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abittenbinder
02-26-2007, 11:01 PM
The 5 speed automatic transmission for the '07 Sprinters (It's not getting the 7 speed used in MBenz cdi passenger cars) is our old friend the NAG1 transmission. For '07 it carries a slightly different suffix on its type#, which may reflect the different bell housing and possibly a beefed up clutch pack to handle the added torque of the V6 CDI. Doktor Andy

sikwan
02-27-2007, 12:08 AM
Ah interesting Andy!

Does that mean that our ol' friend RSN is included or did they fix that with reprogramming or new internal hardware or fluid? :smilewink:

This is actually good news to me because if they fixed it, we could actually find out if we could do a retrofit to 06 and earlier NAG1's. :thumbup:

Thanks,
Seek

ps. I don't actually have it as often ever since I corrected the fluid level (http://sprinter-source.com/forum/showthread.php?t=626), but I'm still interested!

abittenbinder
02-28-2007, 03:10 AM
Ah interesting Andy!

Does that mean that our ol' friend RSN is included or did they fix that with reprogramming or new internal hardware or fluid? :smilewink:

This is actually good news to me because if they fixed it, we could actually find out if we could do a retrofit to 06 and earlier NAG1's. :thumbup:

Thanks,
Seek


A different engine, different mounts, different body structure, different TCM w/different torque converter clutch lock and partial lock(slippage mode) maps and on goes the list. I would be surprised if RSN was back. Remember-the NAG1 transmission is utilized in several DC product lines and I am not aware of any reports of RSN from those. Doktor Andy

sikwan
02-28-2007, 03:30 AM
Remember-the NAG1 transmission is utilized in several DC product lines and I am not aware of any reports of RSN from those. Doktor Andy

Do a google on "nag1 shudder." It's there from a leaking fill tube TSB (which supposedly is cancelled) to shifting complaints from Jeep owners to Crossfire owners. While the complaints of the problem might not be the same, they sure sound like. :D

I'd like to hope that they fixed it for the 2007 so I can find the idea/solution/fix for the shudder.

I'll wait and see. :bounce:

Thanks,
Seek

talkinghorse43
02-28-2007, 04:46 AM
Interesting info! The info on the web says the TSB was cancelled because they issued a recall and fixed all the tranny's hooked to the 3.7 liter engine. Seems they figured about 99,000 of them (part of total sold) were likely to let water into the tranny through the fill tube seal at the tranny case. The recall included fixing the seal, installing a shield to deflect water and possible torque converter replacement. I wonder if this is really the same tranny we have in the Sprinter? Does the term NAG1 mean it's the same tranny, or are several trannys called NAG1?

talkinghorse43
02-28-2007, 04:58 AM
More info about NAG1. Just looked at the '03 parts catalog and found the model # for the Sprinter NAG1 is W5A380, while the model # for the tranny of the TSB is W5A580. So, it appears the label NAG1 is applied to more than one tranny. Plus, the cancelled TSB calls for ATF+4, which we know won't work for the Sprinter.

abittenbinder
02-28-2007, 05:23 AM
The other DC vehicles with NAG1 automatic transmissions are the '05-'06 Jeep Grand Cherokee, '06 Commander, '05-'06 300/Magnum/Charger. I expect its models of the above equipt with the Hemi engine. Except for bell housing changes, torque converters and possible ratios- this is our transmission. Lets not confuse shudder with RSN. Docktor Andy

abittenbinder
02-28-2007, 03:13 PM
The other DC vehicles with NAG1 automatic transmissions are the '05-'06 Jeep Grand Cherokee, '06 Commander, '05-'06 300/Magnum/Charger. I expect its models of the above equipt with the Hemi engine. Except for bell housing changes, torque converters and possible ratios- this is our transmission. Lets not confuse shudder with RSN. Doktor Andy

'07 models of the above may be included as well. My source was pre-'07 model introduction. Doktor Andy

talkinghorse43
02-28-2007, 03:37 PM
The other DC vehicles with NAG1 automatic transmissions are the '05-'06 Jeep Grand Cherokee, '06 Commander, '05-'06 300/Magnum/Charger. I expect its models of the above equipt with the Hemi engine. Except for bell housing changes, torque converters and possible ratios- this is our transmission. Lets not confuse shudder with RSN. Docktor Andy

