Hard/no start in cold weather! In South America - Please help!!!

samittelstaedt

New member
I have scoured the forum to answeres for this starting issue and have not been able to figure it out yet, any help/ideas is much appreciated!

I have a 2005 Dodge Sprinter with 250,000+ miles. The van has trouble starting below 60 degrees, around 50 degrees it gets especially bad (I have not been able to start it below 35 degrees). The engine turns over and sometimes turns on for a few seconds and then dies. I have to unplug the the sensor at the EGR valve and eventually I am able to get it started. It also seems we have had more difficulty in elevation, especially above 10,000 feet. A few times in serious cold it has helped to unplug what I think is the charge air hose(?). There is a lot of either white or black smoke coming out of the exhaust depending on the day when it first starts - lately it has more often been black. Sometimes it dies when I put it in gear right after starting it and other times there is no power for a few seconds. Once the engine is warm, there have been zero problems in any temperature. Also, it has gone into limp home mode 3 times over the last 4 months, the last time about 2 months ago.

Things I have done. 5 Latin American Sprinter mechanics have looked at it and not pinpointed the issue. The EGR valve has been cleaned and is functioning correctly. There is no Black Death and I have performed a injector leak off test and found no problems. Many sensors and connections have been cleaned. I have changed, cleaned, and inspected air filters and have a new fuel filter arriving in a couple days. High pressure fuel pump was rebuilt, injectors, fuel rail assembly, and turbo resonator have less than 50,000 miles on them. Latin American mechanics (who deal with different Sprinter engines) have suggested replacing different sensors around the turbo, common rail, injectors, and EGR valve.

I do not have a lot of auto mechanic skills or knowledge but would love any ideas of tests or fixes I can try, thanks!

Also, I am currently in Cusco, Peru so mechanics familiar with the engine are non-existent and parts can be hard to get here.
 

vanski

If it’s winter, I’m probably skiing..
bummer deal!

If you could supply the current codes that would give us a better starting point.

Black smoke.. improper air flow (air filter), improper spray pattern (atomization) of injectors, over fueling of injectors, mass air flow sensor not supplying the engine computer good data, same with oxygen sensor.

I was battling a no start issue which was two fold recently; air in the fuel lines (different motor than yours so I wouldn't suspect this), and flaky Cam Position Sensor. The code for cam sensor rarely set so it was difficult to pinpoint that one. Excessive cranking which brings down the voltage of the battery while cranking can cause sensors to start crapping out.

From way out here in CA, I would say you probably have a couple different issues.

Given a rebuilt high pressure pump, i would somewhat suspect that. What's the rail pressure while cranking. Should be minimum 4000 psi.

- edit - actually, I think the manual may call out minimum of 3600 psi, so perhaps just below 4k.

This community really needs codes to help go much further. Current and stored if you can get them.

you're the second person in the last couple of weeks down in SA who appears to be traveling without a good scanner.. talk about throwing caution to the wind!
 
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Midwestdrifter

Engineer In Residence
Do you have a sprinter conversant scanner? Autel AP200, MD802, MD808, etc. This is a fully computerized diesel, and you are running blind without live data and good code reading ability.

The higher the altitude and the colder the air, the harder it will be to start. Low quality diesel only makes this worse. Using a cetane booster is a cheap/easy way to get some margin until you find the issue. With good quality fuel, working glow plugs, and everything in order, you should have no trouble starting down to 0F at 10kft. At 14k Ft you may need to use cetane boosters if it gets really cold.

Do you glow plugs work? Pull the plug connectors off, and check their resistance to the block. Or remove the main connector at the glowplug module, and test from there.

A bad or lazy MAF sensor can cause poor or no starting. If you unplug the MAF, will it start?

A bad ambient air pressure sensor can cause poor starting. What does your ambient and intake pressure sensors read with the key on, but engine off? (we need to know your altitude as well). What is your cold idle at 10kft and above? The ECM adjusts the idle speed when the altitude is high and the engine is cold, this improves warmup, and reduces the stalling risk.

