Is R134a still the proper refrigerant?

I want to recharge the A/C myself. Is R134a still the proper refrigerant for our vans or has it been fazed out and replaced by something else?

Thanks again for help!

R134a is the correct refrigerant.
Now how are you going to recharge it?
Not with 1lb cans I trust!
Before you spend money unnecessary ask yourself how much R134a is in the can, and how much oil is in the can AS WELL TO MAKE UP THE 1LB CONTENTS?

Now caution.
I had a customer that wanted to do what you are now proposing.
Having charged about 20 cans of contents (The floor in the back was covered in cans) into the system it still didn't work!
In short I had to evacuate the system into non useable recovery machine and mark the extract as a Hazmat, The principal reason was that the contents had stop leak in it AND the oil was not to spec! With about 3 liters of oil in system it wrecked the already expensive and difficult to find compressor.

The job cost about $1500 to put right when I bet it wouldn't have cost him $250 to originally re-instate it !

I advised you to consult an independent HVAC shop to inspect it !
I suppose it your money and your decision but it begs me to ask why are you asking for qualified genuine advise and you clearly are looking to do unqualified repairs to something that needs some skilled intervention.
Dennis

lindenengineering said:

I advised you to consult an independent HVAC shop to inspect it !
I suppose it your money and your decision but it begs me to ask why are you asking for qualified genuine advise and you clearly are looking to do unqualified repairs to something that needs some skilled intervention.
Dennis

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You must be referring to my recent post about my obscure Airpro rear cargo a/c/heater. I am taking your sound advice on having a pro repair that unit. With regards to this post, I am solely interested in recharging the basic front cab a/c which I thought would be a simple diy project for me. But if you are saying it isn't a simple process and also requires a professional, then thanks again for the warning and I will certainly add this to the list of items for the HVAC guy to work on.

Much appreciated.

Fyi, it is a simple matter to get small canisters of pure 134A. Just avoid the stuff with standbys sealants and oil unless you know what your doing. Wal-Mart had a store brand canister that is seasonal at 7$ each.

My Sprinter's A Lemon said:

I am solely interested in recharging the basic front cab a/c...

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Why?

Why? Because my main A/C was inoperable when I purchased the vehicle and its time to address it. All the buttons work and lights illuminate so I suspect it may just need freon. I always thought one could recharge one's own a/c. I didn't know it required a pro to do it properly as suggested. But now MidW is saying it can easily be done...so I look forward to you guys discussing it here so I can make an informed decision.

Midwestdrifter said:

Fyi, it is a simple matter to get small canisters of pure 134A. Just avoid the stuff with standbys sealants and oil unless you know what your doing. Wal-Mart had a store brand canister that is seasonal at 7$ each.

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Try getting a 1lb can of R134a that as no oil in it!
How do you know from the OP 's narrative that the system might be full or partially full? You don't neither do I !
Then rather it might have an electrical problem, with say the clutch or control head? Both are problematic areas.

A simple evacuation & charge with a PROFESSIONAL charging & recycling machine (cost $6500) resolves that issue. The cost at say a Jiffy lube or independent shop is about $75 for this service. (That is what we charge, plus some refrigerant.)

Remember a couple of cans of R134a from an auto parts store store will cost you $70 (if you include a can tap and rent some gauges) .and if you don't know what you are doing then you can inherit some expensive additional problems maybe burn yourself even or blinding can occur if you are really careless . .

If they pinpoint a leakage area(s) then by all means go away and change out the parts & then have them recharge it with the correct amount!
Now that makes prefect sense as an alternative!

You will avoid a failing grade at the DIY /YouTube Graduate University classes & graduation and avoid the head shaking from us TRAINED AND CERTIFIED folk who have had years fixing this stuff, having passed proctored examinations on the repair and dispensing of refrigerants for profit .
Make life simple.
Dennis

My Sprinter's A Lemon said:

Why? Because my main A/C was inoperable when I purchased the vehicle and its time to address it. All the buttons work and lights illuminate so I suspect it may just need freon. I always thought one could recharge one's own a/c. I didn't know it required a pro to do it properly as suggested. But now MidW is saying it can easily be done...so I look forward to you guys discussing it here so I can make an informed decision.

