Idle info on 2007 diesel

this is my first time posting a message and possibly doing all wrong so please bear with me. I have a 2007 Sprinter diesel used in expediting. Not being able to afford other options, am attempting to just let engine idle to either stay warm or cold, depending on season. All reports state iding will do damage to engine and filters but an option available on purchase is high idle. If a person just uses a throttle stick, what rpm is needed to keep from doing damage to vehicle. I called 2 dealers today and neither knows. thanks for all help.

I idle a lot more than recommended. It's not a problem, though many, many, many people disagree.

The most important thing to do is not borrow trouble from the future; just do what you do until there's a problem that you can actually fix.

Having said that:

The main worry amongst Sprinter owners is soot build up from low temp combustion. I think that's hog wash.

The main worry amongst general, mainstream, American diesel enthusiasts is that the oil doesn't get everywhere it needs to and it rubs cylinder walls and rings raw. I think that's hog wash too.

Here's the guidance from Sprinter-Source owners:

1200 rpm is "high-idle," use a decent, engine oil spec'd at MB229.51 and use fresh fuel from a high-turnover diesel provider like a truck stop or a commercial fuel supplier. You can use an additive if you want... to promote better combustion, boost your cetane using Redline Oil RL2 or something else marketed as a cetane booster.

Finally, don't skimp on regular maintenance.... change your fluids and your filters at the recommended interval and don't let anything get in your way.

-Jon

I myself idle a bit more than usual mainly in winter months...when its -30c or colder there is a certain routine i have to follow or life is pretty miserable... I don't idle all night or anything. I do run my booster heater to help engine coolant have a fighting chance to preform its job to the fullest. It's more important to get the engine up to operating temp quicker by getting the van moving and letting the engine work up so heat, rather than a low idle to do the same. Once I'm up to a good operating temp i don't worry to much after that. If i had to idle all night i would be looking at other options on the market to maintain cabin heat.

Depending on circumstance of needs for idling
Standard 800-900 rpm not recommended nor will it maintain a heaters ambient temperature.sufficient enough to maintain a comfortable radiant heat with-in the vehicle specifiably if below -0 F
1200 rpm high idle is sufficient to maintain a operating condition of a diesel engine to keep both engine lubricated and batteries fully charged.
The only real concern is winter operation for extended overnight stays as it seems to be illegal in sectional areas of the U.S

Alternative heating operations are available but there is a cost factor if requiring more than just heating;eg:Lights hot water TV etc. However each to our own
N/American..View attachment Idling.pdf

You most certainly do not want to 'idle' your vehicle on startup to warm-up (as stated in our owners manual).

I'm not ashamed to say (it was all from being nieve) that my EGR fouling was from excessive idling primarily but coupled with low cetane (bad) fuels which did not allow for proper combustion. Secondly, my driving habits were/are such that i unfortunately do short distant drives mostly which never allows the motor to heat up fully before shutdown, a few times a day ( I recently changed that habit to now make sure I reach full temperature before I shutdown by driving for a few more miles as needed). If you must idle, use a premium diesel additive for sure, to ensure complete combustion plus proper lubrication. I use TDR-WDA fro Almagamated Inc: http://www.amalgamatedinc.com/tdr-wda.aspx. The motor warms up much quicker now, acceleration is very smooth, starting and shutting off have improved, and the motor purrs when it idles and roars like lion when I step on it..

From my home to my office is 7 miles. After reading this thread a few days ago, I decided to lock the transmission into 3rd gear for the morning commute.

The route takes me through 30 mph and 40 mph roads.

I'm at operating temperature when I park.

If you're really worried about never reaching operating temperature, suck up the fuel economy and drive at a higher RPM range for slower speeds.

-Jon

Most wear on Any Engine occurs within the first 10 minutes of a cold crank start due to lack of temperature being obtained to reach maximum operating efficiency,for total lubrication.
Cold out-side ambient temperatures will delay the engine from reaching a standard 80c rating.

This year was the first winter past records broken, which was severe not in Snow as such,but with outside wind chill factors. On two consecutive days in a row the wind chill factors were -15c ,the engine never reached 40c no heat from the heater just luke warm through the mountain runs, even at sea level 50c was only reached.
Red-line 85+ double dose was added to fuel so the engine had an instant start and ran smooth therefore not an issue no white-water-vapor-trail, from exhaust either.
Now if parked in a snow drift on idle that's where an issue can be a problem,especially if the out side vents are blocked with snow.
Winters coming: "Prepare".
Richard

Altered Sprinter said:

Most wear on Any Engine occurs within the first 10 minutes of a cold crank start due to lack of temperature being obtained to reach maximum operating efficiency,for total lubrication.

