwan
03-26-2007, 10:18 PM
if not this adds to cost of using diesel

saving on diesel can be highly illusionary

That's probably not the only thing. There's already a premium added to just buying the diesel version. Something like $3k - $5k extra?

Seek

poolmike
03-27-2007, 04:27 AM
I just drove the new diesel a few hours ago. It runs smooooooooth. I like the power and the new larger size. The prices were kind of insane, but they all come with cruise control and TILT WHEEL!!! I haven't heard anything about the particle filters, and I just can't get past the MASSIVE grey body molding.

sikwan
03-27-2007, 04:33 AM
I just can't get past the MASSIVE grey body molding.

Good for preventing bad body dings. :smilewink:

Altered Sprinter
03-27-2007, 05:13 AM
Especially with K mart trolley rash.
Guys the V6 is nothing special Chrysler's has them in other brands the diff is they are H/D for tough use Mercedes at a pinch could service this engine as it's a 2002 copy of the sedan engine, whats the diff! Just heavy duty injectors pistons valves and crank etc, I just had my boys to service my van in Alice Springs, the MB mechanic had never done one before , but he said there was little differences between the sedans and my 06 V6 , electronic codes were the same too, however Mercedes v Dodge is another story .
First service at 36 thousand Ks cost $768.00 AU, the particulate filter will go to 150 thousand ks and longer its not a proven filter for the Sprinter as of yet???
Apparently the fuel consumption varies between 21 to 24 MPG depending on what speed your driving at, looking at my fuel accounts over thirty six thousand Ks I'd say 22.5 MPG is an average, this van pulls five ton and carries three ton all the time.
time will tell But I am after another one, so I have no issues with the new Sprinter yet?:thinking:
Richard

gerrym51
03-28-2007, 02:07 AM
its not how long it lasts.
its the question whether or not the added costs if replacing the
diesel particullate filter every 60,000 to 90,000 miles lessens
the value of buying diesel engine. here in the US diesel often
costs more than gas. any added costs make the gas engine a better alternative

sikwan
03-28-2007, 04:52 AM
It looks like DPF's are going to be a part of every diesel that will be sold from now on. I haven't crunched the numbers, but you're right that it'll add an additional premium to an already expensive (diesel) option if a replacement is needed every 90k miles.

Maybe as the numbers of DPF's increase in usage, the prices will eventually go down.

Ford is already having a problem with theirs...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v36MCcRPRTc

...not necessarily the DPF, but the fuel leaking into the DPF.

