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Ring man
07-11-2019, 09:58 PM
Hello,

I have a 2003 Sprinter 5 cylinder 2.6 turbo with 220,000 miles on it. Was going down the road and started losing power and the engine quit.

I got it towed back to my house and looked at the engine and looked OK but the fuel filter was rusty so I changed it and purged the air in the line to the low pressure pump and it still did not start.

I next changed the crankcase position sensor, still no start.

I next changed the camshaft position sensor, still no start.

I pulled all the fuses in the truck and all were good.

I bought an icarscan and it shows no codes but it says :

State : Historic

The CAN communication of the engine control module is faulty

P2404

State : Historic

CAN fault - the signal of the stoplight switch is implausible

Mass Air flow sensor -the signal voltage is too low

I don't know what to do next.

Help

Midwestdrifter
07-12-2019, 12:30 AM
What is the fuel pressure when cranking? It should be at least 3,000 psi. What is the RPM on the live data show when cranking? It should be at least 220rpm.

Zundfolge
07-12-2019, 01:09 AM
Since it's an '03 and you changed a seemingly known bad fuel filter, which I don't think will always throw a code, I'd be suspecting that you still have air in the lines. Those things are notoriously hard to purge...

Even without scanning live data, does your tach move up while cranking?

The Grand Tour
07-12-2019, 01:22 AM
Hello,

I have a 2003 Sprinter 5 cylinder 2.6 turbo with 220,000 miles on it. Was going down the road and started losing power and the engine quit.

Then a more accurate title for your thread would replace "Wont Start" with "stalled while driving, won't restart".

I got it towed back to my house...

Why did you tow it to your house instead towing it to a competent Sprinter technician?

...and looked at the engine and looked OK...

What do you mean? In what way was it that the engine "looked OK"?

...but the fuel filter was rusty so I changed it and purged the air in the line to the low pressure pump and it still did not start.

I next changed the crankcase position sensor, still no start.

I next changed the camshaft position sensor, still no start.

I pulled all the fuses in the truck and all were good.

First of all, there is no such thing as a "crankcase position sensor".

Where did you buy all these parts that you replaced?

And when you say "still no start", are you trying to say that it cranks but won't start, or it won't crank, or what?

I bought an icarscan and it shows no codes but it says :

State : Historic

The CAN communication of the engine control module is faulty

P2404

State : Historic

CAN fault - the signal of the stoplight switch is implausible

Mass Air flow sensor -the signal voltage is too low

You're not gonna fix your vehicle with your I-phone.

I don't know what to do next.

Help

I would strongly recommend that you stop guessing by randomly replacing parts for no reason. In addition to spending your money for no reason on parts that your vehicle may not need, you may actually be installing additional problems AND you're not solving your original Complaint. I have seen this happen many, many times.

Guessing is by far the most time-consuming and expensive method of vehicle repair. I would recommend diagnosis instead. Diagnosis is by far the least expensive and quickest method of vehicle repair.

Ring man
07-12-2019, 10:29 AM
It is over 100 miles to a MB dealer and I am broke, money wise, changing those parts was my son's idea and he sent me the parts.

I am pretty sure I purged all the air from the fuel line and am looking for something else to try, I put a rag with gas on it in front of the intake air hose and it almost ran, so I am thinking it is not getting fuel.

Midwestdrifter
07-12-2019, 10:42 AM
Exactly, what scanner do you have? If it's a sprinter compatible scanner such as the ones recommended on this forum you should be able to view live data. this is absolutely critical to good diagnosis and if you aren't using this feature you're putting yourself at a major disadvantage. This is not an old carbureted V-8 or other simple engine. It requires a slightly more advanced approach for diagnosis.

Ring man
07-12-2019, 11:47 AM
I bought the icarsoft MB V2.0, which was recommended on this forum, but it does not give me much information.

Midwestdrifter
07-12-2019, 11:52 AM
Did you check this thread? Cause it looks like it will provide all the live data you need.

https://sprinter-source.com/forum/showthread.php?t=44009

Zundfolge
07-12-2019, 04:47 PM
".