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There are countless other possible causes for an air conditioning system to not work besides low refrigerant charge. Putting more refrigerant into the system in the absence of actual diagnosis, could destroy some very expensive stuff, as Dennis pointed out.

Even if it was low on refrigerant charge, refrigerant doesn't just magically disappear- if it was low, it would be because the refrigerant leaked out...through a leak...a leak that would need to be repaired prior to properly evacuating and recharging the system.

And R134a is not "Freon". As Dennis has also pointed out, if you're putting cans of random stuff from discount auto parts stores into your system, then the ENTIRE contents of your air-conditioning system are now a hazardous material, one that is not going to be handled alongside of normal air-conditioning work. People put all sorts of strange stuff into air conditioning systems, often from cans labeled for use in air conditioning systems. Like butane, for example. The risks of an incident involving a substantial amount of butane under pressure, are pretty significant.

You don't have to be a "pro" to do it properly, but you do need to do it properly, so if you don't know what you're doing, then it would probably be best for you to not to mess with it.

I wouldn't just add refrigerant before checking the initial gauge reading. My Sprinter may be a lemon but I'm not. LOL Indeed there may be other things wrong with the main cab A/C.

"Freon".... I don't always get my terms correct. I made it clear though that per the manual R134a is my intended additive.

Thanks everyone for the discussion and the advice....teaching and learning is what this site is all about.

What are you hoping to see by getting a gauge reading?
Can you explain why a gauge reading taken will show say 200 psi and 20 low side one day and not the other ?

How does charge weight affect that or does it?
Does the charge weight need to be precise or not?

Can you do a full cool test to ensure you have charge it correctly and how can you determine the amount of non condensible gases in system by using the gauges. Is it just that simple hook up gauges?

You see that $6500 A/C equipment I mentioned (I have two of them,) de -skills the operation and automatically separates non condensibles from the closed system. I can ask anyone in my shop to hook it up and do its thing while we do something else.
All for about $75! Even checks for leaks little ones--very little ones you can find!
It base lines the system for that at all important full cool test and performance check--otherwise it won't work as you hope by bunging some refrigerant it it and hoping for the best!

Dennis

Lemon, I don’t want to disagree with Lindenengineering’s advice but I will give some advice based on my own experiences. It’s likely that you have pin holes in your condenser and are out of refrigerant. If the level is too low then the compressor won’t turn on. If it’s not turning on try putting in a can or two of R134a without stopleak and using a gage. If the compressor kicks on then your refrigerant was low. If you get it up to pressure and nothing happens you have bigger problems. Replacing the condenser and hoses isn’t difficult but is a PITA. After you get it back together and sealed up, take it to a shop and have them purge and charge the system. Air in the system can cause trouble and you do not have the equipment to pull it out. Potentially you can get working reliable A/C for around $250 if you do the work yourself

BrennWagon said:

Lemon, I don’t want to disagree with Lindenengineering’s advice but I will give some advice based on my own experiences. It’s likely that you have pin holes in your condenser and are out of refrigerant. If the level is too low then the compressor won’t turn on. If it’s not turning on try putting in a can or two of R134a without stopleak and using a gage. If the compressor kicks on then your refrigerant was low. If you get it up to pressure and nothing happens you have bigger problems. Replacing the condenser and hoses isn’t difficult but is a PITA. After you get it back together and sealed up, take it to a shop and have them purge and charge the system. Air in the system can cause trouble and you do not have the equipment to pull it out. Potentially you can get working reliable A/C for around $250 if you do the work yourself

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That's guessing.

Guessing is by far, the most expensive and time-consuming method to repair vehicles.

And you're guessing with some VERY expensive air conditioning components that HE will be having to pay for if they are destroyed.

And air conditioning systems are not "purged". If you don't know what you're talking about, you probably shouldn't be trying to give other people "advice". Especially when your "advice" directly contradicts the two subject matter experts here.

The Grand Tour said:

That's guessing.

Guessing is by far, the most expensive and time-consuming method to repair vehicles.

And you're guessing with some VERY expensive air conditioning components that HE will be having to pay for if they are destroyed.