Altered Sprinter
03-28-2007, 12:25 PM
I can see where you guys are having concerns to the filters in question and costs.
It's new to you with Sprinters 2007 onwards where we are used to the system for Euro 4 standards for exhaust emissions , the filter is designed to capture 90 to 95% of particle soots below 2.5g
Cost 5 to ten cent per gallon of fuel used .
ULSD only no other fuel can be used unless stated by Mercedes-Benz
However these engines run on B20 and is approved in Europe
US has yet to give a B rating, or I'm not aware of a rating by DCX as of yet, too lazy I haven't looked sorry.
Oil has to be different to the older Sprinters and those 'bloody' oil filters you have wont work
where your looking at 2.88
The new rating for oil which has a low ash content starts at 2.119 2.229
Mobil extra H/D synthetic oil 5-40 for particulate filters, , this I have used since 2005 what ever is in this oil has the magic properties of keeping the particles of waste permanently suspended, oil changes will go to 36Ks
I've proved it already but I use upper cylinder lubes as well to keep the fuel at maximum efficacy for the Mercedes System not one single breakdown and thats is on a 2005 Mercedes Sprinter imported from Austria
Yes the Diesel costs more "SO What" you get what you pay for..
This is because of environmental issues, weather you agree with it or not is out of your hands! 'its here to stay', and we are paying for the reduction of emissions that contribute towards green house gas emissions.
2008 Blutec will be on line in Australia by 2009 every vehicle will be using this system the system is different as it uses a filter trap at the end of the exhaust, which is serviced at a required service date , it's one third of the price , but you pay for the Blutec addative, which the U.S is reluctant to take on as to the costs of distribution through out the N/American continent , where it only has a three percent energy use of diesel products,at the moment.
The question is do you continue to buy gas model vehicles? If you do your homework, they just are not viable as to where is the fuel to come from?
that can be continued to be sold at prices the U.S folk are used to!
Oil has gone up again so expect gas prices to increase a little more , have you noticed at the pumps they go up but never come down to older prices even when the crude price is set at the older prices of 50 bucks a barrel , oil refineries are limited to what they can produce as demand increases for fuels and oils, I don't see the U,S building new refineries to cope with future demand except adding more lines to pump a few extra gallons of fuel out, which makes the facilities more and more unsafe to operate. look at the History of U.S refinery's and the accidents that have resulted since 1972, it will take a decade of fast tracking to rebuild new refineries for expected mid peak demand by 2015, the theory is oil will be at peak demand by 2030, where it can not keep up with Global demand, thus prices will be at all time high prices, I'd hate to think what the future will be when the time clock stops.Not that it will worry me I'll be fertilizing the ground with my pet worms:smilewink:
Bio ethanol fuels will never make a dent in the States past six percent max as to the neutral cost of producing this product as the stock seed is heavily subsidized, energy costs to produce the fuels from waste stock feed s and corn in effect create more carbon emissions than its currently producing for a cleaner fuel, switch grass also have the same negative result as to the immanence amount of energy required to get the product to give up it's yield of sugar content.
Shale oils from Canada are also very expensive to produce the crude oils as to the amount of energy it takes to produce a high sulfur crude oil which requires further down stream refining of the product to reduce the sulphate content.
The problem with Particulate filters on vehicles that exceed three and half tons is the cost of replacement, We have three players manufacturing these units , which use precious metals, which add to the cost of the end unit, vehicles over five ton require two particulate filters , these at the moment can cost over five thousand dollars to replace on U.S trucks
The other problem is fuel leakage is caused by the wrong fuels being used or contaminated fuels getting into the system thus reducing the life of the DPF filters, oxygen sensors will also be a problem due to sensing the wrong temperature's, that will shut down the engines or cause engine damage because of faulty fuels this just happen in the UK where damages to vehicles is unknown but hundreds were effected.[Blutec has a command system to order up a higher burn or less when required, this system is not available on the US Sprinters]
Mazda in Japan had to recall all of the particulate filters on the commercial one toners as they were not built to the Japanese's emission standards.
GM Has an issue as has Ford, fine if your under warranty it gets replaced but if your out of warranty, the end repair costs will be big dollars for the average Sprinter owner, but this also includes other makes it's not exclusive to DC.
Costs will be passed on to the consumers if the owners use these vehicles for commercial purposes, it did down under, fuel and operating costs play a major factor in profits a company makes, some small operators can't increase prices where there is too much competition from other players, but the other players have to replace vehicles sooner or latter, and if they do not factor the costs into the viability of the business it will fail.
Any one today is does not matter which country one may live in has to face a reality check,cheap motoring has gone, manufacturing is big business as to the risks the industry historically inherits and that's losses. some one ultimately has to pay the cost, and that is you and me, Mr and Mrs average.
If purchasing a new vehicle your Choice if DC Ford or GM
If it's for low millage secondary use then gas is the way to go to2009, the bar will move to a higher gas rate factor this in
Look at the total yearly costs for five years and the depreciation of the unit, take out an extended warranty if you can get it, at least in Australia we have a standard three year 30000 thousand K warranty full cover and no strings attached, but we pay for it, extended platinum warrantys for five years are available. thinking of what parts and labor costs it's worth it if doing over twenty thousand miles per year
If the vehicle is for business use then Diesel will be the only option in the long term , when you compare fuel usage per mile and weight carrying capacity, apart from thats it's a tax write off 100% if used for work.
Can you save on a Diesel unit?
Well My fuel bill is still the same as it was 10 years a go but because I upped the bar and bit the bullet with Mercedes vans , Diesel is more expensive to buy but I can carry two and half times the weight compared to a Jap 4 cylinder and not have to worry about engine repairs at 75 thousand miles that can easily cost three grand today to fix, the value of the vehicle is higher thus saving on purchase price for a new replacement unit.
mechanical repairs over ten years on four Mercedes vans has cost me only two thousand dollars , not including tires or battery's
OK I admit I have had a good run , and I am in a position to change my rates at the drop of a hat, ,, however the business is over fifty years old and ran by the same family business, so reputation commands work just drops into our laps as the preferred contractors to commit works.
My advise , from an older guy with an awful lot of commercial experience in life, think very carefully which is the best option for you over a five year time frame, there will be changes, Gas has advantages but it's limited, Diesel is the stepping stone into tomorrows hybrids for alternative use of fuels, viable electric power is still four to five years away for producing vehicles at an affordable purchase rate.
Richards thought for the day:thinking:
Including spelling mistooks :smilewink:

How can vehicle operators comply with the proposed Low Emission Zone.pdf (application/pdf Object) (http://www.est.org.uk/uploads/documents/fleet/How%20can%20vehicle%20operators%20comply%20with%20 the%20proposed%20Low%20Emission%20Zone.pdf)

2005_deer_nickolas.pdf (application/pdf Object) (http://www1.eere.energy.gov/vehiclesandfuels/pdfs/deer_2005/poster2/2005_deer_nickolas.pdf)


2004_deer_seguelong2.pdf (application/pdf Object) (http://www1.eere.energy.gov/vehiclesandfuels/pdfs/deer_2004/session12/2004_deer_seguelong2.pdf)

Diesel_Flyer.pdf (application/pdf Object) (http://www.gmfleet.com/pdf/Diesel_Flyer.pdf)
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gerrym51
03-28-2007, 04:08 PM
altered sprinter,

as a consumer i am interested in getting the best bang for the
buck. i have read that the european union taxes diesel at a lower rate
than gas. therefore diesel is definitly a better deal than then in the US.

a cleaner environment is a laudable goal but it is not cheap.
i plan on buying a sprinter and having sportsmobile convert it.

my rationale for gas is this. if there is not a greater savings overall
for a diesel engine in van(not big great weight bearing trucks)
why get into the hassle of cold weather starts, more expensive
fuel in US, more expensive maintenance(although in some cases longer lasting). in the US market for what i plan to do with the sprinter
gas looks like a better choice

gerry

SprntrStkd
03-28-2007, 10:56 PM
I would agree with A.S. (and several American car magazines), that diesel is the temporary fix for now and maybe the path to future fuels...freeing us up some from carbon dependency here in the states. And it just so happens the best diesel engines come from Benz, and these new '07 engines are supposed to be the most gas like yet! (no smell, no clouds and it purrs...a little)

Here in CA, the big Ford diesel trucks are selling like hotcakes...and they suck! My father in law bought an 05 and already had the entire turbo unit replaced! Point is, it's growing in the American car manuf.'s minds and will be found in euro car/sedan models here in the states soon. It's just too bad that American Diesel tech is so far behind the Euro's, maybe that's why our Gov. is so reluctant to invest in it and price gouging us with it?!?!

Times are changing and i cannot support this whole gas/oil craziness any longer!

For now; go diesel, go European manufacturing, buy it in the US and see the gas station a whole lot less!!

