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8jef
11-25-2009, 12:04 AM
Hi y'all,

Just a quick question, because I didn't find the answer anywhere.

I've just visited a local transmission specialist garage for a fluid change. The mechanic used synthetic ATF fluid that had no MB 236.10 or 236.12 approval markings, which was Allison Transynd TES-295 fluid. I argued that the Sprinter would need some MB approved fluid. He said he was using the Transynd on all NAG1 or Mercedes vehicles transmission he had been servicing so far, without any problem reported, which somehow convinced me, but not entirely. :thinking: :idunno: :hmmm:

I wonder if some of you ever faced the same issue, or if anyone actually used the Transynd fluid?

Some input would be appreciated. I just want to be sure I'll not have some bad surprises along the way. :frown:

Jef

Aqua Puttana
11-25-2009, 01:00 AM
8jef,
I bought my Sprinter, and THEN started searching forums. It was THEN that I read all the bad stuff about injector seat leakage aka Black Death (the other Black Death, not the heavy engine oil sludge killing your Saab or other engines), Rumble Strip Noise (RSN), harmonic balancers coming apart, broken glow plugs, etc. It was alarming to say the least. After owning my 2004 for close to 2 years now I worry less about those things. I'm just shy of 200,000 miles.

Anyway, mostly related to RSN in the absence of a solution (my opinion only:2cents:) there was strong opinion that one absolutely needed to use the latest and greatest MB approved fluid for the Sprinter NAG1. I'm not saying that you shouldn't use MB approved products, but with the experiments that Doktor A is conducting for curing RSN it MAY prove to be more a NAG1 program/set-up issue than the effect of using the wrong fluid.

At this time I personally would still prefer to use a transmission fluid that showed the MB 236.12 or the later upgrade 236.14 on the label for my Sprinter. Then again, what do I know. Sorry I don't have specific Allison information for you. AP/vic

8jef
11-25-2009, 01:27 AM
Hi Vic,

Thanks for you :2cents:.. I guess we're all in the same boat. I've got my first Sprinter, a 2002, last Summer and put 50 000 km on it already, without problems. Then the EGR valve is leaking more and more, then the glow plug light went on, then I've purchased a second Sprinter with lots of miles on it (the subject of the trans oil flush described here), then I'm worrying A LOT because I don't want to end up with a broken Sprinter on the side of the 401, at minus 20 celcius, on a dark stretch far from the next exit with 13 customers inside. I've just read about the black death, and believe me, this will be my first duty tomorrow morning.

But then, I just love the Sprinters, so do my customers. I've been driving E-350 XLT's for almost 10 years, dreaming of something more like the Sprinter. Now I'm totally willing and ready to conduct my own experiments. I'll report here any problem I might have using the Transynd oil, which is really a very very good hi-tech fluid - for an Allison transmission. Let's see what happens to my Sprinter.

Jef

8jef
11-25-2009, 02:09 AM
On the tranny side, I've found out that according to MB, Allison Transynd fluid is rated MB 236.91

Here (http://bevo.mercedes-benz.com/bevolistenmain.php?session_id=&navigation_path=bevolisten&language_id=1)

Now, the question is knowing about MB 236.10 or 236.12 VS. MB 236.91. Is the second plain "better" than the first, or are we talking about incompatibility here... My opinion is 236.XX correspond to a family of similar products. :thinking:

Any clue?

Jef

GEARS
11-25-2009, 03:01 AM
That Allison Transyn is good stuff, I never thought about using that in the Sprinter.

bc339
11-25-2009, 07:40 PM
Here's a link to the MB site that lists all fluid specs. I looked up 236.91 on the site and it appears that this is for Allison transmissions, no reference for the NAG1 as there is for 236.14. See if this helps.
Bruce
http://bevo.mercedes-benz.com/bevolistenmain.php?session_id=&navigation_path=bevolisten&language_id=1&PHPSESSID=179ccfc4f6d45a57e4d47a7e3b626d13

Aqua Puttana
11-27-2009, 01:42 PM
So there's not much going on this morning after turkey day.

I did a bit of searching to back into some information. Going by the viscosity it looks like the 236.14 and 236.91 are a bit different animals. That said, I am not an oil guy so the differences may not be significant. In fact I didn't even stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night. Maybe someone else can interpret if it is significant.

Ryder has the Shell 134 MB236.14 at a good price.

Here's some of the cut and pasted stuff I found.