A bad ambient pressure sensor can cause starting issues. What does your dash temperature readout compare to the actual air temperature?

A bad fuel temperature sensor can cause issues, what does the sensor read on a cold engine (engine off, ignition on)? It should be very close to ambient temperature.

A sticking EGR valve can cause hard starting or stalling. Did the valve spring back closed easily and repeatedly when you had it removed for cleaning?
 

samittelstaedt

New member
Ok, if I'm reading it correctly, these are the codes:
  • 25,20,20,37
  • 25,23,56,4d
  • 25,20,45,3d
  • 25,28,17,3d
These were the most recent I have but I am going to try and get it scanned and get past codes as well.

Can someone link me to a thread that explains how I can read the rail pressure while cranking?

I actually do have the correct scanner, I just can't get it to work! But thankfully in a lot of cities down here someone has a Mercedes scanner. My bigger problem is lack of knowledge to understand the codes and how to investigate (kind of the same issue that the mechanics down here have because they don't have these exact engines).

Thanks Dennis, unfortunately I was already south of Lima and heading the other direction!

Midwestdrifter or others, can you help me with links for how to test the Glow Plugs?

The dash temperature seems a little erratic at times but that seems more common while the vehicle is running, when the engine is off it seems fairly accurate.
The first time we could not get it started was at only a little over 8000 ft and high 40s/low50sF. We also had issues at 10,000+ft in low 30sF, and it took a few hrs and the sun coming out at close to 14,000ft and temps in the 30sF. Otherwise, hard starts have seemed to be exasperated with a combination the car being off for an extended period of time, cold temps, and elevation.
The egr valve is clean and functioning properly.
 

Nautamaran

2004 140” HRC 2500 (Crewed)
The MB engine codes are four digits (so you may be seeing 2529, 2037?). An MB-aware scanner will also provide the “subcode” (eg 2057-2) which gets you closer to the problem area.

Rail pressure is SAE Mode 1 PId 0A, which any k-line (kwp/iso 14230) scanner should be able to display.

-dave
 

samittelstaedt

New member
Hmm, that was from a Mercedes scanner and that was exactly how they appeared? I guess I'm reading it wrong or this is not the correct scanner.

*and I drove the Sprinter here from Michigan, it just the 2.7L 2687CC.
 

autostaretx

Erratic Member
Although glow plug (and module) problems can be part of it, the crankshaft position sensor and the camshaft position sensors both need to be working for the engine to start. Once it's running, the camshaft sensor isn't a killer ... but the crankshaft sensor is.

There have been other threads where cold weather seemed to (finally) reveal bordering-on-iffy sensors.

--dick
 

Patrick of M

2005 T1N 2500 (NA spec)
What scanner do you have? By which I mean the one "you can't get to work".
Also many here would suggest that on long trips, carrying a spare cam and crank position sensor is pretty important.
 
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B

billintomahawk

Guest
Go to this bar on the Plaza, Norton's rat and do some asking about which mechanic.

They are bikers. and gear heads.
Try to get to the owner.

https://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowUse...6-Norton_Rat_s_Tavern-Cusco_Cusco_Region.html

https://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowUse...s;geo=294314&detail=2154033&aggregationId=101

Worth a shot.

If that doesn't work go to the police garage and do some asking.

Have some small money.
Maybe?

Por la ninas and ninos.

Isn't the church right there? Better light a candle and then have a conejillo de Indias for lunch(roasted on the street).

bill in tomahawk
 
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samittelstaedt

New member
Ok, here are the most recent codes:
I2527 - 004
2043 - 002
2043 - 001
2356 - 008

I'm assuming the 2043 is from disconnecting the EGR to start. I have found that disconnecting the charge air hose is what actually helps start the engine and am not touching the EGR anymore.

The most recent mechanic (from the best I can translate his Spanish) thinks that the problem is with low compression in the cylinders. He said one was as low as 140? The ones with higher compression were around 220? He recommended changing rings and possibly cylinders.