~SprntrStkd

Altered Sprinter
03-28-2007, 11:01 PM
Hi geery
Thats is your option, I'm thinking long term five years, Nixon nearly put a fuel tax on gas when in office Bush is thinking and talking about it, but he wont act on it yet, the point is sooner or latter someone will,as to the pressure of US Fuel requirements keep on going up, there has to be a day of reckoning somewhere down the line.
I would be the first to admit the current Sprinter 07 is not the best option in the US as to some of you brief thoughts, which are quite valid.
The only Sprinter that will be almost bullet proof will be the Blutec version, these vehicles in the way they are set up are truly awesome.
Any way if you get one,then I'm sure you will enjoy it Gas or Diesel.
Richard

rogerbeeghly
03-29-2007, 01:13 AM
Well it all depends on how many miles you will be putting on it and how long you plan on keeping it!!! Will say you get 22 MPG with the diesel. I would guess maby 15 MPG in the gas, also does it take premium gas? Then do the math, generally if you put on over 100,000 miles the diesel is the cheeper in the long run. But if you trade every couple of years and only put on 30,000-50,000 miles go with the gas. Its not hard to calculate out!!!

michigandon
03-29-2007, 08:29 AM
$800 to replace a particulate filter? :wtf:

Gimme a piece of 2.5" exahuast pipe, some collars and clamps, and a Sawzall and I'll remedy that problem for good for a LOT less money. :smilewink:

Altered Sprinter
03-29-2007, 09:20 AM
Well it all depends on how many miles you will be putting on it and how long you plan on keeping it!!! Will say you get 22 MPG with the diesel. I would guess maby 15 MPG in the gas, also does it take premium gas? Then do the math, generally if you put on over 100,000 miles the diesel is the cheeper in the long run. But if you trade every couple of years and only put on 30,000-50,000 miles go with the gas. Its not hard to calculate out!!!

You got that spot on, My thoughts are there will be a fuel tax within three years on gas as to it's inefficiency's that may mean some folk are really going to get burnt.

$800 to replace a particulate filter? :wtf:

Gimme a piece of 2.5" exahuast pipe, some collars and clamps, and a Sawzall and I'll remedy that problem for good for a LOT less money. :smilewink:
Ha, Ha! I thought of that too, just for a brief moment except it would shut the whole system down as the oxygen sensors are on it, so back to the drawing board.:smilewink:
Richard

michigandon
03-29-2007, 02:52 PM
Ha, Ha! I thought of that too, just for a brief moment except it would shut the whole system down as the oxygen sensors are on it, so back to the drawing board.:smilewink:
Richard

Leave the sensors in place, knock the "guts" outta the inside, put it back on and Bobs your uncle! :smilewink:

AHAMAYfrank
03-29-2007, 06:02 PM
I currently have a 2004 FL 2500HC 144. There is a hill, on the main hard road, (as they say here in Georgia), that the sprinter pulls in 5th with the cruise set at 65mph. :bow: I had it in for service last fall and the dealership gave me a new Dodge pickup to use until my van was done. I donít know what engine transmission package it had but it would spin the tires from stopped pretty easily so it had plenty of HP. On the same hill with the cruise set at 65mph the dang thing downshifted twice. :thinking: I put a bunch of gas in it the two days I had it also. I think a big advantage for me is the torque of a diesel. The 2007 is ordered and I canít wait!! :drool:

Frank

topless
03-29-2007, 09:50 PM
I don't have a Sprinter just because it's a diesel. I have one because it's a turbo diesel. I've driven vans and trucks my whole life and I'm telling ya, you do not want to pay the fuel bill on a big heavy vehicle that's not a turbo. I call it, power on demand. You take a gas truck and a turbo diesel truck with the same size and weight and head up a 4 mile long 6% grade, and the gasser will be 1-1/2 miles from the top when the TD is headed down the other side.
Thats not considering the diesel lasting 2-3 times as long. One more thing, yes a diesel costs more up front, it also returns more on the end. Almost dollar for dollar.

I don't know where I heard this:smilewink: , but they sell things called O2 simulators that people use to fool ECU's when they take the o2's out of the exhaust.

Scott_Mc
04-13-2007, 12:27 AM
altered sprinter,

as a consumer i am interested in getting the best bang for the
buck. i have read that the european union taxes diesel at a lower rate
than gas. therefore diesel is definitly a better deal than then in the US.