Why did you tow it to your house instead towing it to a competent Sprinter technician?



I would like to know where this magical world is that you reside in, seemingly peppered with smiling, helpful, and competent Sprinter technicians who take a textbook and logical approach to diagnosis and repair, and at a reasonable cost too!

Perhaps if you could tell the op where you take YOUR T1N sprinter in for repairs, then he or she could get the work done there?

Just a thought...

Midwestdrifter
07-12-2019, 04:51 PM
GT is just trying to get a rise out folks, and possibly make himself feel better/superior, while simultaneously feeding a deep seated need for attention. Add him to your ignore list and don't provide food for the troll.

The Grand Tour
07-12-2019, 05:15 PM
It is over 100 miles to a MB dealer and I am broke, money wise, changing those parts was my son's idea and he sent me the parts.

I am pretty sure I purged all the air from the fuel line and am looking for something else to try, I put a rag with gas on it in front of the intake air hose and it almost ran, so I am thinking it is not getting fuel.

Got it.

If you're broke, it's gonna be even more important not to guess.

Did it run perfectly BEFORE it quit? Were there any problems before it quit?

Have you checked to see if it's delivering fuel when cranking?

Bobnoxious
07-12-2019, 05:22 PM
Then a more accurate title for your thread would replace "Wont Start" with "stalled while driving, won't restart".



Why did you tow it to your house instead towing it to a competent Sprinter technician?



What do you mean? In what way was it that the engine "looked OK"?



First of all, there is no such thing as a "crankcase position sensor".

Where did you buy all these parts that you replaced?

And when you say "still no start", are you trying to say that it cranks but won't start, or it won't crank, or what?



You're not gonna fix your vehicle with your I-phone.



I would strongly recommend that you stop guessing by randomly replacing parts for no reason. In addition to spending your money for no reason on parts that your vehicle may not need, you may actually be installing additional problems AND you're not solving your original Complaint. I have seen this happen many, many times.

Guessing is by far the most time-consuming and expensive method of vehicle repair. I would recommend diagnosis instead. Diagnosis is by far the least expensive and quickest method of vehicle repair.

Sounds perfectly reasonable. Now, based on the information provided by OP, astonish the forum with your infallible diagnostic excellence???

Ring man
07-12-2019, 05:25 PM
I live in the Florida Keys, paradise unless you own a Sprinter.

I bought the truck a couple of months ago and was planning to do the servicing myself.

Midwestdrifter
07-12-2019, 05:27 PM
We have a pretty good database of information, and members with good experience. If you are handy, patient, and willing to spend some time reading, you can accomplish all but the most difficult maintenance on your own.

Ring man
07-12-2019, 05:30 PM
Got it.

If you're broke, it's gonna be even more important not to guess.

Did it run perfectly BEFORE it quit? Were there any problems before it quit?

Have you checked to see if it's delivering fuel when cranking?

I am trying to figure out how to check to see if it is delivering fuel, it ran perfect for 20 thousand miles,

Ring man
07-12-2019, 05:35 PM
Sounds perfectly reasonable. Now, based on the information provided by OP, astonish the forum with your infallible diagnostic excellence???

What I am calling the crankcase position sensor is the one located on the driver's side of the upper bell housing

Ring man
07-12-2019, 05:41 PM
Sounds perfectly reasonable. Now, based on the information provided by OP, astonish the forum with your infallible diagnostic excellence???

My son sent them to me, ordered from europarts.com

The Grand Tour
07-12-2019, 05:44 PM
Sounds perfectly reasonable. Now, based on the information provided by OP, astonish the forum with your infallible diagnostic excellence???

Thanks for the comedic set-up, but we've been over this before- it's not possible to diagnose a vehicle over the internet.

And teaching someone vehicle diagnosis over the internet would be much more labor-intensive than simply paying a competent technician to diagnose it for him.

Technicians get paid well, because what they do is a skill that involves significant breadth of knowledge, acquired through the pursuit as a full-time occupation. Good technicians are extremely valuable- if their job was easy, everyone would do it. It's not just buying a wrench and asking questions on the internet.