236.14

Mobil ATF 134
http://www.mobil.com/Italy-English/Lubes/PDS/glxxenpvlmomobil_atf_134.pdf

Typical Properties
Mobil ATF 134
Colour, DIN ISO 2549 red
Viscosity, DIN 51 562-1
cSt @ 40C 29,6
cSt @ 100C 6,5
Viscosity at -40 C, DIN 51398 mPa s 8500
Pour Point, C, DIN ISO 3016 -51
Flash Point, C, DIN ISO 2592 200
Viscosity Index, DIN ISO 2909 185


Shell ATF 134

The specs didn't pop out at me, but I did find this. Looks like a good price.

$4.26/qt.
http://www.ryderfleetproducts.com/cgi-bin/ryderfp/products/srm/oid/168044/pn/Auto-Transmission-Fluid-Shell-134-for-Sprinter/erm/product_detail.jsp




236.91

Castrol TranSynd
http://www.castrol.com/liveassets/bp_internet/castrol/castrol_usa/STAGING/local_assets/downloads/t/TranSyndPDS.pdf
http://www.castrol.com/liveassets/bp_internet/castrol/castrol_usa/STAGING/local_assets/downloads/t/TranSyndRD.pdf

Viscosity, ASTM D-445, cSt
@40C (104F) 38.9
@100C (212F) 7.3
Brookfield Viscosity, ASTM D-2983, cP@-40C (-40F) 8,400
Viscosity Index, ASTM D-2270 168
Specific Gravity, ASTM D-287, @ 16C (60F) 0.85
Flash Point, ASTM D-92, C/F 235/455
Fire Point, ASTM D-92, C/F 274/525
Pour Point, ASTM D-97, C/F -55/-67
Total Acid Number, ASTM D-664, mg KOH/gm 1
4-Ball Wear, ASTM D-2266,
40kg, 1200 rpm, 1hr and 75C (167F), scar dia. Mm
0.44
NOACK Evaporative Loss, DIN 51581
1 hr, 150C (302F), wt%
0.62
Cold Cranking Simulator Viscosity, ASTM D-5293, cP @ -30C (-22F) 2,900
Revised:


Mobil Delvac Synthetic ATF
http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lubes/PDS/GLXXENCVLMOMobil_Delvac_Synthetic_ATF.asp

Typical Properties

Mobil Delvac Synthetic ATF
Viscosity, ASTM D 445
cSt @ 40 C 39
cSt @ 100 C 7.3
Brookfield Viscosity, ASTM D 5293
-cP @ -40 C 8400
Viscosity Index, ASTM D 2270 168
Pour Point, C, ASTM D 97 -54
Flash Point, C, ASTM D 92 236
Density @15 C kg/l, ASTM D 4052 0.85
Color Red

mackconsult
11-30-2009, 07:01 PM
I want to do a transmission service this weekend. So what should I use given all this information?

Doktor A -> do you have a recommendation seeing that is going to be part of the noise rumble issue?

Aqua Puttana
12-01-2009, 01:36 AM
Mackconsult,
First let me say up front that I'm not trying in any way to speak for Doktor A, but if you're going to make the W/E schedule you'll need to place an order.

Being that the Shell ATF 134 is rated MB236.14 and shipping for Ryder should be about 8 bucks, that is what I'd use just based upon the $4.26 price. I think the stuff from Dodge is around $14.00(maybe more?) a bottle.

If you do a search do not be fooled (as I almost was) by any lists specifying the Shell 3403 ATF for Sprinters. The Shell 3403 is rated MB236.10 which is an older version. FWIW. AP/vic

Roger Sample
01-12-2010, 11:53 PM
I just changed my tranny fluid again and tried an old trick I used to do. I cant afford to pay 19.50 a quart on tranny fluid because I put way to many miles on my van. I changed the filter and used 10w hydraulic fluid. It works great and its only 15.00 bucks for 2 gallons.

Hoppingmad
01-13-2010, 09:57 PM
ROGER
If you can't afford the $20 a quart stuff at least use some reputable tranny fluid.
Long time ago the oil supplier visited my place of slavery and I asked about hyd oil, especialy for the machines whose tags had gotten lost. "just use tranny fluid, its good ****, and you can put it in anything using hyd fluid. Don't worry about light , med, heavy."

only 15.00 bucks for 2 gallons
I wouldn't try that in my old rusty ford, but at least I can get a ford tranny cheap at the junk yard.
From reading these threads a major spinter part is about the same price as a sprinter moving under its own power.

DRAIN THAT OUT

mackconsult
01-14-2010, 03:37 AM
Gees ....

http://www.sprinter-source.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9024