I've written many times before that words can mean different things to different people - the info of the attached looks like RSN to me.

http://modsfaceoff.com/2005_chrylser_300_TSB/21-011-05.pdf

talkinghorse43
02-28-2007, 03:39 PM
A different engine, different mounts, different body structure, different TCM w/different torque converter clutch lock and partial lock(slippage mode) maps and on goes the list. I would be surprised if RSN was back. Remember-the NAG1 transmission is utilized in several DC product lines and I am not aware of any reports of RSN from those. Doktor Andy

Here's one:

http://www.crossfireforum.org/forum/showthread.php?t=9882

sikwan
02-28-2007, 04:11 PM
I've written many times before that words can mean different things to different people

Talkinghorse43 is right.

Even though shudder may mean specifically something in technical terms, shudder, vibration, and RSN can mean the same in layman's term.

When I talk to a layman about how a transistor works (whether it be BJTs or MOSFETs), I never use the word "bias" because it's a different meaning altogether.

Seek

sikwan
02-28-2007, 04:18 PM
Here's one:

http://www.crossfireforum.org/forum/showthread.php?t=9882

That's an excellent find. :clapping:

abittenbinder
03-01-2007, 04:10 AM
More info about NAG1. Just looked at the '03 parts catalog and found the model # for the Sprinter NAG1 is W5A380, while the model # for the tranny of the TSB is W5A580. So, it appears the label NAG1 is applied to more than one tranny. Plus, the cancelled TSB calls for ATF+4, which we know won't work for the Sprinter.

The different suffixs on the NAG1 type numbers pertain to detail differences between the same basic NAG1 transmissions. In the case of the Sprinter it is a NAG1 with a Sprinter engine specific bellhousing, clutch discs unique to the Sprinter, drain plugs in the pan and torque converter, etc. The clutch dics in the other DC ( not Sprinter and xfire) NAG1 applications-apparently are designed to survive a diet of ATF+4. Doktor Andy

abittenbinder
03-01-2007, 04:30 AM
Here's one:

http://www.crossfireforum.org/forum/showthread.php?t=9882

An interesting thread which yields two significant pieces of info. The first is a high priced passenger car(but very low production #'s) apparently displaying our RSN symptoms and the second is that P-27 60-43 MBenz passenger car TSB. This TSB addresses TCC rough engagement and/OR DRONING. Thats the first time I've seen MBenz label what appears to be RSN (as droning). Keep in mind this TSB concerns the 722.6 Transmissions- which are NOT NAG1s but are the MBenz passenger 5 speed electronic controlled auto sticks, similar to NAG1. I quizzed my contacts at MBenz and they provided some interesting info-namely that the simple adaptation procedure for the TCC(offered as a solution in this TSB) was a temporary solution and the final fix came with replacement TCMs which probably featured revised maps for the TCC operation. I surmise that his problem, affecting large numbers of high priced passenger vehicles, apparently warrented some engineering time for a fix. The Xfire production numbers and Sprinter numbers (and/or its commercial application) apparently do not. It will be interesting to see if they have addressed the droning issue in the '07 model. Doktor Andy

abittenbinder
03-01-2007, 05:08 AM
One other point of interest-that TSB may offer a clue as to why droning is sometimes difficult(for many Sprinters) to replicate and why it is sometimes inconsistent (regarding symptoms-good days/bad days). That clue comes from the temporary cure the TSB provided- via manual adaptaion. Recall that I once posted (other group) the 4 levels of adaptation our NAG1 is capable of. It is possible that the short and intermediate term adaptation of shift characteristics may involve some adaptation of TCC operation, as well. The short term adaptation resets with ignition key cycle. Doktor Andy

talkinghorse43
03-01-2007, 02:52 PM
Thats the first time I've seen MBenz label what appears to be RSN (as droning).

Not really the first time. I'm sure you remember the "grumbling, DRONING, jerking" tranny problem description in that "schiess" '03 service manual (purchased from DC). There, the recommended fix was to replace the TCC PWM valve, which would require replacing the valve body (@~$1000 per).

sprintertechs9816g
07-15-2010, 01:00 AM
so i have had alot of 2010s brand new, still has RSN