And air conditioning systems are not "purged". If you don't know what you're talking about, you probably shouldn't be trying to give other people "advice". Especially when your "advice" directly contradicts the two subject matter experts here.

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If you crack open the system to replace parts air gets in. Call it what you will but it along with any old refrigerant and oil still needs to be removed and the system filled by a qualified shop, and if he’s using a gauge and no stop leak there’s really no harm he can do to the system that wasn’t preexisting unless he overpressurizes. I didn’t say it was definitely the case, only that it was my experience and that of just about everyone who’s had A/C issues in their T1N’s on this forum. It’s not guessing, it’s troubleshooting. Start with the most obvious and work your way back. Also, years ago I was certified to service vehicle A/C systems, so I do have some idea of which I speak.

The whole point of this forum is to help each other keep our aging vans running as well and as economically as possible. Helping someone avoid taking their van to a specialist for basic troubleshooting that he can do himself for a few dollars.

There’s plenty of A/C threads in the T1N section and probably 90% of them were resolved with a condenser. And as I said, if you get the system up to pressure and the compressor doesn’t kick in, there’s bigger problems. Bigger problems means stop and keep checking until you find the issue, not just throw parts at it

Edited to a kinder, gentler response...

The Grand Tour said:

Hard to believe you're not doing auto repair any more...

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A bad back ended my automotive career about 15 years ago.

I threw a bunch of disclaimers in my post and was working under the assumption that the owner is not a bonehead, which by everything I’ve seen he doesn’t seem to be.

You can be as smug as you’d like, but if you were local I’d bet you a case of beer that he’s got holes in his condenser. Since you’re not, I’ll just settle for waiting to find out the outcome of his problem and not being a jerk about it when I’m right and just keep working on my own van and keeping it running well on a budget with a mortgage, physical disabilities, and two young kids ??

I’m terribly sorry that I forgot that the term used to clear all the old refrigerant, oil, air, and whatever else is is the system is called evacuation, not purging. The English language is always fun.


Purge def. physically remove or expel (something) completely.

Evacuate def. remove air, water, or other contents from (a container).

Arrogant def. showing an offensive attitude of superiority

Wow what a debate!
Simply put I advised the OP to seek some professional advise based upon the circumstance such a training, cost etc etc.
Its a bit akin to my shop waste oil heater.

Yes we can fix it but its quicker & less of expensive job for me & my staff to simply call in a tech on waste oil heaters . Within 3 hours the heater is running,everyone toasty warm .
Cost, brain damage and time all play in to the game !
In many cases the end cost justifies the the fix & successful outcome.
Otherwise you can fanny around in some DIY errand which has a dubious outcome .
I can understand this DIY approach if you are halfway up the Kyber Pass and it needs to be rigged up by Ali Bashi , but in N/A its so cheap to establish a base line on an unknown system.
Dennis

lindenengineering said:

Yes I was reminded by all this the other day!
I needed a new flue damper for the shop waste oil heater.

After phoning about unsuccessfully i got this smart ass who wanted to tell me that the damper on all oil boilers are now all electrically controlled by a computer and that he would have to come and evaluate the existing installation.

So i just made one using some stuff kicking about in the shop back yard and a new 8" flue pipe insert .
Took me about 4 hours to fab it up with a oxy torch for some expert brazing of the pivot bushes I learned in me yuwt
Furnance is now working great!
Crazy
Dennis

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I hear you though Dennis. Things can get expensive if you don't know when to stop or have a baseline understanding of what you are doing.

And - you (pro shops) have a stong interest in not letting your recovery machines get contaminated by god knows what kind of crap may be in a DIY hack a whack system.

Also always environmentally good to recover the R134A (not normally done by the DIYer) - although I'd feel more strongly about this if they didn't continue to sell the R134A duster sprayers at the office supply stores.

Yes exactly an up the Kyber Pass problem in that incidence.
And the service department wants it towed from Jalalabad to Ankara to fix it.

But in this case its more like situation "B" seen in letters to the editor of the AJ Times.
Rashid to Ali (translated from Urdu) about glow plug problem!

Rashid you know in America they have these things called American dollars, With these things you can do everything cheaply most cheaply.
Allah be praised what a wonderful place this America.
Dennis