Best bang for the buck, we're all with you there!

In Germany anyhow it is more expensive to own a Diesel vehicle than a gasser. A little grey here on the details but there is some sort of additional tax (sort of a property tax) on them. Better deal? Not so sure. If so it's due to the better fuel economy. There's not much of anything that's a deal there price wise.



my rationale for gas is this. if there is not a greater savings overall
for a diesel engine in van(not big great weight bearing trucks)
why get into the hassle of cold weather starts, more expensive
fuel in US, more expensive maintenance(although in some cases longer lasting). in the US market for what i plan to do with the sprinter
gas looks like a better choice

gerry

Cold weather starts are really a non issue for much of the US. The rest have block heaters. Where are you from Gerry? Toss some info in your profile...take your coat off, stay a while:smilewink:

More expensive fuel? The prices are a non-stop roller coaster. Around here (although not for a while) sometimes less than regular unleaded. Sometimes more than premium.

More expensive maintenance when compared to? A Ford or Chevy, maybe. A gas Mercedes? Mercedes maintenance is going to cost you regardless of engine type. You won't be walking out of the service dept saying "Boy, that was cheap!" either way:smirk:

$800 to replace a particulate filter?

Gimme a piece of 2.5" exahuast pipe, some collars and clamps, and a Sawzall and I'll remedy that problem for good for a LOT less money.
:shhh: :laughing:

....On the same hill with the cruise set at 65mph the dang thing downshifted twice. I put a bunch of gas in it the two days I had it also. I think a big advantage for me is the torque of a diesel. The 2007 is ordered and I can’t wait!!

Frank
Diesel's kick-a$$ on the hills. You have to get those gas engines spinning so fast (more waste) to get into the feeble "power band". Then when you get there it's like...is that all you've got? :cry:

You take a gas truck and a turbo diesel truck with the same size and weight and head up a 4 mile long 6% grade, and the gasser will be 1-1/2 miles from the top when the TD is headed down the other side.
Thats not considering the diesel lasting 2-3 times as long. One more thing, yes a diesel costs more up front, it also returns more on the end. Almost dollar for dollar.

Word-up!

Gerry, need we add resale value?

gerrym51
04-13-2007, 02:01 AM
mr. sprinter dealer,

i'd like to trade in my 2007 sprinter van for the new 2011
sprinter van. I think it's worth x dollars. my van has only 110,000 miles.

well son,

as much as i'd like to give you the benefit of the extra trade in valuee of
a diesel engine we will have to replace the DPF at about this time
because it is full of ash. we just can't resell this to another buyer.
the DPF is 1600.00 dollars. we will offer x-$1600.00 dollars

sikwan
04-13-2007, 03:54 AM
mr. sprinter dealer,

i'd like to trade in my 2007 sprinter van for the new 2011
sprinter van. I think it's worth x dollars. my van has only 110,000 miles.

well son,

as much as i'd like to give you the benefit of the extra trade in valuee of
a diesel engine we will have to replace the DPF at about this time
because it is full of ash. we just can't resell this to another buyer.
the DPF is 1600.00 dollars. we will offer x-$1600.00 dollars

Who goes to a dealer to sell their vehicle?

If you want to save the hassle of using craigslist to sell you vehicle, you know you're going to lose money on a trade in to a dealership. Dealerships need to make money and they don't exist by buying used vehicles at market value.

You'll be losing more than $1600 if you go to a dealership and probably even more with a petrol engine.

:2cents:
Seek

gerrym51
04-13-2007, 11:58 PM
Who goes to a dealer to sell their vehicle?

If you want to save the hassle of using craigslist to sell you vehicle, you know you're going to lose money on a trade in to a dealership. Dealerships need to make money and they don't exist by buying used vehicles at market value.

You'll be losing more than $1600 if you go to a dealership and probably even more with a petrol engine.