The Grand Tour
07-12-2019, 05:46 PM
My son sent them to me, ordered from europarts.com

Were they genuine Mercedes-Benz parts, or aftermarket parts?

The Grand Tour
07-12-2019, 05:49 PM
What I am calling the crankcase position sensor is the one located on the driver's side of the upper bell housing

Sounds like the crankshaft position sensor.

The Grand Tour
07-12-2019, 05:53 PM
Was going down the road and started losing power and the engine quit.

I next changed the crankcase position sensor, still no start.

I next changed the camshaft position sensor, still no start.

I pulled all the fuses in the truck and all were good.

If it lost the crankshaft position sensor, the camshaft position sensor, and/or a fuse, it would not have lost power BEFORE stalling.

Bobnoxious
07-12-2019, 06:11 PM
GT is just trying to get a rise out folks, and possibly make himself feel better/superior, while simultaneously feeding a deep seated need for attention. Add him to your ignore list and don't provide food for the troll.

I do not possess a degree in psychology. However, psychology is always been a fascinating subject. Especially while dealing with manipulative and predatory criminals. I guess you could say I've studied with the best. The classroom, prison housing unit, professors, inmates.

Anyway, the behavior is called "Triggering" and feeding "Narcissistic supply" all symptoms enumerated in the DSM-5 and consistent with narcissistic personality disorder. Most of the population exhibit some symptoms. Some more than others because it's a spectrum disorder. In my humble opinion, I am a five, and any person above five, lack introspection, and will vehemently refuse to acknowledge any possibility of them being a narcissist. I could continue, but I think made my point.

Yeah, the ignore list. Personally, I enjoy all contributions regardless how ridiculous, and fairly easy to weed through them.

Kinda of ironic considering my proclivity toward trolling.

I'll try an experiment:

Hey! TGT! According to the DSM-5, Do you believe you are a malignant narcissist?

Ring man
07-12-2019, 06:21 PM
Were they genuine Mercedes-Benz parts, or aftermarket parts?

They are aftermarket parts

Nautamaran
07-12-2019, 06:26 PM
What is the fuel pressure when cranking? It should be at least 3,000 psi. What is the RPM on the live data show when cranking? It should be at least 220rpm.

:thumbup:
Reflect on how the van acted leading up to the stall.
Did it stumble? Cut out all at once? Lack top end? Lack torque?

Going on the hypotheses that the fuel filter was clogged or allowing air into the system, these live data values will be very informative. If the rail pressure is low during cranking, it’s possible (likely?) you’re still dealing with air in or entering the fuel system. A reading of a few hundred psi indicates a lack of LP Fuel Pump pressure. Hopefully just a priming issue, could be a pump failure.

You can crack open the #5 injector fuel line collar 1/4 turn then crank. This will ease back pressure and help priming, and allow you to confirm that fuel is reaching the back end of the rail. If you lack tools you can still unplug the fuel rail pressure relief solenoid valve at the back of the fuel rail. This will prevent it closing, which also helps it release any air during cranking, but you won’t be able to see/confirm fuel or air bubbles escaping. The engine will not build rail pressure so will not fire up in either case.

If you don’t get fuel from the #5 collar fitting, you’ll need to work your way back towards the fuel tank until you find the issue. The fuel system is under pressure only downstream of the LP Fuel pump. Everything upstream of that is under vacuum and NOTORIOUS for sucking in air at any weak point: loose clamps, improper “worm” style hose clamps (you only want to see the smooth, overlapping style with a screw and nut on one side), loose or over-tight water drain on the filter, loose or pinched o-ring on filter return bypass (preheat) fitting, cracked fuel line from the tank, bad o-ring on one or more clear-line fittings. The system relies on the LP Fuel Pump’s self-prime ability, which can weakens over time as the valves and seals age... it’s truly a wonder it ever worked?
(from 2004 on MB used an in-tank pump to pressurize everything, including the filtration, which also primes the full system while you’re waiting for glow plugs to pre-heat. A far more robust system...)

