Structural Integrity Question

LondonPacific

LondonPacific

07 Cargo Sprinter
I have a 144" wheel base cargo van and was about to order a fixed window for the drivers side behind the door(opposite of cargo door). The dealer said they used to order and install these but can't any more due to a concern about structural integrity. Anyone heard of this?:idunno:

Phillip
 
H

Happy

New member
doesn't make much sense to me, SportsMobile cuts the roof off their pop top Sprinter and that meet MB specs.
 
jdcaples

jdcaples

Not Suitable w/220v Gen
That's a first from what I remember reading.... I also can't recall people posting about having lost structural integrity after installing windows in the CUV.

Perhaps poor training integrity resulted in poor structural integrity?

-Jon
 
Q

qualityair

'09 144" Cargo
I too, at first blush, think the new warning about window installation is BS, but they (MB) added the disclaimer for a reason! Which means they got sued for, a, or multiple previous incidents where someone was injured or killed. The European DOT is much more proactive then the US version.

If the Van was used for work only purposes I would not think much of it, but if My family and grand-kids were to travel in the vehicle, I would worry as to the structural integrity of the van in a accident.

I maybe making a mountain out of a mole hill, but as I get older and hear about strange things happening, it makes me cautious. I also am a small business owner who pays alot of $$$ in workman's compensation and liability insurance, so caution is always in the back of My mind.

It's like, as a child, your Mother told you not to run with scissors in your hand, as you might put your eye out. You thought that was BS, would never occur. But I remember as I got older, reading a newspaper article once about such an exact accident happening.

Once you've been on this earth long enough, you realise strange things can, and will happen. I just want to mitigate my chances of it happening to Me.
 
LondonPacific

LondonPacific

07 Cargo Sprinter
Does anyone know if the passenger models are more reinforced than cargo models? If both are the same than it should be safe(or at least as safe as the passenger models) to install extra windows.
 
kmessinger

kmessinger

Active member
LondonPacific said:
Does anyone know if the passenger models are more reinforced than cargo models? If both are the same than it should be safe(or at least as safe as the passenger models) to install extra windows.
Click to expand...
They are the same. Whatever or where ever that disclaimer came from is BS.

Roadtek, Pleasure Way, SMB and others start as a cargo van.

BTW, if you roll a Sprinter, a disclaimer will probably be the least of your worries.

Regards,

Keith
(who has a family and transports, dogs, wife, nephew, grandkids with absolutely no worries!)
 
Hikinginpdx

Hikinginpdx

Sprinter is for sale
I asked this question a couple of weeks ago and dug around for answers.

First, the '07 Body builders book tells you not to cut in windows. The book shows artwork that explicitly shows the walls of a van which look just like those in my cargo van. They have a huge 'X' saying don't cut here. Instead of cutting order option XBA. No details on what option XBA is.

In '08, I found an option (XBA) that can be ordered for cargo van " Window Opening w/o Glass" . They call this option XBA and charge something like $235. Nobody including the dealer could tell me what it was, nor had they ever seen a van with this option. I was told that XBA wasn't an option until '08 and when they looked at the page they said, yea it says don't cut them in other then in doors.

Final I came across this. I hope the art shows. From the '08 options book, this is their detailed description of the cargo van option 'XBA'

What I see in this picture are holes cut and temp panels inserted for shipping. The description only says it includes holes and temp panels. Nothing about structural changes. As difficult and data driven as I am, this is as good an answer as I think you are going to find. It appears to me that the manufacture changed their story between '07 and '08. Most likely the person that told you no, saw the 'no cut' page and nothing newer. If the manufacture is cutting in windows in a cargo van, I figure there is no issue.

Hope it helps you make your decision.

Keith
 

Attachments

Altered Sprinter

Altered Sprinter

Happy Little Vegemite
Quiz:

[A]..Think Cargo Van v Passenger
[A2]..Think options! for cargo Van Glass factory ordered.

..Think Cargo van delivered! without Glass?
[B2]..Think how the outer metal sheet is cut-out.

[C] What's the primary differences between factory [leading edge profiles;of where the glass meets the inner frame,between outer panel sheet-work and the inner frame.]as opposed to after market! cut-outs?
As to structural integrity.

The Answer lies in the factory ordered Vans! both Cargo and Passenger units.
Richard

​
 
bikergar

bikergar

Active member
I wish I'd taken pictures when I had the headliner out. I did a lot of electrical work above the rear window blank and can't remember if there was less bracing then Hikings pictures.

