80-20 framing

sikwan

06 Tin Can
I think there are a couple, but only one of them is still around. I think George (georgetg) has used some for his sink/cabinet. The other user used it as a bed platform.
 

Happy

New member
still working on this, talking to the 80/20 resellers. Turns out the ordering process is to request ordering info from 80/20 and then get contacted by every reseller in your area.
I remain very very enthused with the flexibility of this system and I'm burning about two hours of brain cycles a day considering how to design it.
 

d_bertko

Active member
Happy,

Keep us posted on what you find out about the design process.

I downloaded the 80/20 catalog, price list, design examples and got an overload of info. I'm scratching my head about the deflection info.

80/20 material costs seem very expensive, perhaps twice the cost of the plain-jane aluminum extrusion source in my area. Seems important to use the smallest-area geometry that will do the job. Pretty hard to do without that hold-it-in-your-hands experience. Maybe some other experienced users can be found on the Web.

My rough sense is that a loveseat convertible bed project I have in mind will cost about 4x the price of doing it in wood.

Intriguing stuff.
 

tymbo

New member
I am building a frame for a small diesel generator. The 80/20 stuff is very expensive, but is of very high quality. 80/20 has a ebay store that makes it easy to order for the average Joe.

http://stores.shop.ebay.com/8020-Inc-Garage-Sale__W0QQ_armrsZ1

You can get an idea about prices, and sometimes you can find some bargains.
Also, I found that fasteners can be found elsewhere for MUCH less than they want.

Tim
 

georgetg

2005 140" low roof
For lightweight framing the QuickFrame series of extrusions offers a quick and economical way of building enclosures.
The Plastic framing connectors make it easy to build structures that look neat and clean.
If you get the flanged QuickFrame extrusions and add Alucobond panels (solid PE core) you have decent stuctural integrity, for lightweight applications the Alumacore panels (open cell core) offer good results.

In my experience the 10 and 25 Series extrusions will be more than adequate smaller structural applications.
The 15 and 40 series extrusions are great for load bearing structural applications and bigger spans.

By mixing and matching extrusions and regular aluminum profiles you can build strong structural elements quite quickly.

As mentioned the 8020 eBay option is probably the best way to buy these products without undergoing a "sales consultation"
In addition Bosch produces a large assortment of extrusions with the unique difference that their extrusion cores are setup for self tapping screws -- no need to cut threads.

Cheers
George
 

Happy

New member
Will keep you posted. I intend the publish the design here once I have some drawings and see what people think. I have this idea
that publishing as much info as possible about this will result in some time saved for others. It would be nice if people could say, I like Happy's computer desk --> Print, order, screw together.

I agree to that it seems very expensive but I like the idea that I can dig through their Giant Catalog and potentially reconfigure a cabinet to have a slide out pantry (random example) by unscrewing my existing furniture.

One of the dealers that contacted me, tecopnumatics, says they have free design work along with the parts purchase... Free always
sounds really expensive to me but we'll see how it goes. http://www.tecopneumatic.com

Very rough sketch so far shows three pieces of furniture, no piece being dependent on the other so that if this turns into a total screw up, I'm only 1/3 screwed by doing one piece first. I will see how much value teco pneumatics adds on one piece and proceed from there.

What I'm thinking is the area where my crew bench is now should have a basic desk with bamboo top (basic, heh, watch this get complicated). In the back I want two cabinets on each side with bunks that flip up against the walls to reveal white boards and cork boards (brain storming / planning areas)

One piece, one of the rear cabinet/bunks, will happen fairly quickly, the rest will follow over this winter.



Happy,

Keep us posted on what you find out about the design process.

I downloaded the 80/20 catalog, price list, design examples and got an overload of info. I'm scratching my head about the deflection info.

80/20 material costs seem very expensive, perhaps twice the cost of the plain-jane aluminum extrusion source in my area. Seems important to use the smallest-area geometry that will do the job. Pretty hard to do without that hold-it-in-your-hands experience. Maybe some other experienced users can be found on the Web.

My rough sense is that a loveseat convertible bed project I have in mind will cost about 4x the price of doing it in wood.

Intriguing stuff.
 

Graphite Dave

Dave Orton
Have you done your conversion with 80/20? Just found this thread. I will be using 80/20 on my conversion. I have some experience using 80/20 on conveyors. One advantage of 80/20 is the self locking design of the slot. It acts like a lock washer to resist vibration. When you tighten bolt it deforms the slot. Good for vehicles. We use a standard 3500 rpm wood chop saw with a blade designed for aluminum. We used a 12" saw due to the size of our conveyor extrusions which are 3 3/8" x 4". The saw blade is a Skarpaz brand part # NF121N with the following specifications: Dia. 12", tooth count 100, Style N5TCG, Plate .095", Kerf .125" and Bore 1". I am sure they make a similar blade in a smaller diameter. Cuts the aluminum with a machined like surface. I have built a crossbar out of 1 1/2" 80/20 for the roof rack. Lasered some 12 ga. SS angles for the supports and the retainer that fits in the channel slot on my 2008 144". A 5/16" carriage bolt slides in the slot on the crossbar so you can mount items to the 80/20. I also used it as a tie down rail on my pickup. Used carriage bolt in slot with a female eyebolt so I can tie down loads. I use a 3/8" dia. round plastic nylon spacer between the eyebolt and the 80/20.
The base of the Sprinter cabinets will have the slot accessible so I can use the same eyebolts for tie downs. I can move the eyebolt anywhere along the 80/20 and tighten with a screwdriver thru the eyebolt hole. I will have a composite floor in the Sprinter. 1/4" plywood base, 3/4" of closed cell foamboard insulation and a 1/4" plywood top. I will use 1" 80/20 on top of the base 1/4" and bolt the 80/20 to the floor using the Sprinter tiedown loop anchor bolts. The 1" 80/20 will be used to bolt the cabinets to the floor. 1" 80/20 will run across the van width at the Sprinter tiedown locations. I will not install the 3/4" insulation where I want to run water and electrical wiring in floor.
 