If you ARE getting fuel but not building sufficient fuel rail pressure, you need to look for leaks at the restriction points: the injector return flows and the pressure relief solenoid valve at the back of the rail. The amount of fuel passing these can be measured with the appropriate “leak off” tests. Failure (excessive return flow) indicates a worn out injector, or inoperative relief valve.
The valve requires power to close, so this can be a valve, harness, or ECU fault. Note that a very leaky component can mask other less leaky but still worn out components.

Let future readers know what you find,

-dave

Midwestdrifter
07-12-2019, 06:29 PM
The sprinters fuel injection system needs the following before it will inject fuel

Good cam sensor signal
Good crank sensor signal
fuel pressure of at least (3500?) PSI

If you have those things, it should at least try to inject fuel. All of these can be checked via scanner live data. The cam sensor is going to be shown under a cam/crank sync field (yes/no) Note that some aftermarket (non OE or OEM) sensors for crank/cam can be quite flaky.

Bobnoxious
07-12-2019, 06:35 PM
Back to topic:

When it comes to electronics components, concerns stemming from counterfeiting and poor quality, some of the most experienced forum Sprinter Savants advocate the purchase of genuine Mercedes-Benz.

Counterfeiting is a global scourge, and anyone to believe otherwise is frankly, just plain naïve. Counterfeiting is one subject Trump is fighting for, forcing the Chinese to stop flooding the American market with counterfeit whatever.

Since you have no money, do inspections that don't cost any money. That's what I had to do most of my life.

Start at the beginning:

Battery and grounds. Sprinters like to be fed good healthy electrons.

https://www.mbwholesaleparts.com/content/dam/microsites/mb-wholesale-parts/pdf/1306-mbst-Battery.pdf

https://www.mbwholesaleparts.com/content/dam/microsites/mb-wholesale-parts/pdf/Connections-Come-First.pdf

The Grand Tour
07-12-2019, 06:50 PM
They are aftermarket parts

Read Bob's post below.

It explains what I was talking about regarding "installing" additional problems.

Back to topic:

When it comes to electronics components, concerns stemming from counterfeiting and poor quality, some of the most experienced forum Sprinter Savants advocate the purchase of genuine Mercedes-Benz.

Counterfeiting is a global scourge, and anyone to believe otherwise is frankly, just plain naïve. Counterfeiting is one subject Trump is fighting for, forcing the Chinese to stop flooding the American market with counterfeit whatever.

Yup.

Start at the beginning:

That's what I'm trying to get him to do... :thumbup:

Battery and grounds. Sprinters like to be fed good healthy electrons.

https://www.mbwholesaleparts.com/content/dam/microsites/mb-wholesale-parts/pdf/1306-mbst-Battery.pdf

https://www.mbwholesaleparts.com/content/dam/microsites/mb-wholesale-parts/pdf/Connections-Come-First.pdf

He's not articulating a cranking concern- I already asked him.

If he's moving enough electrons to crank the engine over, then there should be enough left over to do the rest.

Ring man
07-12-2019, 07:03 PM
:thumbup:
Reflect on how the van acted leading up to the stall.
Did it stumble? Cut out all at once? Lack top end? Lack torque?

Going on the hypotheses that the fuel filter was clogged or allowing air into the system, these live data values will be very informative. If the rail pressure is low during cranking, it’s possible (likely?) you’re still dealing with air in or entering the fuel system. A reading of a few hundred psi indicates a lack of LP Fuel Pump pressure. Hopefully just a priming issue, could be a pump failure.

You can crack open the #5 injector fuel line collar 1/4 turn then crank. This will ease back pressure and help priming, and allow you to confirm that fuel is reaching the back end of the rail. If you lack tools you can still unplug the fuel rail pressure relief solenoid valve at the back of the fuel rail. This will prevent it closing, which also helps it release any air during cranking, but you won’t be able to see/confirm fuel or air bubbles escaping. The engine will not build rail pressure so will not fire up in either case.