I do have doublers in in the blank area...:idunno:

DSC02930.JPG
 
clark

clark

New member
Rancho Dodge here in San Diego has a couple vans on the lot that look like the one above. They have temp. covers over the window cutouts. I'll be removing the cargo panels in the next week or so on mine and I'll post a picture so we can compare the bracing above and around the windows. I guess it will look exactly the same.
 
HappyFamilyVan

HappyFamilyVan

Captain Ahab
When dealing with Rancho all I can say is buyer beware. Price may be good...but in my case... No PDI (Post Delivery Inspection) was done...No gas past what was put in at the factory was ever added...my gas tank was almost dry and as a result had all kinds of error codes for the first 500 miles....also check that everything that is suppose to be on/in your Sprinter is there...lots of stuff in mine was missing and I still have not been able to get everything that was on the window sticker delivered...basically it sat for over a year on the lot after it was delivered from the factory...I suspect never even turned on...but I can tell you they will give you a KILLER/great deal on an '08...
 
Q

qualityair

'09 144" Cargo
Hikinginpdx said:
I asked this question a couple of weeks ago and dug around for answers.

First, the '07 Body builders book tells you not to cut in windows. The book shows artwork that explicitly shows the walls of a van which look just like those in my cargo van. They have a huge 'X' saying don't cut here. Instead of cutting order option XBA. No details on what option XBA is.

In '08, I found an option (XBA) that can be ordered for cargo van " Window Opening w/o Glass" . They call this option XBA and charge something like $235. Nobody including the dealer could tell me what it was, nor had they ever seen a van with this option. I was told that XBA wasn't an option until '08 and when they looked at the page they said, yea it says don't cut them in other then in doors.

Final I came across this. I hope the art shows. From the '08 options book, this is their detailed description of the cargo van option 'XBA'

What I see in this picture are holes cut and temp panels inserted for shipping. The description only says it includes holes and temp panels. Nothing about structural changes. As difficult and data driven as I am, this is as good an answer as I think you are going to find. It appears to me that the manufacture changed their story between '07 and '08. Most likely the person that told you no, saw the 'no cut' page and nothing newer. If the manufacture is cutting in windows in a cargo van, I figure there is no issue.

Hope it helps you make your decision.

Keith
Click to expand...
Judging from My '09, there is additional sheet metal bracing over the wheel wheel. In the picture follow the brace between the two window opening, it transfers the load to a new triangle piece just above the wheel well.

PS Look at the photo in the post that I qouted, it did not follow the qoute.
 
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T

Tribunius

New member
Speaking as a 2nd line manufacturer Daimler is very picky about cutting into their products. Any changes other than the ones specifically mentioned in the body builder book have to be approved by them. Which means going over what you intend to do to reinforce the area you have cut. Depeding on how severe you may have to produce drawings. If you don't say good by to the warranty.
 
clark

clark

New member
I can imagine HappyFam. I got an even better price at Folsom Dodge and the make ready was horrible. There was a wasp nest in the rear door frame! (among many other things) I did get a full tank of gas though...

I am very curious now about the extra bracing. I will make a point of posting a picture of my 08 by the end of this weekend so we can compare. Mine is a 3500 though, that could make a difference I guess. Both of the dealers I shopped (Rancho and Folsom) both said they would install any window I wanted, you just cut the hole and stick it in.

Clark
 
bikergar

bikergar

Active member
DSC02930.JPG

On my 144" WB it appears you could put two smaller windows in the back without compromising the structural integrity, but to put one large window in you would be removing major support. I have seen 144's with an after market window in this position. I wonder if that is what they are referring too.

gary
 
kmessinger

kmessinger

Active member
The bracing shown in the window areas above is to provide support for the "skin" itself so you don't have large areas of metal that can flex in and out. You can see the difference between that bracing and the structual supports.

MB cuts them as an option because that is one more place they can make money not because they have some special saw or technicality in mind. They also do it so they can paint the edges and hopefully stop any body rust. :2cents:

Here is my bus before and after SMB cut. smb4.jpg

smb6.jpg

The cutting of windows in the space provided does not reduce structual integrity. Manufacturers that have permission from MB; Sportsmobile, Roadtrek, Pleasure-Way, Airstream, Great West. They can't all be wrong and subjecting their customers to risk.

For those from Missouri . . . I guess you'll never have windows and will continue to live in the dark. Come to the light Carol Anne!

Regards,

Keith

PS. BTW, Roadtrek had to get special permission from MB to cut the windows in the front overhead, a Roadtrek trademark of sorts.
 
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