Click to expand...

It sounds like you're advocating an oil pan heater and an oil-precharge system like this:
View attachment Ams-oiler-amk_11_04.pdf

-Jon

Hi Orion I will never idle my beast...Again
I started in 2006 with the T1n and soon I started to have problem, one day the van didn't go more than 40 mph.
The van was towed to Lynnwood Dodge and the diagnosis was EGR failure.
At that time I didn't know about this forum so I called my Uncle who is a Truck driver and he explained to me that maybe the cause was related to bad diesel, clogging the EGR.
Since that day I never idled the van until I moved to the beast NCV3.
While in the NCV3 I tried to idle again thinking that the NCV3 would have a better engine, which in my opinion I do believe is true; but I encountered the same problem around 7000 miles and had to replace the EGR valve. Since the problem occurred I have never idled again and now that I have 50k miles problem free I know that I made the right decision.
I do start the vehicle and drive right away,but the first mile I'm around 1200 rpm and the next 4 miles at 1800 rpm until I reach normal temperature.
Even though I agree with John in so many ways and posts, this time I disagree, but Hump 1 you have to follow your own feeling and check the environment temperature.
Where I live the surrounding area allowed me to go slow for the first 5 miles with speed limit at 40 mph and that help me a lot, different scenario if you hit the freeway right away, that really would be more harmful than good.

Mauro

I did say that many, many, many people disagree. I'm ok with it. Clearly everyone has a different experience.

In all ways, one must do what one feels is best. I would hate to read that someone did something I did and wrecked their ride.

I'm just one voice amongst many. What I do may not work for everyone, or even anyone else. It's just me, a single datapoint in the wild.

-Jon

jdcaples said:

It sounds like you're advocating an oil pan heater and an oil-precharge system like this:
View attachment 17788

-Jon

Click to expand...

Hi Jon: No i was not advocating anything just making a point that wear is at a cold crank start until engine reaches the desired operating temperature.
The reference to Winter is that you have already have had the first cold snow snap drop in and if the records continue to be broken then the issue of dead sprinters will be knocking on your door sooner than latter.
Idling at night for whatever reason means an alternative portable energy supply.
As for a cold start below -20 then you have to look at real-time-operating costs.
Add-on's like Amsoil no offense are just a joke with zero creditability when in snow or ice bound operating conditions as to the toys such as battery blankets.
below -20 Oil 0w-40 Engines are kept on a steam process via the radiator for full time reticulation which keeps the block warm and the oil at a higher viscosity level for a two cycle ignition start for fuel on demand. fuel additives hell even the military use them.
Battery's we use Arctic deep cycle start battery's No Voltage drops of any real-time significance, as they are temperature rated for -40c+ Agreed we are talking real money not play money.
But pre-winter preparation is what it's all about when operating in sub arctic conditions.
Richard

Hump1 said:

this is my first time posting a message and possibly doing all wrong so please bear with me. I have a 2007 Sprinter diesel used in expediting. Not being able to afford other options, am attempting to just let engine idle to either stay warm or cold, depending on season. All reports state idling will do damage to engine and filters but an option available on purchase is high idle. If a person just uses a throttle stick, what rpm is needed to keep from doing damage to vehicle. I called 2 dealers today and neither knows. thanks for all help.

Click to expand...

I am using my 2007 Sprinter for expediting I tried idling at 2000 RPM with a ideal stick in INDY and woke up with a check engine light that the particulate filter was clogging and had to be re-gen at the dealer was told tat it was so cold it could not re gen

Go see Ray at Espar of Mich the unit will roast you out insulate well and the side door is is bad for air leaks at bottom I use a blanket in the step well

Altered Sprinter said:

This year was the first winter past records broken, which was severe not in Snow as such,but with outside wind chill factors. On two consecutive days in a row the wind chill factors were -15c ,the engine never reached 40c no heat from the heater just luke warm through the mountain runs, even at sea level 50c was only reached.
Richard

Click to expand...