If you don’t get fuel from the #5 collar fitting, you’ll need to work your way back towards the fuel tank until you find the issue. The fuel system is under pressure only downstream of the LP Fuel pump. Everything upstream of that is under vacuum and NOTORIOUS for sucking in air at any weak point: loose clamps, improper “worm” style hose clamps (you only want to see the smooth, overlapping style with a screw and nut on one side), loose or over-tight water drain on the filter, loose or pinched o-ring on filter return bypass (preheat) fitting, cracked fuel line from the tank, bad o-ring on one or more clear-line fittings. The system relies on the LP Fuel Pump’s self-prime ability, which can weakens over time as the valves and seals age... it’s truly a wonder it ever worked?
(from 2004 on MB used an in-tank pump to pressurize everything, including the filtration, which also primes the full system while you’re waiting for glow plugs to pre-heat. A far more robust system...)

If you ARE getting fuel but not building sufficient fuel rail pressure, you need to look for leaks at the restriction points: the injector return flows and the pressure relief solenoid valve at the back of the rail. The amount of fuel passing these can be measured with the appropriate “leak off” tests. Failure (excessive return flow) indicates a worn out injector, or inoperative relief valve.
The valve requires power to close, so this can be a valve, harness, or ECU fault. Note that a very leaky component can mask other less leaky but still worn out components.

Let future readers know what you find,

-dave

Thanks Dave,

It just shut down going down the road, I will crack that fuel line now.

The Grand Tour
07-12-2019, 07:15 PM
Was going down the road and started losing power and the engine quit.

Thanks Dave,

It just shut down going down the road...

Your first post made it sound like the engine started losing power AND THEN stalled, but your last post makes it sound like it simply stalled while driving. Which is it?

Ring man
07-12-2019, 08:36 PM
I cracked the fuel line at the injector with a clear hose filled with fuel above the LP pump and nothing came out.

I am thinking the pump is bad.

Ring man
07-12-2019, 08:40 PM
Your first post made it sound like the engine started losing power AND THEN stalled, but your last post makes it sound like it simply stalled while driving. Which is it?

It was hard to tell, my wife was driving and I wasn't paying attention, but she thinks it was loosing power because she kept down shifting.

Nautamaran
07-12-2019, 08:55 PM
I cracked the fuel line at the injector with a clear hose filled with fuel above the LP pump and nothing came out.

I am thinking the pump is bad.

Sounding like it?
If the LP pump isn’t making pressure the HP pump won’t either.
(true for OM647 too)
You can confirm by disconnecting the line between the LP and HP pumps and see if it moves any fuel. Some report finding it helps to apply suction to the LP outlet (without cranking) until it achieves a clean prime, then connect it back to the HP pump.

It certainly could be a LP pump failure.
They can fail quickly or slowly... An electrical failure would usually be intermittent then a sudden stall.

-dave

Midwestdrifter
07-12-2019, 09:05 PM
You need at least 58psi on the low pressure side, or the HP pump won't produce any fuel. With the ignition on, the fuel pump in the tank will run for about 60 seconds. Put an ear to the tank, can you hear it running? If its really loud, or no noise at all, you may have a bad pump (blown fuse or relay are also options).

The Grand Tour
07-12-2019, 09:08 PM
I cracked the fuel line at the injector with a clear hose filled with fuel above the LP pump and nothing came out.

...while the engine was being cranked over, right?

How much fuel was in the tank when it died? When did you last refuel? Did you buy fuel from the same place you always do? Do they sell a lot of diesel there? Does the vehicle sit a lot, or do you drive it every day?

Do you use a fuel additive to prevent algae? If so, how often have you been using it, and how often do you use it?

Cheyenne
07-12-2019, 09:24 PM
You need at least 58psi on the low pressure side, or the HP pump won't produce any fuel. 9b0With the ignition on, the fuel pump in the tank[/b] will run for about 60 seconds. Put an ear to the tank, can you hear it running? If its really loud, or no noise at all, you may have a bad pump (blown fuse or relay are also options).

But an '03 does not have an electric pump in the tank! It relies solely on the mechanical pump on the engine drawing fuel from the tank.

Can you see any signs of the pump drawing fuel in the clear lines by the pump?