These are 2 codes that showed up back in June:
0402
2021

Also, is there a way to test the crankshaft and camshaft position sensors?
 

vanski

If it’s winter, I’m probably skiing..
Ok, here are the most recent codes:
I2527 - 004
2043 - 002
2043 - 001
2356 - 008

I'm assuming the 2043 is from disconnecting the EGR to start. I have found that disconnecting the charge air hose is what actually helps start the engine and am not touching the EGR anymore.

The most recent mechanic (from the best I can translate his Spanish) thinks that the problem is with low compression in the cylinders. He said one was as low as 140? The ones with higher compression were around 220? He recommended changing rings and possibly cylinders.

These are 2 codes that showed up back in June:
0402
2021

Also, is there a way to test the crankshaft and camshaft position sensors?
With an appropriate scanner you can check for synchronization between cam and crank sensors. Yes, you need these two properly speaking to one another, or rather to the ECM, to get reliable starting. And if you have a flaky battery, which gets even more flaky in the cold, that could be a culprit. But, if that was the case, you should a code (although sometimes it'll be found in your stored codes compared to current as if you don't catch it before it eventually turns over, it's not current)!

So, compression sounds likely but I wouldn't think it'd be so intermittent and once it gets going it really shouldn't run very well at all.. Like very, very, very poorly with little to no ability to drive and the motor should be shaking around like crazy. Perhaps not though..

What units are those compression numbers that you threw out?

I'd give LindenEngineering a call since he seems to be fluent in Spanish and hire him to get you through this...
 

Midwestdrifter

Engineer In Residence
What tool was used to pull those codes? The sprinter fault code guide says those are camshaft codes. I would investigate these, as a bad camshaft sensor signal means no start.

2043 1 Camshaft sensor (B108) Open circuit
2043 2 Camshaft sensor (B108) Short circuit or open circuit

This code is a bit worrisome. Sometimes these internal fault codes can be triggered by harness damage. I would Give the harness a very close look.

2356 8 CDI [ECM] control unit (A94) Internal fault. Replace CDI [ECM] control unit
Given the unplugging the EGR valve helps, its possible that harness damage is affected the ECMs internal power supply (pulling it down). So that unplugging the EGR allows it to recover enough to start? It may be worthwhile seeing what the 12V supply wire to the camshaft sensor is supplying prior and during cranking.
 
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samittelstaedt

New member
Ok, I finally got my scanner to work and came up with 2 new codes:
2013
2359
Any ideas based on these?

Recently a whistling sound has started from the turbo and there is a small amount of oil in the charge air hose.

Also, one consistent thing with the hard starts: every time it starts hard there is no power for a few seconds while black smoke comes out - as soon as the black smoke ends there is full power.
 
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vanski

If it’s winter, I’m probably skiing..
Are they current codes? I’m assuming the 2359 is a -1 meaning you have a loss charge pressure. Probably the most common culprit of this is a cracked turbo resonator around the seam. You can JB weld a fix in the field. Other culprits should be loss of pressure from a hose slipping off a little or a crack in the hose, etc, etc. often times you can see oil vapor in the region where the charge pressure is escaping.

2013 implies the ambient temp sensor is whack iirc. Does your dash temp seem realistic? The sensor is located below the license plate holder or behind the bumper if it’s been messed with.
 

samittelstaedt

New member
Hey everyone, just wanted to post an update - see if there are any more ideas. Codes are cleared and no new ones have shown up. The issue seems a little different now. It has started the 1st time almost every day. BUT if I turn the van off and back on before the engine is hot it idles very low, has very little power and chugs when I press the gas, and when I put it in drive and press the accelerator it dies (there is also some white smoke when it's in park and I press the accelerator - once all the smoke clears it seems to run fine). Usually, when I start it after it dies, it runs completely fine. Sometimes it has happened more than once before the engine is hot. Any more ideas?
 

Midwestdrifter

Engineer In Residence
White smoke indicates two things

Bad injector causing overfueling (though rarely a bad harness can cause white smoke)
Low compression on a cylinder due to damage
In cold weather or at high altitude a bit of white smoke during initial startup (30 seconds) can happen with weak glow plugs.
 

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