:2cents:
Seek

sikwan,
my point is you sell it personally the cost of replacing DPF is still an
issue. it fills up it has to be replaced. van goes into limp mode
unless the buyer knows diddley squat about it he going to ask for 1600
off of deal for DPF replacement

gerry

gerrym51
04-14-2007, 12:30 AM
Best bang for the buck, we're all with you there!

In Germany anyhow it is more expensive to own a Diesel vehicle than a gasser. A little grey here on the details but there is some sort of additional tax (sort of a property tax) on them. Better deal? Not so sure. If so it's due to the better fuel economy. There's not much of anything that's a deal there price wise.





Cold weather starts are really a non issue for much of the US. The rest have block heaters. Where are you from Gerry? Toss some info in your profile...take your coat off, stay a while:smilewink:

More expensive fuel? The prices are a non-stop roller coaster. Around here (although not for a while) sometimes less than regular unleaded. Sometimes more than premium.

More expensive maintenance when compared to? A Ford or Chevy, maybe. A gas Mercedes? Mercedes maintenance is going to cost you regardless of engine type. You won't be walking out of the service dept saying "Boy, that was cheap!" either way:smirk:


:shhh: :laughing:


Diesel's kick-a$$ on the hills. You have to get those gas engines spinning so fast (more waste) to get into the feeble "power band". Then when you get there it's like...is that all you've got? :cry:


Word-up!

Gerry, need we add resale value?


scott,

hard to believe we both live in massachusetts.

the strange thing is i thought you were agreeing with me until i got to resale value.

resale value how. is it at 100,000 miles
or is it at 400,000 for a diesel

if you pay more up front to buy a diesel it should be worth more later on.
if you buy another diesel the extra is never recovered- just rolled over.

a diesel does save money over gas if you drive at least 300,000 miles

my thoughts are that the savings is not as great as diesel enthusiasts
think it is.

if the difference is not that great why buy a diesel at all and save diesel headaches.

I know- because real men drive diesels



gerry

Therberg
04-14-2007, 02:54 AM
scott,



I know- because real men drive diesels



gerry




:rad: EXACTLY:rad:


Tim H

kkanuck
04-14-2007, 04:04 AM
I saw a 2002 158" with close to 600K miles sell for 17K last year!

Show me any gas model made by any manufacturer, that would offer such value over the life of the vehicle?


Tibor

gerrym51
04-14-2007, 04:07 AM
I saw a 2002 158" with close to 600K miles sell for 17K last year!

Show me any gas model made by any manufacturer, that would offer such value over the life of the vehickle?


Tibor

that sounds impressive

gerry

Scott_Mc
04-14-2007, 03:34 PM
Who goes to a dealer to sell their vehicle?
Thank you. They already spanked me when I bought it, they are going to spank me again when I buy another. Need I take it three times? A trade in is win win win for the dealer.

scott,

hard to believe we both live in massachusetts.Howdy neighbor!

the strange thing is i thought you were agreeing with me until i got to resale value.After best bang for the buck...not at all.

resale value how. is it at 100,000 miles
or is it at 400,000 for a dieselMy recall is not serving me on the members' name but someone here recently picked up a used Sprinter with exactly 100K and paid 24K. Assuming proper oil changes, 100K is not high really. We picked up our last TDI Passat Wagon with 160K, runs like a car with 1/2 the mileage:smilewink:. 400K, well? This would depend on many things.

if you pay more up front to buy a diesel it should be worth more later on.
if you buy another diesel the extra is never recovered- just rolled over.
And it is. Extra recovered? It's a motor vehicle. We are merely talking about losing less of what you've put in.

a diesel does save money over gas if you drive at least 300,000 miles Not so sure it's quite that high. And if you're driving a gasser, you may very well be replacing the entire vehicle before 300K.

my thoughts are that the savings is not as great as diesel enthusiasts think it is. Yes, there are additional expenses to owning a Diesel, and the savings are probably not as great as I'd like to think. But they are there. I do know, however that fuel prices are getting higher and higher and that fuel is a frequent expense when compared to any other vehicle expense. I feel the savings regularly. I know after the pain of the fill I'll have time to heal because I won't be back too soon.

if the difference is not that great why buy a diesel at all and save diesel headaches.Headaches? Seems your biggest worry is the DPF? Like everything else, there will be a more cost effective way of dealing with this. Will it be cheap, likely not but probably less than original estimates.