Keith.

Nautamaran
07-12-2019, 09:26 PM
2003 - so no electric tank pump. Just the priming nightmare that is the om612 LP Pump.
:thumbup:

-dave

Midwestdrifter
07-12-2019, 09:57 PM
Your right, I got my threads crossed. You still need something like 15psi from the LP pump. No Electric pump on the 03.

The OM612 LP pumps are quite reliable, so I would guess you have an air leak somewhere.

Some folks report using a spare fuel cap to put about 1psi in the fuel tank is enough to overcome air leaks. Might be worth a try.

Ring man
07-12-2019, 10:36 PM
...while the engine was being cranked over, right?

How much fuel was in the tank when it died? When did you last refuel? Did you buy fuel from the same place you always do? Do they sell a lot of diesel there? Does the vehicle sit a lot, or do you drive it every day?

Do you use a fuel additive to prevent algae? If so, how often have you been using it, and how often do you use it?

There is a half a tank in it.

I buy Velero fuel, from the same place and they sell lots of it, I was putting 100 miles a day, it doesn't sit.

As much as I was using it, I didn't think it needed it.

Nautamaran
07-12-2019, 10:57 PM
You can quickly confirm or rule out algae if you have your old filter to cut open. It will be immediately obvious if you have been colonized.

Some biocides / algae inhibitors can be an issue in themselves if users over-dose the tank and reduce the lubricity of the fuel.
Not so much an issue with my grandfather’s Detroit or Caterpillar with relatively sloppy, cam driven plunger injectors, but CRD / CDI components are a closer fit and require better fuel quality. Low lubricity can drastically increase wear rates of the fuel pump and injector valves.

To your priming efforts, are your clear fuel lines full and free of air bubbles?
Do any new bubbles form when you apply suction to the LP pump outlet line?

Good luck,

-dave

Added:
I’ll bump the fact you’ve installed aftermarket Crank and Cam position sensors, but that’s on the back burner until you’ve got fuel spurting from the fuel rail fittings during cranking, then see 3000 psi rail pressure after you tighten it.

WARNING: don’t be near HP fittings during cranking. The high pressure spray from a leaking fitting can penetrate skin and poison you dead. No joke.

The Grand Tour
07-13-2019, 05:59 AM
There is a half a tank in it.

I buy Velero fuel, from the same place and they sell lots of it, I was putting 100 miles a day, it doesn't sit.

As much as I was using it, I didn't think it needed it.

Copy.

Those are all good indications.

Ring man
07-13-2019, 05:41 PM
I ordered e new pump.

Took the old one apart to see what it looked like, looked fine so I put it back together.

I filed it with fuel and put it back on with the gravity hose filled and when I cranked it fuel over filled the hose instead of sucking it in.

Midwestdrifter
07-13-2019, 05:48 PM
Are you certain the inlet and outlet hoses aren't reversed? If memory serves they use the same fitting.

The Grand Tour
07-13-2019, 06:46 PM
I ordered e new pump.

Buddy, you're guessing again.

Your vehicle is built out of many thousands of parts- the odds of you guessing correctly are pretty slim.

Did you order an aftermarket fuel pump, or a genuine Mercedes-Benz fuel pump? I'd hate to see you install any more problems into your vehicle.

Took the old one apart to see what it looked like, looked fine so I put it back together.

I filed it with fuel and put it back on with the gravity hose filled and when I cranked it fuel over filled the hose instead of sucking it in.

Your statement makes it sound like the fuel pump is pumping fuel, which is what fuel pumps are supposed to do.

Ring man
07-14-2019, 10:58 AM
Buddy, you're guessing again.

Your vehicle is built out of many thousands of parts- the odds of you guessing correctly are pretty slim.

Did you order an aftermarket fuel pump, or a genuine Mercedes-Benz fuel pump? I'd hate to see you install any more problems into your vehicle.



Your statement makes it sound like the fuel pump is pumping fuel, which is what fuel pumps are supposed to do.

To me i seems hat the check valve in the pump is letting the fuel back up the gravity hose, it should lower the fuel in the hose.