d_bertko

Active member
Graphite Dave,

Terrific to see another Sprinter 80/20 pioneer to take some arrows for us.

I thought I was going overboard when I installed 4 strips of L-track in the floor, 3 strips on each side and 2 strips in the ceiling. But I was wrong. It was absolutely the best thing. I had seen it used to secure wheelchairs and to secure cars on trailers. Figured it was strong relative to the bulkier e-track. (And I'm pretty convinced that a MB designer saw my Web pix since their sidewall track option 2 years later looked just like my install.)

Sorry for the L-track lecture. The point being that the threaded studs offer very high load ratings. They do not loosen by themselves. Excellent for securing any module. The other point is that the swivel rings are so easy to use for tie-down points. I can't imagine using a screwdriver to move a tiedown point. I move mine every time I load more than two or three things.

I am curious about your floor sandwich. A specialty plywood supplier near me sells marine ply-foam-ply sandwiches of various thicknesses. I had considered building cabinets for the weight savings. Did not occur to me to make a floor. Do you think the 1/4" top ply is substantial enough? Why bother with the bottom ply for the floor?

It is a great help to get 80/20 hints from experienced hands. Keep them coming!

Dan
 

ECU

2006 T1n 118 Sprinter
I have been thinking 80/20. To flesh out my idea, I have been using 1/2" PVC to create some cabinet designs. turns out this stuff is quite sturdy when you box it all up.
 

Graphite Dave

Dave Orton
Can you give me a source for the marine composite panels? Since the first post I have measured the distance between my (5'-10") head and the roof of the van. I have about 6 1/2" clearance so will increase thickness of the floor to 1 3/4". The floor has formed channels for strength. I will fill between the channels with strip insulation. The bottom 1/4" plywood is to isolate the 80/20 from the metal floor of the van. I will now use square 1 1/2" 1515-Lite for the crossbars. They will be bolted to the floor with the existing tiedown hoop bolts. I will bolt an angle to the floor and then bolt the angle to the 80/20 which will span the van floor width. The 1 1/2" 80/20 uses a 5/16" carriage bolt instead of the 1/4" in the 1". There will be 4 crossbars. Two at the sliding door step and two that use the tiedowns in front and behind wheel wells. The space between the 80/20 will be filled with 1" rigid closed cell foam boards except for two open slots that I will use for electrical and plumbing chases. I will also add sound deadening material between the bottom 1/4" plywood and the 1" foam board. One open slot will be located under the sink (which is located just in front of the right rear wheel housing and the other will be located just inside of the rear doors. I will have a water tank located over the right rear wheel well with the pump etc. located in the right rear corner of the van. Water lines will be in the floor to the left side of the van to service shower/portapotti enclosure located behind driver seat. The top of the 80/20 crossbars will be left exposed for tiedown purposes and to bolt the cabinets to the floor. While the 80/20 is more expensive that welded tubing, the labor savings and ability to bolt anywhere on the 80/20 more than makes up for the extra material cost. The top plywood between the 80/20 will now be 3/8". I will glue 3/4" x 1 1/8" strips to the bottom 1/4" plywood and glue the top 3/8" plywood to the strips. The purpose of the composite floor is to insulate the floor, give a location for utilities, and provide a method of bolting cabinets to the floor without drilling additional holes in the Sprinter floor. I have used the 80/20 as bed rails on my pickups for years. It is easy to move the eyebolts where you want them. The bottom of all the cabinets will have exposed 80/20 so I can put eyebolts on them as well. I will also have 80/20 on the top edge of the wheelwell enclosures which will be another location for tiedowns. I think I might have enough tiedown locations! As soon as I can finish transferring my conveyor business to the new buyer I can get started. The floor, 80/20 roof rack and getting the spare tire out from under van will be the first projects. I have designed a neat tire rack that bolts to the OEM trailer hitch that will have a fiberglass spring to offset the tire weight when you lower wheel to open left rear door.
 

d_bertko

Active member
I saw the ply-foam-ply sandwich material at http://www.boulterplywood.com/. You might have to call them since I didn't see it on their web page. Came in lots of choices. Designed for the yacht trade I believe. Boulter is on the wrong coast so you might look for a local supplier. Their specialty ply stuff was beautiful. I bought my Wackywood from them. All the plies run in one direction so it takes the radius curve between roof and sidewalls readily. Fun stuff. I used flanged L-track to hold all my wall and ceiling panels in. That means the panels can be removed to service what's behind them by simply loosening the L-track. Have not had to do that but this was my first rv conversion and I wanted it to be mistake tolerant.