I know- because real men drive diesels Chest beating aside, I just think they are a better choice, better "investment", not that a vehicle can be considered one.

You'll still have a better resale with your gas Sprinter than the competition. No worries. It's still a Benz!

Gerry, Diesels aren't for everybody. I got hooked a few years ago and I'm here to stay. The advances in Diesel technology (which continue to improve) has all but eliminated much of the bad Diesel stigma, but many (not referring to you) are so set int their ways that they can't see the forest through the trees. The US market (IMO) was so overdue for a vehicle like this it's not even funny. When it showed up here with a sensibly sized Diesel engine, I could not get to the dealer fast enough. If you want to save some money, I'll sell you mine(seeing as you are local) and I'll go and order up another. Ok, maybe I'm getting carried away.




:rad: EXACTLY:rad:
Tim HNo really Tim, tell us how you really feel:smirk:

gerrym51
04-14-2007, 04:06 PM
Thank you. They already spanked me when I bought it, they are going to spank me again when I buy another. Need I take it three times? A trade in is win win win for the dealer.

Howdy neighbor!

After best bang for the buck...not at all.

My recall is not serving me on the members' name but someone here recently picked up a used Sprinter with exactly 100K and paid 24K. Assuming proper oil changes, 100K is not high really. We picked up our last TDI Passat Wagon with 160K, runs like a car with 1/2 the mileage:smilewink:. 400K, well? This would depend on many things.


And it is. Extra recovered? It's a motor vehicle. We are merely talking about losing less of what you've put in.

Not so sure it's quite that high. And if you're driving a gasser, you may very well be replacing the entire vehicle before 300K.

Yes, there are additional expenses to owning a Diesel, and the savings are probably not as great as I'd like to think. But they are there. I do know, however that fuel prices are getting higher and higher and that fuel is a frequent expense when compared to any other vehicle expense. I feel the savings regularly. I know after the pain of the fill I'll have time to heal because I won't be back too soon.

Headaches? Seems your biggest worry is the DPF? Like everything else, there will be a more cost effective way of dealing with this. Will it be cheap, likely not but probably less than original estimates.

Chest beating aside, I just think they are a better choice, better "investment", not that a vehicle can be considered one.

You'll still have a better resale with your gas Sprinter than the competition. No worries. It's still a Benz!

Gerry, Diesels aren't for everybody. I got hooked a few years ago and I'm here to stay. The advances in Diesel technology (which continue to improve) has all but eliminated much of the bad Diesel stigma, but many (not referring to you) are so set int their ways that they can't see the forest through the trees. The US market (IMO) was so overdue for a vehicle like this it's not even funny. When it showed up here with a sensibly sized Diesel engine, I could not get to the dealer fast enough. If you want to save some money, I'll sell you mine(seeing as you are local) and I'll go and order up another. Ok, maybe I'm getting carried away.



No really Tim, tell us how you really feel:smirk:

scott,

I was thinking it is the diesel enthusiasts who are set in their ways.

this is a quote from the latest motor trend magazine that starts
which how the technology in a Honda CVCC will solve the problem.

i don" t pretend to understand any of it.


" technology will keep diesel emissions compliant, only witchcraft can keep
them affordable" not my quote or thoughts.


ciao, gerry

BaywoodBill
04-14-2007, 07:21 PM
I never had a diesel until I bought this Sprinter. I had always been highly negative about diesels. Now I think when I replace our minivan I may get a diesel.

But that's all right. If Gerry wants a gas version it's fine. Just don't agonize about it so much. Just go ahead and do it and forget all the arguments.