I ordered am OEM pump.

Midwestdrifter
07-14-2019, 11:47 AM
The LP pump is a gear type pump. It can only move fuel one direction. When they fail (which is rare) is usually low flow, not reverse flow. You can remove the pump and spin with with a drill on the bench. I am not intimately familiar with the plumbing on this unit, but there should be some details in the 03 service manual and training materials.

autostaretx
07-14-2019, 02:42 PM
2003 service manual: http://www.diysprinter.co.uk/reference/05%20service%20manual.pdf

(you probably already have it, but it never hurts to mention where to find it (for future readers))

--dick

Nautamaran
07-14-2019, 02:58 PM
Are you certain the inlet and outlet hoses aren't reversed? If memory serves they use the same fitting.

LP pump draws in through the lower fitting, pushes out through the upper fitting. From 2003 service manual:
http://www.diysprinter.co.uk/reference/2003SprinterManuals.zip
OPERATION - LOW PRESSURE PUMP
The low pressure pump draws fuel from tank through fuel filter and supplies the high pressure pump. Fuel pressure at starter speed is 0.4 to 1.5 bar (6 to 22 psi.). A fuel pressure of 2.0 to 2.5 bar (29 to 36 psi.) is reached at idle speed. Fuel pressure is lim- ited to 3.5 bar ± .5 bar (51 psi. ± 7 psi) by the valve in the fuel delivery pump. This valve opens by over coming a spring force and allows excessive fuel to flow to the intake side of the low pressure pump. This diverted fuel flows into the return flow pipe through the fuel cooler back to the tank. As a result of this circulation, the fuel always remains relatively
cool.
-dave

autostaretx
07-14-2019, 05:47 PM
The link that Nautamaran pointed at: http://www.diysprinter.co.uk/reference/2003SprinterManuals.zip
..includes the 2003 sub-system diagnostic manuals as well as the basic service manual. :thumbup:

--dick

Ring man
07-14-2019, 07:25 PM
Thanks for all the links guys.

When I get the new pump I was thinking about filling it with fuel before I put it on, is that a good idea?

Midwestdrifter
07-14-2019, 07:35 PM
It needs to be VERY clean fuel. (filtered to 5 micron minimum) Otherwise I suggest using a hand vaccum pump to pull filtered fuel up through the filter. The injectors and pump are very sensitive to contamination, even contamination you can't see.

Ring man
07-14-2019, 08:26 PM
It needs to be VERY clean fuel. (filtered to 5 micron minimum) Otherwise I suggest using a hand vaccum pump to pull filtered fuel up through the filter. The injectors and pump are very sensitive to contamination, even contamination you can't see.

Thanks, I will run it through a coffee filter first.

Midwestdrifter
07-14-2019, 08:37 PM
Thanks, I will run it through a coffee filter first.



:lol:

Coffee filters are 20 micron at best. But I guess its just a little bit of fuel...

Ring man
07-14-2019, 11:32 PM
I read in he manual that you should fill the pump, then i says you should attach a vacuum pump but is not clear on how to do this.

Where would I attach it?

Midwestdrifter
07-15-2019, 12:32 AM
To the outet of the pump I would guess. If you have a hand pump, you can just pull fuel up through the filter. Then pour that into the pump. Of you have a pump though, you can just install everything, and then prime via the pump output line.

I have not done this on the OM612 myself, so I can't off any tips.

hkpierce
07-15-2019, 08:45 PM
https://sprinter-source.com/forum/showthread.php?t=57440

billintomahawk
07-16-2019, 03:39 AM
GT is just trying to get a rise out folks, and possibly make himself feel better/superior, while simultaneously feeding a deep seated need for attention. Add him to your ignore list and don't provide food for the troll.

MWD,

Thank you.

I was bit.

bill in tomahawk

Ring man
07-18-2019, 04:36 PM
Well I am not having good luck, I replaced the low pressure pump, filled it by sucking fuel through the filter, and I still have no fuel at the injectors.