I think it's hilarious that you're going to some trouble to not drill through the floor. I kept the original MB floor---I'm 6'4" and the trimmed height in my 02 is absolutely maxed at 6'1". So I routed in unflanged L-track and proceeded to drill 150 holes for my 1/4" stainless steel bolts. No problems five years later.

I found excellent chases in the sidewalls for my ac, dc, stereo wiring---I've got power outlets in every corner. Seemed like a good idea to keep it away from the possibility of a wet floor.

Are you sure you need to run water lines under the floor? Sounds like a PITA for winterizing, especially since your tank seems to be inside the warm interior already. We love our PowerShower, a 5 gal bucket with a 12v powered spray wand. We reluctantly hang shower curtains (from the ceiling L-track) and use it inside as an aisle shower. Fair weather has us using it inside our "shower sock" that hangs off the back doors for a 8' tall x 5' wide man-size shower space. It also provides hot water to our outdoor kitchen. A compact and portable solution that keeps the wetness outside as much as possible.

If you added flanges to your floor 80/20 maybe that would suffice to hold the ply down but still keep it removable for servicing. (I still can't understand why you need the bottom ply...) Like this flanged track: http://www.sprinter-source.com/forum/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=86467 But I had no qualms about bolting through the floor---everyone else mounts things that way.

Dan
 
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Graphite Dave

Dave Orton
Thanks for the plywood lead. I will follow up on that. The bottom 1/4" plywood lets me glue 1 1/8" x 3/4" stringers to the floor and will reduce the heat transfer from the floor to the 80/20 and from there to the interior. The stingers will support the upper 3/8" floor. The chases are above the Sprinter steel floor in the sandwich between the 1/4" and 3/8" plywood (1 1/8" height). The 3/8" floor plywood over the chases will be removable for access. The shower/portapotti enclosure makes its use quick and easy without any setup. Also can be used for storage. Why drill holes in the floor if you do not need to? The 8 bolts are plenty to retain floor/cabinets. All the cabinets will bolt to the four 80/20 extrusions in the floor that span the width of the van. As soon as I have a drawing of the floor I will try to post it in PDF format for your approval. Thanks for your interest. I have been known to not do things the same as everone else.
 

Happy

New member
Have you done your conversion with 80/20? Just found this thread.
And I just found your reply full of great info! I have not yet started because I wound up putting everything on hold, getting a new job and leaving the SF Bay Area for Utah.

My goal is still to use 80/20. My immediate need is only for a bed
platform and additional tie down points reconfigurable for unknown future uses for the van. I think I can do this with two long extrusions down the interior mid wall and then some cross pieces. I'm not sure of the best way to attach the 80/20 to the walls though. Also I'm assuming that the mid wall area would support a sleeping platform (without any load distribution through vertical supports to the floor) without deforming. If anybody thinks I'm wrong on that please hollar before I ugly up the nice smooth exterior.
 

Graphite Dave

Dave Orton
I looked at the pictures of the 80/20 bed on the Sprinter Forum. He/she through bolted the extrusion to the van wall. 80/20 comes in either inch or metric versions. If you use the inch version, a 5/16-18NC carriage can be slid in the end of the extrusion. The extrusion can be bolted to the wall with the carriage bolts in the slot against the Sprinter wall. You can get your hand up behind the wall to install the nut. I would suggest elastic stop nuts for this application. By using the carriage bolts in the wall side slot, the slot towards the van centerline can be empty without any bolts in the way. I will use a 1 1/2" x 3" 80/20 extrusion against the wall. The top edge of the 80/20 will be 1 1/2" above the start of the 45 degree slope below the window locations. The bottom 1 1/2" will be bolted to the sprinter wall. The bottom of the 1 1/2" x 3" extrusion will be about 28 1/2" above the stock plywood floor. I want the bed platform to be high enough so I use the maximum width of the Sprinter. The Sprinter measures approx. 73" width between the side panel ribs. A double bed mattress is about the same length. I will not have windows where the bed is located. My Sprinter is a 144" wheelbase. I have a window in the sliding door and in the rear door windows. I will not be adding any additional windows so I can use the full width for the bed.

In previous post I have given information on how to cut the 80/20. I use a regular wood chop saw with an aluminum cutting blade. No need to order all the parts cut to length. Just buy some long straights and have at it. The 80/20 is available with 4 slots,3 slots, 2 slots or just one slot. You do not have to have slots showing everywhere. For example I will use a two slot extrusion at the corners of my cabinets. I will post some drawings and pictures when I get it done. My first project will be the floor. I will have a 1 3/4" thick insulated floor. As you might guess I will use 80/20 in the floor to bolt to the existing Sprinter tiedown bolts. Then I will bolt the cabinets to the top surface of the 80/20. So far all design and talk but no project completions!
 

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