Richard

Don't know anything about T1Ns, but my NCV3 will reach normal operating (80 to 85 c) under the conditions you describe. Are you sure you don't have a problem, thermostat maybe?

gary

No Gary I know my sprinter backwards, it was the [A] Elevation: Mountain areas with extreme windchill factors that kept the engine from reaching 80c but was also in lower gears and low rpm due to road conditions black ice.1st 2nd gears at less than 60 kilometers an hour The average once warmed up hit 40c at 5000 ft elevations and stayed there all the time until it came back to sea level and then only 50C This was the coldest winter ever recorded.
I did not expect it but should have known better,as to a simple remedy, a canvas cover over the radiator grille,and a block of filter on the right side intake vent.
The van never missed a beat.
Richard

Studies in the '50s and '60s by Ford, McDonnell-Douglas, and the SAE showed that 90-95% of all mechanical engine wear occurs in the first 10 seconds of a cold engine start-up. That initial cold-start wear can equal hundreds of miles of warm-engine wear. That's why oil companies started using additives such as ZDDP... it leaves a coating of zinc on metal surfaces after the oil drains away, providing better bearing protection on the next cold start (BTW, ZDDP creates problems for catalytic converters, so they've started using other additives, such as TechroBond - a Teflon variant).
This would seem to indicate that, assuming you're using an oil that's thin enough to flow at the coldest temperature you see, a pre-oiling system could benefit your engine's long-term health even more than a pre-heater.

I have been a reader/member of this forum for a while now, and have many times seen wind chill factor used to describe the cold effects on vehicles. That never seemed right. I had always learned that wind chill is the apparent temperature felt on exposed skin due to wind, and as such was only relevant to skin feeling the cold, not the parts of an engine. Minus 40 to an engine is still -40, no matter how much wind is blowing on it. (It's still to fr***in cold for these old bones)
Just trying to keep everyone honest, here. ;-)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wind_chill

Jef

Stand in the arctic and your temp is -40 drive Brrrr!
Then start running and you'll see how cold it gets on your face. same applies to driving, an ambiance temp versus increased wind chill factoring as you increase speed from 0 to 60 kilometer the air intake acts an an artificial inboard air conditioner thus reducing heat.
Pontiac did this with ram air induction.
Old but gold: Mountain racing the colder the air being forced into a carburetor the faster the 396 block tri-carburetors performed with both HP and did they go as oppressed to a hot desert run where heat reduced the maxium permnace of those engines.
Cold air contains ice particularization and i reduction of temperature is imminent on a diesel engine same as a hot day with temps over 40c gauge goes to the max if overloaded especilly when your forcing air-conditioners to work that are not tropical rated which the Mercedes air con is not.
But I'm talking cold ice and wind, not a fluffy snow storm.
Richard

Altered Sprinter said:

Stand in the arctic and your temp is -40 drive Brrrr!
Then start running and you'll see how cold it gets on your face. same applies to driving, an ambiance temp versus increased wind chill factoring as you increase speed from 0 to 60 kilometer the air intake acts an an artificial inboard air conditioner thus reducing heat.
Pontiac did this with ram air induction.
Old but gold: Mountain racing the colder the air being forced into a carburetor the faster the 396 block tri-carburetors performed with both HP and did they go as oppressed to a hot desert run where heat reduced the maxium permnace of those engines.
Cold air contains ice particularization and i reduction of temperature is imminent on a diesel engine same as a hot day with temps over 40c gauge goes to the max if overloaded especilly when your forcing air-conditioners to work that are not tropical rated which the Mercedes air con is not.
But I'm talking cold ice and wind, not a fluffy snow storm.
Richard

Click to expand...

Richard

Open your mouth and breath in while running and the wind chill temp approaches or reaches ambient temp. Wind chill would have an effect on the radiator, thus coolant temp, but little else.

The reason the mountain racer performed better was not "wind chill" but colder, denser air.

gary

I idle more than most but not near as much as an expeditor would most likely need to. I have the adjustable idle control. When switched on it defaults to 1k rpm. I usually kick it up to about 1200 rpm.

Especially with the recall that helped the cleaning of the EGR, I don't worry about idling. Except for the "motor running while your vehicle is unattending" I would probably do it more.

Regards,

Keith

PS. The only effect wind chill has on inanimate objects, such as car radiators and water pipes, is to shorten the amount of time for the object to cool. The inanimate object will not cool below the actual air temperature. For example, if the temperature outside is -5 degrees Fahrenheit and the wind chill temperature is -31 degrees Fahrenheit, then your car's radiator will not drop lower than -5 degrees Fahrenheit. - I found this on the internet so it must be true

kmessinger said:

PS. The only effect wind chill has on inanimate objects, such as car radiators and water pipes, is to shorten the amount of time for the object to cool. The inanimate object will not cool below the actual air temperature. For example, if the temperature outside is -5 degrees Fahrenheit and the wind chill temperature is -31 degrees Fahrenheit, then your car's radiator will not drop lower than -5 degrees Fahrenheit. - I found this on the internet so it must be true

Click to expand...

Keith

You've tried your idle control with R5-1, R5-2, R5-3 combinations haven't you?

gary