I just do not know what to check next.:frown:

Midwestdrifter
07-18-2019, 05:14 PM
You have confirmed fuel is flowing from the LP pump outlet? The LP pump is spinning at all? You can watch the cam gear through the oil fill location on the valve cover.

Bobnoxious
07-18-2019, 05:41 PM
This sounds a similar to your issue.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=p07yjGPDdxg

The Grand Tour
07-18-2019, 06:07 PM
Well I am not having good luck, I replaced the low pressure pump, filled it by sucking fuel through the filter, and I still have no fuel at the injectors.

I just do not know what to check next.:frown:

As I previously stated:

I would strongly recommend that you stop guessing by randomly replacing parts for no reason. In addition to spending your money for no reason on parts that your vehicle may not need, you may actually be installing additional problems AND you're not solving your original Complaint. I have seen this happen many, many times.

Guessing is by far the most time-consuming and expensive method of vehicle repair. I would recommend diagnosis instead. Diagnosis is by far the least expensive and quickest method of vehicle repair.

BrennWagon
07-18-2019, 10:21 PM
Have you removed the air from the fuel lines downstream of the low pressure pump? 2006 models are self priming but I believe I’ve heard that 2003’s are not

Aqua Puttana
07-19-2019, 12:49 PM
Have you removed the air from the fuel lines downstream of the low pressure pump? 2006 models are self priming but I believe I’ve heard that 2003’s are not
Any Sprinter with an in tank fuel pump easily self primes. That is NAS aka NAFTA 2004 MY and up. There is no reason to pre-fill the fuel filter. A few ignition key timed on off cycles will pump fuel around through the system.

A slight correction on the NAS 2001 - 2003 MY with engine mounted low pressure mechanical fuel pump (OM612 engines).
As long as the fuel system is leak free the suck pump system is also self priming. If the fuel filter isn't pre-filled it takes quite a bit of cranking, but a tight system will eventually self prime. If I owned an OM612 model (I don't) I would pre-fill the fuel filter to save some wear and tear on the starter.

:cheers: vic

Se1900
07-20-2019, 11:18 PM
My 2 dollar tips
115712 115711
Verry comon fault on 612 that the o-ring on the fuel Pressure regulator splits= no rail pressure.
And very cheap inssurance.
Use som brakcleaner/starterfluid to get the engine running.

billintomahawk
07-21-2019, 05:28 AM
A slight correction on the NAS 2001 - 2003 MY with engine mounted low pressure mechanical fuel pump (OM612 engines).
As long as the fuel system is leak free the suck pump system is also self priming. If the fuel filter isn't pre-filled it takes quite a bit of cranking, but a tight system will eventually self prime. If I owned an OM612 model (I don't) I would pre-fill the fuel filter to save some wear and tear on the starter.

:cheers: vic

Take this as Sprinter gospel.

bill in tomahawk

Ring man
07-24-2019, 11:04 AM
:clapping: Well I finally got it.

Thanks for al the help.

What worked was cracking all the injectors and hooking the the pump to the filter intake from he tank and sucked fuel from a can until all air was gone.

Aqua Puttana
07-24-2019, 01:53 PM
:clapping: Well I finally got it.

Thanks for al the help.

What worked was cracking all the injectors and hooking the the pump to the filter intake from he tank and sucked fuel from a can until all air was gone.
Thanks for the update.

Not that you asked...

Those measures shouldn't be necessary on a tight system. Be aware that if you again run into intermittent starting problems you may still have air leaks in the fuel system.

:2cents: vic

Midwestdrifter
07-24-2019, 01:56 PM
I would keep an eye out for air leaks into the system. As AP mentions, I suspect a leak somewhere.

billintomahawk
07-24-2019, 03:04 PM
Anyone with an 02-03 T1N Sprinter needs to read through this thread.

Especially if it won't start hot or cold.

Air bubbles in the clear fuel line between the fuel filter and the low pressure are easy to see, the fix and priming are also easy if you fill the fuel filter before installing and do not have any leaks.

https://sprinter-source.com/forum/showthread.php?t=20104&highlight=fix+fuel+filter

bill in tomahawk